My parents worry
Sarah Thompson
My parents worry about my children's "basic" skills, the writing and math, especially. With the exception of a few irritating moments ("I wish YOU went to that wonderful school!" to my son), they do not undermine my parenting. I appreciate that they make an effort to trust and respect unschooling, and I want to be equally trusting and respectful in responding to their concerns. When I try to point to the learning and the growth, and when I tell them where I gain confidence and reassurance (mostly in stories from adults and teens who were unschooled), they remain unconvinced.
I sent my dad the sandradodd.com page on math, but I'm wondering what else might be good to send them.
Sarah
Sandra Dodd
The best thing to send a parent is a paper copy of Pam Laricchia’s “Free to Learn.”
Ask them to read it, and you could discuss it with them.
If they start a conversation about school or math or any such thing, all you need to say is “Did you finish that book?”
If the answer is no, ask them to read the book.
If they answer were to have been yes, they probably wouldn’t have asked the question.
Don’t send them “Free to Live,” because that’s the stuff that will flip parents out. Go with the learning first.
My Big Book of Unschooling isn’t good to give grandparents. It’s really for parents who already do want to unschool, or already are and want to do it btter.
I’ve never seen a better thing that that book of Pam’s.
There’s also a book for grandparents of unschoolers that might be a good second book for them, after a while.
Sandra
Ask them to read it, and you could discuss it with them.
If they start a conversation about school or math or any such thing, all you need to say is “Did you finish that book?”
If the answer is no, ask them to read the book.
If they answer were to have been yes, they probably wouldn’t have asked the question.
Don’t send them “Free to Live,” because that’s the stuff that will flip parents out. Go with the learning first.
My Big Book of Unschooling isn’t good to give grandparents. It’s really for parents who already do want to unschool, or already are and want to do it btter.
I’ve never seen a better thing that that book of Pam’s.
There’s also a book for grandparents of unschoolers that might be a good second book for them, after a while.
Sandra
Jo Isaac
==My parents worry about my children's "basic" skills, the writing and math, especially.==
How do they know what level their 'basic' skills are? My son doesn't handwrite, but my MIL doesn't know that...He didn't read until he was 9, but my Dad didn't know that - even after staying with them for 3 weeks. I covered for him...the grandparents don't
know if he can or can't do multiplication or knows his times tables...those are situations we make sure we don't get in to.
But - maybe it is too late for that with your parents? If so, get better, and more confident, in explaining your children's interests in schooly terms, so that your parents *aren't* worried.
I would suggest stopping talking about unschooling at all, to the point where maybe (hopefully) they forget you ever mentioned such a crazy idea.
If you really feel like you need to give them thing - give them mainstream resources - there is a good Ted Talk from a maths teacher that might help -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyowJZxrtbg&vl=en
If they prefer to read - Lockhearts Lament is great: https://www.maa.org/external_archive/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf
Jo
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Sarah Thompson thompsonisland@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]>
Sent: 18 June 2017 14:30
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] My parents worry
Sent: 18 June 2017 14:30
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] My parents worry
My parents worry about my children's "basic" skills, the writing and math, especially. With the exception of a few irritating moments ("I wish YOU went to that wonderful school!" to my son), they do not undermine my parenting. I appreciate that
they make an effort to trust and respect unschooling, and I want to be equally trusting and respectful in responding to their concerns. When I try to point to the learning and the growth, and when I tell them where I gain confidence and reassurance (mostly
in stories from adults and teens who were unschooled), they remain unconvinced.
I sent my dad the
sandradodd.com page on math, but I'm wondering what else might be good to send them.
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sandradodd.com
The main entrance to the burgeoning website of Sandra Dodd
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Sarah
Sarah Thompson
I think they are genuinely interested. I *think* they want to trust it, but they worry, because it's weird. I show them all the amazing things and they are impressed. But then my dad says, "you need algebra. You need to be able to write," to me, and yes, he loves to make cards and posters so they have seen his writing. I feel like, if I could demonstrate that these things really do come in their good time, and that the deeper benefits of unschooling eclipse memorized multiplication tables, they would be amenable to that.
