[email protected]

I am new to the group. I have been unschooling my two sons, age 13 and
16 for two years. My 16 year old was diagnosed with having dyslexia and
then we were told he was bipolar. This was while he was attending public
school. Each year was a nightmare. Since he has been taught at home - or
untaught - he is 98% healthier. We were told he does not have bipolar.
It was the constant stress that was driving him mad. His entire manner
has changed. The clothes he wears are brighter. He lost 50 pounds, etc.
I am extraordinarily happy that he is doing so much better. My 13 year
old has matured so much that people think he is 17. He actually wants to
learn for the sake of knowing. He questions everything and learns that
way.
I think public school causes much more damage, in general, than it helps
our society. I think the damage to the child continues into adulthood.
That is my opinion. I think it is incredibly sad. Like anything else
that is outside the norm for the time, it has taken us time to unprogram
and get used to unschooling. Along with redirecting our thought
processes we have opened up to much more of life in general. We are
unlabelled now and loving it!
Michele



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon and Rue Kream

Hi Michele - I 'recognize' you from the New England group. Nice to see you
here :0). ~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Renee

Hello, Im a newbie to the forum,
I have been homeschooling my son since he was 4, I was looking at the
unschooling approach but Im afraid, :( We have always used work books,
but now that he is in 3rd grade, well he seems to hate most of them :(
Some he seems to have trouble with like 3rd grade math has
multiplication in it and he is just not ready for that, they seem to
have stuff he just isnt ready for, it seems like with the books they
are rushing him through the stuff just like public school does and
well while he still enjoys homeschooling i dont want the books to put
him off learingmso I thought unschooling, but I have no clue on where
to start or how,
lately i put the books on the shelf, and he does things on his own
like reading,writing,drawing,computer,gardening and he seems to enjoy
it when no books are involved.
Oh did i say he HATED the grammer book, although he loves the phonics
book,he loves hearing stories about history and he does enjoy his
presidential book,he loves to read and discuss the story he just
read,he dont mind printing but getting him to do cursive thats a
battle and i dont want that.
he likes math but doesnt does that make sence,
he loves art,drawing,painting. he loves to help cook also
ok im babbling, does any one have any suggestions please

Deb

Stop and consider the why of each of those things you've mentioned:
why is <fill in whichever> important? is it important in life or only
in school? is it important to know now or can it be learned later?

For example: why is it important to be able to pick out a gerund
versus a participle? is it important in life or just in school? must
it be learned now or can it be learned later/when needed?

Sounds like he loves numbers and patterns and all the cool number
related stuff around us but hates the tight little boxes of schoolbook
written arithmetic.

What should you do? Facilitate what he loves, what brings joy into
your household, and seek out things that bring enjoyment to yourself
as well (what do you love to do?).

--Deb

Beth Cugal

One way for kids (unschooled or not) to get plenty of math practice is by playing games. My son HATES formal instruction in math, but he is practically addicted to the math arcade on funbrain.com, and we just got him a new math cd for the computer called Math Blaster, which he asked "permission" to play this morning (as if...). I have never been good at basic math myself, so it is with great relief that I see him mastering basic facts, which DO make real life easier.

Renee <countrycottage10@...> wrote: Hello, Im a newbie to the forum,
I have been homeschooling my son since he was 4, I was looking at the
unschooling approach but Im afraid, :( We have always used work books,
but now that he is in 3rd grade, well he seems to hate most of them :(
Some he seems to have trouble with like 3rd grade math has
multiplication in it and he is just not ready for that, they seem to
have stuff he just isnt ready for, it seems like with the books they
are rushing him through the stuff just like public school does and
well while he still enjoys homeschooling i dont want the books to put
him off learingmso I thought unschooling, but I have no clue on where
to start or how,
lately i put the books on the shelf, and he does things on his own
like reading,writing,drawing,computer,gardening and he seems to enjoy
it when no books are involved.
Oh did i say he HATED the grammer book, although he loves the phonics
book,he loves hearing stories about history and he does enjoy his
presidential book,he loves to read and discuss the story he just
read,he dont mind printing but getting him to do cursive thats a
battle and i dont want that.
he likes math but doesnt does that make sence,
he loves art,drawing,painting. he loves to help cook also
ok im babbling, does any one have any suggestions please








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 4/4/06, Renee <countrycottage10@...> wrote:
>
> We have always used work books,
> but now that he is in 3rd grade, well he seems to hate most of them :(
> Some he seems to have trouble with like 3rd grade math has
> multiplication in it and he is just not ready for that, they seem to
> have stuff he just isnt ready for, it seems like with the books they
> are rushing him through the stuff just like public school does


That's because the majority of curricula marketers are still using public
school as the basis for their curriculum. It's the "standard." How do the
majority of homeschoolers measure their children's "progress?" They use the
public school measuring stick. "Jenny is ahead in reading but on grade
level in mathematics." "Matt is just doing 6th grade science, 5th grade
math and reading on a 9th grade level." I hear those standards all the time
as if being ahead of or behind public school is good or bad.

