Ali Zeljo

Hi, I'm hoping some of you have helped a child change his/her sleep-wake cycle? My 14 year old son typically stays up on his computer/Skype until 2-4am and wakes between 12-2pm. He needs/wants to start waking at 7:30am in a few days for a camp counselor position he accepted.

Over the last week he has tried to shift his schedule, but his body is having trouble! I thought it would be as simple as waking him up early a few days and then he would be tired earlier and shift. But he just can't wake up early! And he can't fall asleep earlier. His body is really resisting this change!

He has turned off the computer around 10 the last 2 nights and laid in bed trying to sleep with not much luck.

Has anyone else here had success making an intentional shift in sleep cycle? Did you find anything to help especially well?

Thanks!
Ali

Joyce Fetteroll


On Jun 19, 2014, at 8:44 AM, Ali Zeljo azeljo@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

Has anyone else here had success making an intentional shift in sleep cycle?

I think the biggest incentive to get up early will be needing to be at camp that day.

That first day he'll be tired! And he'll probably fall asleep early. Which will make it easier to get up for the second day.

I do think it's a good idea to give it a try to shift a sleep schedule a few days in advance. But if that doesn't work, having to get up for real is the best motivator. 

My daughter has a wonky sleep schedule and irregular work hours. (She works at Starbucks.) But she manages to get up for work at whatever hour she needs to that day whether she's had 8 hours of sleep or 2. 

Joyce

Megan Valnes

My son also goes to bed quite late and when he knows he needs to wake up early for something (like today,  he has to be up by 8:30am for video game testing), he gets himself ready for early sleep the following ways:
1. Shuts off all electronic devices one hour prior to the time he wants to fall asleep at.
2. Drinks a glass of warm milk, which has tryptophan.
3. We have black out shades in his room so the room gets really dark.
4. Sometimes he uses a sleep mask for extra darkness.
5. He usually reads in bed for about 30 minutes to an hour to help him settle down.

Some other tips for sleeping are journaling in bed if your son likes to write. Keeping the temperature cool (68-70 degrees Fahrenheit).  And lastly, listening to relaxation CDs or on his ipod (or whatever music device you have) can help lull the mind to sleep.

Good luck! I'm sure like Joyce said, just knowing he has to wake up will be a driving force to solve his challenge.

Warmly,
Megan

On Jun 19, 2014 7:16 AM, "Joyce Fetteroll jfetteroll@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:
 


On Jun 19, 2014, at 8:44 AM, Ali Zeljo azeljo@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

Has anyone else here had success making an intentional shift in sleep cycle?

I think the biggest incentive to get up early will be needing to be at camp that day.

That first day he'll be tired! And he'll probably fall asleep early. Which will make it easier to get up for the second day.

I do think it's a good idea to give it a try to shift a sleep schedule a few days in advance. But if that doesn't work, having to get up for real is the best motivator. 

My daughter has a wonky sleep schedule and irregular work hours. (She works at Starbucks.) But she manages to get up for work at whatever hour she needs to that day whether she's had 8 hours of sleep or 2. 

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=-Has anyone else here had success making an intentional shift in sleep cycle? Did you find anything to help especially well?-=-

An alarm clock.

-=-He has turned off the computer around 10 the last 2 nights and laid in bed trying to sleep with not much luck.-=-

You're assuming people need to practice.  Don't think of it as "a cycle."  Think of it as choosing in each moment whether to get up or not, or stay awake or not.

My kids have had jobs that started just about around the clock, now.  11:00 p.m. (Kirby).  4:00 a.m. (Marty)—both of those after they were adults, but as teens, their jobs were all kinds of starting-times, and Holly's too.  

-=-His body is really resisting this change!-=-

Don't think of it as a change.
It seems you're trying to push a rope.  Don't put the sleep first.  Put the waking up and the work first.

On the first day of the job, he will wake up from adrenaline and work hard, and then be able to sleep and get into the rhythm of doing that.

Practice-sleep doesn't work.

-=- He needs/wants to start waking at 7:30am in a few days for a camp counselor position he accepted. -=-

"Needs/wants to"?
He has commited to be at a certain place at a certain time.  Hasn't this happened before for your family?  Have you all gotten up early because you were leaving on a trip, or because there was something scheduled or someone was coming over?

He has made a commitment to be somewhere.   The night before THAT is when he should count back and find a way to get to sleep (maybe he should make a playlist of soothing, quiet music, or make a quiet pandora playlist, or download something like "Sleep Pillow" with sounds to sleep by.

Practicing to get up is just irritating, though.  Don't set an early alarm the day before to see if it will work.  Being woken up for practice is NOT at all like hearing the alarm, knowing it's FOR REAL, and getting up.  

You should help him the night before—clothes ready, towels, plan for breakfast (know what he wants, at least, so you're not asking him that morning), have the things he needs to take with him already ready, by the door.  

Subsequent mornings will be easier.  But I think you're looking at it from the wrong end, with the idea that he needs to be in a routine in advance.

Sandra
 


Heather

My son can shift his sleep schedule but it takes him several days.
Instead of getting up earlier, he goes the opposite direction and stays up as long as possible.
So if he usually stays up til 4 am, he'd try to stay up til 8 am & then sleep.
Then the next day/night, maybe he could stay up til noon & so forth, until he's essentially gone around the clock.
He did this just a couple of weeks ago so he could do more things with us.  He's 18.

heather


On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 7:16 AM, Joyce Fetteroll jfetteroll@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 


On Jun 19, 2014, at 8:44 AM, Ali Zeljo azeljo@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

Has anyone else here had success making an intentional shift in sleep cycle?