There was a time when I had the attitude that I would do whatever I do and they would have to deal with it. But I'm over that. I see why creating harmony and peace involves respecting them, as well. I trust that I can find common ground here, if I apply myself.
Sarah
Sandra Dodd
Another kind thing to do would be to say “I’ll think about that” if your parents say something that you have thought much about.
And “If this doesn’t work out, the schools will still be there,” and say it nicely.
http://sandradodd.com/relatives
and there are links from there, too.
Sandra
And “If this doesn’t work out, the schools will still be there,” and say it nicely.
http://sandradodd.com/relatives
and there are links from there, too.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
i came across an obscure page today. It’s deeper than some, but might yield a clue or two about why other people resist looking too calmly at what we’re doing.
I’ll offer it up in another discussion at facebook, about losing friends as unschooling takes hold.
http://sandradodd.com/issues/choice
The writing that’s there now is mine—quotes from five places, similar theme, about the problem with placing options where there used to only be “have to” and “no choice.”
If it’s not useful, that won’t hurt my feelings. :-)
Sandra
I’ll offer it up in another discussion at facebook, about losing friends as unschooling takes hold.
http://sandradodd.com/issues/choice
The writing that’s there now is mine—quotes from five places, similar theme, about the problem with placing options where there used to only be “have to” and “no choice.”
If it’s not useful, that won’t hurt my feelings. :-)
Sandra
Alex & Brian Polikowsky
I think what could help your parents is to give them brag-worthy material!Grandparents are all about bragging rights and need some good information they can use when talking to others!!Maybe a blog with very interesting things you guys do or lean. Keep the jargon " educationese ".Or just use many cool pictures and few words!Or just give them some short snippets and ammunition every time you talk to them!Something like:"Little Joe can bake a cake all by himself!! ""Little Ann is so good at building in Minecraft! She is an engineer and architect !! Her houses are strong stylish!""Johnny knows so much about the cones inside people and animals eyes and was telling me ..."( those examples all were some I gave my Mother in Law so she could brag about the kids!)Maybe that will ease their mind and give them what they want! Grandparents really love to talk about what grandkids are doing!Alex
nikkizavitz@...
I bought 2 copies of Free to Learn by Pam Laracchia and 2 copies of Dear Grandma: your Grandkids are Unschoolers by Shelia Baronaski and gave both sets of grandparents them as gifts. Pam Laracchia also interviews Shelia on one of her podcasts, that's how I found out about the book, which is a great episode to listen to.
My mother in law was concerned about what we were doing, and didn't really quite understand it. She also, like most people, "is made of school" (Sandra's phrase that I love!) and raised 10 children and put them all through the school system, so I think she never really knew what to ask about my children and often had trouble connecting with them/us, because we do things so differently than she is used to. She read the Dear Grandma book in one night and she came to me the very next day chatty and positive and even saying she wished she had know about Unschooling when her kids were young. I think those books opened the door for all of us to start being able to talk openly about what we are doing because they now have some background on the lifestyle. Without it there was fear, ignorance and assumptions.
My mother in law was concerned about what we were doing, and didn't really quite understand it. She also, like most people, "is made of school" (Sandra's phrase that I love!) and raised 10 children and put them all through the school system, so I think she never really knew what to ask about my children and often had trouble connecting with them/us, because we do things so differently than she is used to. She read the Dear Grandma book in one night and she came to me the very next day chatty and positive and even saying she wished she had know about Unschooling when her kids were young. I think those books opened the door for all of us to start being able to talk openly about what we are doing because they now have some background on the lifestyle. Without it there was fear, ignorance and assumptions.
Sarah Thompson
This is all really helpful. I realize that one thing I do is refuse to talk about unschooling in schooly ways, and if I get over myself about it and say, " Wallace made a times table chart last week!" (Which is true) or "Wallace is saving up for a WiiU and he used algebra to calculate that if he mows x lawns, plus allowance, plus his current capital, he'll have enough by y" they will have the information translated into their language and I won't have to overcome the "unschooling language-barrier."
My dad said to me, "these things are important to me. How can I help?" To me, that is an incredibly gracious and open way of addressing things, and it merits and equally gracious response.
Sarah
Sarah Thompson
It's challenging to deschool myself by changing the language in my head, AND reschool the kids' activities for the benefit of communication.