Throw out the workbooks. It seems to be only causing stress and how is he
ever going to learn anything if he loathes doing it? Let him discover his
world and all the other things will come around.





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara

Hi: I am new to this list. I have two daughters, 7 and 10 yo, that you
could say I am unschooling, though that was never my goal, it just happened
as I adjusted to meet their needs and interests. You should check out this
link. It advocates delaying abstract math and not using workbooks until kids
are at least 11 years old.

http://wol.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk/sanjoy/benezet/

Best wishes, Cara B




On 4/4/06 11:38 PM, "Renee" <countrycottage10@...> wrote:

> Hello, Im a newbie to the forum,
> I have been homeschooling my son since he was 4, I was looking at the
> unschooling approach but Im afraid, :( We have always used work books,
> but now that he is in 3rd grade, well he seems to hate most of them :(
> Some he seems to have trouble with like 3rd grade math has
> multiplication in it and he is just not ready for that, they seem to
> have stuff he just isnt ready for, it seems like with the books they
> are rushing him through the stuff just like public school does and
> well while he still enjoys homeschooling i dont want the books to put
> him off learingmso I thought unschooling, but I have no clue on where
> to start or how,
> lately i put the books on the shelf, and he does things on his own
> like reading,writing,drawing,computer,gardening and he seems to enjoy
> it when no books are involved.
> Oh did i say he HATED the grammer book, although he loves the phonics
> book,he loves hearing stories about history and he does enjoy his
> presidential book,he loves to read and discuss the story he just
> read,he dont mind printing but getting him to do cursive thats a
> battle and i dont want that.
> he likes math but doesnt does that make sence,
> he loves art,drawing,painting. he loves to help cook also
> ok im babbling, does any one have any suggestions please
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "unschoolingbasics
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics> " on the web.
> *
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> * [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
> *
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>ok im babbling, does any one have any suggestions please>>

Yes. My suggestion is to stop and take a breath. :o) You don't need to be afraid of unschooling. What you need to be afraid of is continuing down the path of all this school at home. You don't need it. He doesn't need it.

So take a breath and take a moment to look at your son. What does he love? What is he naturally good at? What does he enjoy doing? Where does he like to go and do? Focus on those things and the learning will happen. It won't be on a school's schedule but that's okay. He's NOT in school.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Renee" <countrycottage10@...>

thisismaggiesemailaddress

Hi,

I'm a sahm of 4 and new to home/unschooling. I have 3 daughter's ages
1yr, 3yr and 10yrs and a son age 8. I hope to homeschool all of them.

I was hoping that it would be ok to ask a few questions and for a bit
of advice.

I pulled my 10yr old daughter out of school this year in January. In
my state, (FL) I have to keep a log of all activities she does and
any materials used as well as samples of her work for homeschooling.

This seemed simple enough, however my daughter gives me nothing to
record. When she was in School she refused to do any work. After a 2
month break at home she still refused too do anything even resembling
school work. She won't even read a book for enjoyment. (hates to
read) She will just sit there and out right refuse. She can not be
moved. Nothing motivates her and belive me we've tried. She keeps
saying there is nothing she likes.

I decided to look into learning about unschooling and trying that
instead. Maybe if she followed her own interest she'd learn something
from that and I could just record what she did from day to day in a
log. I thought if she did any projects I could save them and
hopefully meet the requirements that way for the state.

NO Go. She is unmotivated to do anything, nothing at all. She will
stay on a computer from sun up too sun down and that's it. I don't
have a problem with the computer. She may learn something that way.
However she will not share with me what she is doing so I can record
what she learns. I even tried giving her a notebook so she could
write down what she learns and she won't. No projects, no jornal
writings, no nothing. (oh btw, we have net nanny and a ton of other
programs on the computer so she is prevented from going on
unappropriate sites)

She has no learning problems and is quite bright. She does have an
interest..computers, she just won't share that with me and it's her
only interest.