I think the biggest incentive to get up early will be needing to be at camp that day.

That first day he'll be tired! And he'll probably fall asleep early. Which will make it easier to get up for the second day.

I do think it's a good idea to give it a try to shift a sleep schedule a few days in advance. But if that doesn't work, having to get up for real is the best motivator. 

My daughter has a wonky sleep schedule and irregular work hours. (She works at Starbucks.) But she manages to get up for work at whatever hour she needs to that day whether she's had 8 hours of sleep or 2. 

Joyce




--
Heather Mclean

Tara Johansson

When I have travelled internationally, and had to adjust to a 9-10 hour time change eating meals on the new schedule was effective in helping my body adjust.  This was true for all 6 of us, but it took some of us longer to acclimate than others.  

He could also try creating or returning to some relaxing rituals from bedtime when he was younger to help set the mood for sleep.

Good luck!

Tara

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 19, 2014, at 5:44 AM, "Ali Zeljo azeljo@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:

 

Hi, I'm hoping some of you have helped a child change his/her sleep-wake cycle? My 14 year old son typically stays up on his computer/Skype until 2-4am and wakes between 12-2pm. He needs/wants to start waking at 7:30am in a few days for a camp counselor position he accepted.

Over the last week he has tried to shift his schedule, but his body is having trouble! I thought it would be as simple as waking him up early a few days and then he would be tired earlier and shift. But he just can't wake up early! And he can't fall asleep earlier. His body is really resisting this change!

He has turned off the computer around 10 the last 2 nights and laid in bed trying to sleep with not much luck.

Has anyone else here had success making an intentional shift in sleep cycle? Did you find anything to help especially well?

Thanks!
Ali

Ali Zeljo

And I thought I had asked a straight-forward question!!


"Needs/wants to"?
He has commited to be at a certain place at a certain time. Hasn't this happened before for your family? Have you all gotten up early because you were leaving on a trip, or because there was something scheduled or someone was coming over?

---

Thinking about this, I realize I'm worried he will not be able to do it. There have been many times he has a class he wants to take, tries to go to sleep earlier but has a lot of trouble falling asleep. Then in the morning he wakes up and feels too sick to go. By 2 or 3:00 he is feeling fine, but is truly feeling sick at the time he would need to walk out the door and ends up not going. This doesn't happen every time.

And going deeper, I realize I'm trying to prevent him from failing or not living up to the commitment the way I would. So I've started to take charge of the process, which is silly!

There have been lots of great tips and suggestions which I will pass on to him.

Thank you!!
Ali

plaidpanties666@...

>>Thinking about this, I realize I'm worried he will not be able to do it. There have been many times he has a class he wants to take, tries to go to sleep earlier but has a lot of trouble falling asleep. Then in the morning he wakes up and feels too sick to go.<<


In that case, it may make sense to do some "practice" runs in order to get an idea if there's a better option - like staying up all night, my stepson used to do that in his teens if he wanted to get up early. Or maybe try getting him up an hour earlier than he needs to be up and having something sweet to see if that knocks out the sick feeling - my daughter went through a stage of waking up nauseated and a few hard candies would turn the nausea to hunger. Or he could try having a cup of coffee-milk (that's a thing in Rhode Island - giving kids a very sweet coffee-and-milk mixture, they even sell it in stores).


---Meredith

semajrak@...

>>>And going deeper, I realize I'm trying to prevent him from failing or not living up to the commitment the way I would. So I've started to take charge of the process, which is silly!<<<

I don't think it's silly.  :-)  I think it's largely conditioning.  

I was in school for 18 years.  For 13 of those years, every morning, five days a week, ten months of the year, I was awakened at the same time. And every night I was told (at least in elementary and high school) that I needed to be in bed by a certain time in order to function well enough for school the next day. In following this routine, I and my parents were trained to believe that I was setting a pattern of living that would lead to things like responsibility, drive, ambition, independence, etc.

If and when children are given a routine to follow, how do *they* come to know when they are authentically driven toward a goal? I do not believe that children who go to school never discover what really motivates them. But I do think that having an artificial system in place could make it more difficult to differentiate true initiative from the derivative of routine experience and reward. And, I wonder how that, in turn, influences their choices and/or even limits their options.
    
I asked a similar question to your own a couple/few years ago. You can find it in the archives. I told myself Ethan had a sleeping disorder -- phase shift disorder or something like that. I received very insightful replies, like yourself. Like yourself, my question was motivated by my own fear of him not being able to fulfill his commitments, both at that particular time, and into his future. The advice I received gave me the confidence to continue moving forward in my partnership with Ethan. In time, I've had the wonderful opportunity to witness my son become very clear about where he wants to spend his energy. He has a great deal of integrity. If he makes a commitment, he keeps it. Consequently, he makes commitments thoughtfully and cautiously. Sometimes I'll ask him if he wants to do something and he'll say "Let me think about that." His decision to agree or not to agree is based on what he has learned about himself through the choices that are made available to him.  That's been pretty cool and hugely enlightening to see.

Karen James.

Sandra Dodd

-=-maybe try getting him up an hour earlier than he needs to be up and having something sweet to see if that knocks out the sick feeling -=-

Waking up in the shower might help.  If the shower is already ready—towels and all right there—it might be an easy thing for him to stand up and get in the shower .  

If he can smell bacon or coffee (whatever he likes best for breakfast) as soon as the shower is done, that might help, too.

Make the bed while he's in the shower, maybe; or strip it to put the sheets to wash.  Something so he can't be tempted to get back into the bed.

Sandra