Judy W
My sons are 9 and 11, and they've never been to school. I've had similar experiences and comments from my parents. When my boys were 4 and 6, and we were new unschoolers, my parents sat me down and asked me what would happen to my boys if "something happened" to me. Back then, I was more defensive and less agile at deflecting with a bit of humor than I am now. I pointed out that (1) they have a dad (hello, did you forget the existence of their very involved father/my husband?); (2) I'm not going to raise my kids in fear that I'm going to die while they're still young, (3) they can always go to school; and (4) if my husband and/or I were to die and they had to go to school, they'd have more serious things to deal with than whether they were "behind" grade level (and they'd eventually catch up).
Like I said, I was more defensive back then. Now, I mostly avoid using the term "unschooling" and stick with homeschooling.
But, yes, my mom has noticed some of the things my boys don't (yet) do. Writing (by hand) in particular. A few months ago, she asked me if my older son "knows he'll have to sign his name if he wants to get a driver license"...something he's mentioned he's looking forward to. Instead of getting defensive and pointing out to her he has another 4-1/2 years before he'd even be old enough to do so, I said, "Yeah, in fact, the other day we were talking about how he'll need to be able to write enough to be able to fill out a job application, when the time comes, because not everything is (or will be) on-line, and to make notes and sign-off on things at work if there are paper checklists and such." I didn't make that up...thankfully, we had recently chatted casually about this...and I was able to keep it light and sound even a bit excited about the future (as opposed to negative and worried that this will be some huge burden he'll have to eventually face). I think my mom was more satisfied that I was doing *my* job as his mother (seeing to it that he's doing what he's *supposed to* be) than whether my son will eventually learn this skill. ;-)
I agree with Sandra's suggestions about Pam L's "Free to Learn" book, especially if your parents are inclined to read it. Some parents won't really read what you send them. I used to send my mom bits to read that I thought would help put her mind at ease. She was always polite and thanked me, but she would report back to me as though she were giving me a book report to prove she'd done the "reading assignment," with no indication of any insight gained. That frustrated me. And it also seemed to keep stirring the pot rather than allowing things to relax naturally.
Overall, things have relaxed for us in terms of comments. My dad is gone now, but before he died, he really enjoyed being with and joking around with my sons. If he was worried about their academic futures, it doesn't matter now. And as my mom is getting older, it's getting easier *for me* to accept that she has her own point-of-view that doesn't have to match up with mine.
Sandra Dodd
-=- I realize that one thing I do is refuse to talk about unschooling in schooly ways, and if I get over myself about it and say, " Wallace made a times table chart last week!" (Which is true) or "Wallace is saving up for a WiiU and he used algebra to calculate that if he mows x lawns, plus allowance, plus his current capital, he'll have enough by y" they will have the information translated into their language and I won't have to overcome the "unschooling language-barrier.” -=-
When I told stories like that, I would add, “But I didn’t *say* “algebra” to them, I’m just telling you the story.”
Another way to help other adults chill out is to ask them (not when kids around, and in as nice a way as possible) where they’ve used algebra themselves, lately, in real life. They might have an answer. If so, cool. It will be something practical. Maybe about utility bills, or adjusting a woodworking pattern or something. Keep it in mind for the future. :-) You might ask them if they could still have figured those things out other ways. it doesn’t need to be a conversation with a big conclusing, just a little information for both sides. Let it go for the moment; keep it for longterm.
Sandra
When I told stories like that, I would add, “But I didn’t *say* “algebra” to them, I’m just telling you the story.”
Another way to help other adults chill out is to ask them (not when kids around, and in as nice a way as possible) where they’ve used algebra themselves, lately, in real life. They might have an answer. If so, cool. It will be something practical. Maybe about utility bills, or adjusting a woodworking pattern or something. Keep it in mind for the future. :-) You might ask them if they could still have figured those things out other ways. it doesn’t need to be a conversation with a big conclusing, just a little information for both sides. Let it go for the moment; keep it for longterm.
Sandra
Kelly Callahan
It helps me to remember how long it took me to move past different stages of worry...how much reading, thinking, watching, reading... even giving one or two books to a grandparent doesn't equal the amount of time it takes one to deschool. And I continue to do that daily reading and listening- to reinforce and bolster and go deeper.