My question is how do I meet state requirements if I can't keep a log
because of my daughter's unwillingness? How do I get her interested
in doing anything or at the very least share with me what she does on
the computer. She tells me I don't have the right too know. I don't
belive she's doing anything wrong. She just feels (and has told me)
that she should have the same rights as adults, that her friends
parents don't do things with them and can do what they want whenever.

I'm not having problems with her. She just feels she's right and I'm
wrong and she's not going to help me in anyway. I told her about the
homeschool laws and asked for her help. She told me I was lying.
(yes, I showed her the law itself, she didn't understand it and still
called me a lier. Anyone know a site that spells out the law in
easier language?)

She was very happy when we took her out to homeschool and says she
does Not want to go back to public school.

Any ideas on how I can unschool an unmotivated child unwilling to
share anything with me so I can record it in log? I'm not trying to
violate her space, just trying too do what the law requires.

Any advice, thoughs, tips, etc would be very welcomed.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope everyone has a
good day.

Anne

Elissa Jill Cleaveland

Any ideas on how I can unschool an unmotivated child unwilling to
share anything with me so I can record it in log?
*********
Throw out the log.
Seriously.
From what I understand, Florida has an umbrella school option that others here will be better able to guide you towards, in which a log is not necessary.

It sounds to me like she is well aware of what she needs right now, which is to be left alone when it comes to "learning". She needs far more than just two months to deschool.
Let her Be, offer fun exciting things to do, while finding some things to interest yourself in.
Start here:
It is Summer Vacation.
Read about deschooling, Get a copy of the Teenage Liberation Handbook and read that yourself. Check the unschooling lists every morning (or whenever you tend to do your email) and READ. Go back through the archives and see what people have had to say. I guarentee (sp?) that you will find answers to your questions right there in the older posts.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

I sent you information about Florida Unschoolers, offlist.

-pam

On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:47 AM, thisismaggiesemailaddress wrote:

> I pulled my 10yr old daughter out of school this year in January. In
> my state, (FL) I have to keep a log of all activities she does and
> any materials used as well as samples of her work for homeschooling.

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 6/14/06, thisismaggiesemailaddress
<thisismaggiesemailaddress@...> wrote:
> I pulled my 10yr old daughter out of school this year in January. In
> my state, (FL) I have to keep a log of all activities she does and
> any materials used as well as samples of her work for homeschooling.

That's only ONE option in Florida. We also can join a "private" or
"600" school. I use AEI (alternative education institute) and for $15
a kid and turning in your attendance that's all that is required!
Seriously, it is that easy. Why keep a portfolio and deal with
schoolish-thinking evaluators when you don't have to? I'm of the mind
that as long as I am not causing physical harm, abusing or neglecting
my child then the government should keep its nose out of my home. My
children are growing and thriving and learning everyday! I don't need
an evaluator telling me so!

> Nothing motivates her and belive me we've tried. She keeps
> saying there is nothing she likes.

She's 10, so she's been in school for half her life? Back off, stay
backed off and give her room. Meanwhile (and this may seem
contradictory but it isn't) get involved in what SHE is doing.
Whether it is playing games, watching tv, dancing to music, playing on
the computer, whatever - be involved in it. Eventually she is going
to start wanting to expand or change her interests and want more
information and that is when it will be OK to offer her books or other
materials - as long as it doesn't resemble school.

>
> I decided to look into learning about unschooling and trying that
> instead. Maybe if she followed her own interest she'd learn something
> from that and I could just record what she did from day to day in a
> log. I thought if she did any projects I could save them and
> hopefully meet the requirements that way for the state.

Unschooling (or Radical Unschooling which most of us do) doesn't
resemble anything at all like school. I believe what you may have
been doing was "non-curricular studies." Quite different from
unschooling. Go read some of the articles at
http://www.sandradodd.com (click on unschooling - although I really
like all of her website! :-) )

>
> NO Go. She is unmotivated to do anything, nothing at all. She will
> stay on a computer from sun up too sun down and that's it. I don't
> have a problem with the computer. She may learn something that way.
> However she will not share with me what she is doing so I can record
> what she learns.

Well, if you are truly interested you can go to your computer's web
browser and click on the History button. On IE it's a small clock
icon up above the navigation bar. But she IS motivated to do
something and that is computer. Fine. Let her have her computer.
And in all honesty most kids aren't interested in "innapropriate
websites" anyway and usually happen on them when they mistype a URL
(Be careful when typing "disney" we've run into some pretty, um,
interesting websites that way!) LOL!! Until she can trust that you
aren't going to force anything she is interested into school work she
is not going to share with you.