It sounds like you are compassionate to their position, but it might shift your expectations to think about that difference. And, I know I had to do some mental conversions of unschool to school initially to ease off some of my own worry.
My own mother borrowed Sandra's book, and that did help her. I know there are aspects of unschooling that she can't swallow, but she doesn't bring them up. I think she can see how committed Kevin and I are, and she trusts us so she goes along with this crazy thing we do.
For us it's been more about an extension of trust... i know my parents and my in-laws trust us- they cannot entirely trust this approach. They don't have enough first hand experience, despite the time they spend with the kids. But they know us to deeply love and support our kids and not put them in danger or harm, and we have been so thorough in our choices--- back in those control days when they wished we would lighten up!! -- that I think they have thought Ok... it's not worth pushing against.
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 8:46 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:-=- I realize that one thing I do is refuse to talk about unschooling in schooly ways, and if I get over myself about it and say, " Wallace made a times table chart last week!" (Which is true) or "Wallace is saving up for a WiiU and he used algebra to calculate that if he mows x lawns, plus allowance, plus his current capital, he'll have enough by y" they will have the information translated into their language and I won't have to overcome the "unschooling language-barrier.” -=-
When I told stories like that, I would add, “But I didn’t *say* “algebra” to them, I’m just telling you the story.”
Another way to help other adults chill out is to ask them (not when kids around, and in as nice a way as possible) where they’ve used algebra themselves, lately, in real life. They might have an answer. If so, cool. It will be something practical. Maybe about utility bills, or adjusting a woodworking pattern or something. Keep it in mind for the future. :-) You might ask them if they could still have figured those things out other ways. it doesn’t need to be a conversation with a big conclusing, just a little information for both sides. Let it go for the moment; keep it for longterm.
Sandra
--Kelly Callahan CCHConcentric Healing Classical Homeopathy(207) 691-6798
Sandra Dodd
-=-
"Little Joe can bake a cake all by himself!! "
"Little Ann is so good at building in Minecraft! She is an engineer and architect !! Her houses are strong stylish!”-=-
(from Alex)
Brags I used for my kids, for older relatives:
When kids aren’t getting along at our park meet-ups, Kirby and Sara (Cordova, the oldest of the other organizer’s set of three kids) defuse and make peace. They’re really good at it.
Marty could roller skate the day I bought him Fisher Price skates, so the next day we got him real roller blades, and he skated away.
By the time Holly came along the relatives were more confidence already, so I don’t remember bragging about Holly as much. But when she was 16, she wanted to work in a flower shop near here, and couldn’t figure out how to apply. I wrote a letter for her to take over there saying she was homeschooled and great with making things like flower fairies (maybe I sent photos with it, I don’t remember), and if the owner would be willing to let her help out during an upcoming busy season (May: Mother’s Day, high school proms, Memorial Day), I would be willing to pay them and it could be school credit for her.
Instead they hired her. So that was bragging (me to the store owner) that led to another brag (for the relatives), but she was nearly grown by then.
Sandra
"Little Joe can bake a cake all by himself!! "
"Little Ann is so good at building in Minecraft! She is an engineer and architect !! Her houses are strong stylish!”-=-
(from Alex)
Brags I used for my kids, for older relatives:
When kids aren’t getting along at our park meet-ups, Kirby and Sara (Cordova, the oldest of the other organizer’s set of three kids) defuse and make peace. They’re really good at it.
Marty could roller skate the day I bought him Fisher Price skates, so the next day we got him real roller blades, and he skated away.
By the time Holly came along the relatives were more confidence already, so I don’t remember bragging about Holly as much. But when she was 16, she wanted to work in a flower shop near here, and couldn’t figure out how to apply. I wrote a letter for her to take over there saying she was homeschooled and great with making things like flower fairies (maybe I sent photos with it, I don’t remember), and if the owner would be willing to let her help out during an upcoming busy season (May: Mother’s Day, high school proms, Memorial Day), I would be willing to pay them and it could be school credit for her.
Instead they hired her. So that was bragging (me to the store owner) that led to another brag (for the relatives), but she was nearly grown by then.
Sandra