>
> She has no learning problems and is quite bright. She does have an
> interest..computers, she just won't share that with me and it's her
> only interest.

Actually I think that her interest are the places she is going on the
computer - not the computer itself. The computer is just a tool, a
means to get to that which she is interested in.

>
> My question is how do I meet state requirements if I can't keep a log
> because of my daughter's unwillingness?

Join a 600 school and forget about "state requirementst."

>How do I get her interested
> in doing anything or at the very least share with me what she does on
> the computer. She tells me I don't have the right too know.

It sounds like you need to regain her trust. Until she knows you are
going to give her room, not judge what she is doing and not turn it
into an educational lesson she is not going to open up to you.

>
> I'm not having problems with her. She just feels she's right and I'm
> wrong and she's not going to help me in anyway. I told her about the
> homeschool laws and asked for her help. She told me I was lying.

Well, you weren't lying, but you didn't have all the information
available to you! :)

> (yes, I showed her the law itself, she didn't understand it and still
> called me a lier. Anyone know a site that spells out the law in
> easier language?)

http://www.fpea.com/Guide/index/css/Guide.html This has information
on umbrella schools. This website also has information on the other
avenues for homeschooling. Although IMNSHO why anyone would want to
follow the other paths is beyond me!




--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: thisismaggiesemailaddress <thisismaggiesemailaddress@...>


NO Go. She is unmotivated to do anything, nothing at all. She will
stay on a computer from sun up too sun down and that's it.

-=-=-=-

So, she IS motivated; just not to do anything *you* approve of.

-=-=-=-=-

I don't have a problem with the computer.

--=-=-

Maybe a *little* one? <g>

-=-=-=-

She may learn something that way.

-=-=-=-

I think she definitely will.

-=-=-=--

She has no learning problems and is quite bright. She does have an
interest..computers, she just won't share that with me and it's her
only interest.

-=-=-=-

Is there a trust issue? *Why* won't she share with you?

-=-=-=-=-

My question is how do I meet state requirements if I can't keep a log
because of my daughter's unwillingness?

-=-=-=-

I think you've been directed to a FL site so that you now know this
isn't your only avenue.

-=-=-=-=-

She just feels (and has told me)
that she should have the same rights as adults, that her friends
parents don't do things with them and can do what they want whenever.

-=-=-=-=-

I'm willing to bet that, unless she has a bunch of radical unschooling
friends, her friends are NOT allowed to do what they want whenever! <g>
And if they *are* all radically unschooled, then their parents do a LOT
of things with them!

-=-=-=-

I'm not having problems with her. She just feels she's right and I'm
wrong and she's not going to help me in anyway. I told her about the
homeschool laws and asked for her help. She told me I was lying.
(yes, I showed her the law itself, she didn't understand it and still
called me a lier. Anyone know a site that spells out the law in
easier language?)

-=-=-=-

Again, you've been given the FL options, so that's not an issue. But
*why* does she feel she shouldn't help you out? ANd why would she call
you a liar?

-=-=-=-=-

She was very happy when we took her out to homeschool and says she
does Not want to go back to public school.

-=-=-=-

If she's happy, she should *want* to help out.

I don't understand this. She LIKES being out of school, but she won't
do anything to help keep her out of school?

What else is going on?

-=-=-=-=-

Any ideas on how I can unschool an unmotivated child unwilling to
share anything with me so I can record it in log? I'm not trying to
violate her space, just trying too do what the law requires.

-=-=-=-=-

*She* feels you're violating her space. Or something. There's
something else going on.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

hsmom2luge

Hello!
I am a hsing mama to 3 kiddos,
dd 10, dd 5, ds 4. I am considering unschooling for our family.
We have always hsed, put together our own curric., and been
willing to delve into whatever their interest is at the time.
I have always been interested in unschooling, but haven't felt secure
enought to take the plunge.
But,we'removing nearly 200 miles north in a few weeks and while
we are going through this life-change, "school" needs to take a back
burner. Perhaps it will be permanent.
I look forward to gleening info from you all,
Kristin

Melissa

it'll be good! we started seriously unschooling when I was put on
bedrest. it's much easier when life takes that choice away.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Jul 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, hsmom2luge wrote:

> Hello!
> I am a hsing mama to 3 kiddos,
> dd 10, dd 5, ds 4. I am considering unschooling for our family.
> We have always hsed, put together our own curric., and been
> willing to delve into whatever their interest is at the time.
> I have always been interested in unschooling, but haven't felt secure
> enought to take the plunge.
> But,we'removing nearly 200 miles north in a few weeks and while
> we are going through this life-change, "school" needs to take a back
> burner. Perhaps it will be permanent.
> I look forward to gleening info from you all,
> Kristin
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dory

--- Thanks, Michelle, for the information. I'm thinking of using
them for next year. The fee is now $25 for registration. dory


In [email protected], "Michelle/Melbrigða"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>
> On 6/14/06, thisismaggiesemailaddress
> <thisismaggiesemailaddress@...> wrote:
> > I pulled my 10yr old daughter out of school this year in January.
In
> > my state, (FL) I have to keep a log of all activities she does and
> > any materials used as well as samples of her work for
homeschooling.
>
> That's only ONE option in Florida. We also can join a "private" or
> "600" school. I use AEI (alternative education institute) and for
$15
> a kid and turning in your attendance that's all that is required!
> Seriously, it is that easy. Why keep a portfolio and deal with
> schoolish-thinking evaluators when you don't have to? I'm of the
mind
> that as long as I am not causing physical harm, abusing or
neglecting
> my child then the government should keep its nose out of my home.
My
> children are growing and thriving and learning everyday! I don't
need
> an evaluator telling me so!
>
> > Nothing motivates her and belive me we've tried. She keeps
> > saying there is nothing she likes.
>
> She's 10, so she's been in school for half her life? Back off, stay
> backed off and give her room. Meanwhile (and this may seem
> contradictory but it isn't) get involved in what SHE is doing.
> Whether it is playing games, watching tv, dancing to music, playing
on
> the computer, whatever - be involved in it. Eventually she is going
> to start wanting to expand or change her interests and want more
> information and that is when it will be OK to offer her books or
other
> materials - as long as it doesn't resemble school.
>
> >
> > I decided to look into learning about unschooling and trying that
> > instead. Maybe if she followed her own interest she'd learn
something
> > from that and I could just record what she did from day to day in
a
> > log. I thought if she did any projects I could save them and
> > hopefully meet the requirements that way for the state.
>
> Unschooling (or Radical Unschooling which most of us do) doesn't
> resemble anything at all like school. I believe what you may have
> been doing was "non-curricular studies." Quite different from
> unschooling. Go read some of the articles at
> http://www.sandradodd.com (click on unschooling - although I really
> like all of her website! :-) )
>
> >
> > NO Go. She is unmotivated to do anything, nothing at all. She will
> > stay on a computer from sun up too sun down and that's it. I don't
> > have a problem with the computer. She may learn something that
way.
> > However she will not share with me what she is doing so I can
record
> > what she learns.
>
> Well, if you are truly interested you can go to your computer's web
> browser and click on the History button. On IE it's a small clock
> icon up above the navigation bar. But she IS motivated to do
> something and that is computer. Fine. Let her have her computer.
> And in all honesty most kids aren't interested in "innapropriate
> websites" anyway and usually happen on them when they mistype a URL
> (Be careful when typing "disney" we've run into some pretty, um,
> interesting websites that way!) LOL!! Until she can trust that you
> aren't going to force anything she is interested into school work
she
> is not going to share with you.
>
>
> >
> > She has no learning problems and is quite bright. She does have an
> > interest..computers, she just won't share that with me and it's
her
> > only interest.
>
> Actually I think that her interest are the places she is going on
the
> computer - not the computer itself. The computer is just a tool, a
> means to get to that which she is interested in.
>
> >
> > My question is how do I meet state requirements if I can't keep a
log
> > because of my daughter's unwillingness?
>
> Join a 600 school and forget about "state requirementst."
>
> >How do I get her interested
> > in doing anything or at the very least share with me what she
does on
> > the computer. She tells me I don't have the right too know.
>
> It sounds like you need to regain her trust. Until she knows you
are
> going to give her room, not judge what she is doing and not turn it
> into an educational lesson she is not going to open up to you.
>
> >
> > I'm not having problems with her. She just feels she's right and
I'm
> > wrong and she's not going to help me in anyway. I told her about
the
> > homeschool laws and asked for her help. She told me I was lying.
>
> Well, you weren't lying, but you didn't have all the information
> available to you! :)
>
> > (yes, I showed her the law itself, she didn't understand it and
still
> > called me a lier. Anyone know a site that spells out the law in
> > easier language?)
>
> http://www.fpea.com/Guide/index/css/Guide.html This has information
> on umbrella schools. This website also has information on the other
> avenues for homeschooling. Although IMNSHO why anyone would want to
> follow the other paths is beyond me!
>
>
>
>
> --
> Michelle
> aka Melbrigða
> http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
> [email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
>