Fun with diapers and dressing
Sarah Stone-Francisco
We practiced a very relaxed form of elimination communication (EC) with Sparrow from two weeks old. It was a beautiful tool for helping us pay attention to her cues and the way she was communicating consciously or unconsciously from the beginning. Around 18 months she started refusing to sit on the potty. We never went diaper free, which is probably one reason why EC didn't end up working the way I had expected it to; I've let go of those expectations, though, and am just grateful that she pees and poops. In the last couple months (she turned two last weekend) she has really, really started fighting having her diaper changed. As long as she doesn't have to lie down, taking them off is fine, but kicks, wriggles and repeatedly declares No! when we try to put the new one on.
This strong emotional assertion of her desires and will has been a huge learning opportunity for me. At first, when she would struggle, I would approach it from a perspective like, "I'm the boss, this is going to happen because I say so." Not very team oriented and it never felt very good. That approach set us up as adversaries and always led to me shouting and strong-arming, and Sparrow in tears. I would feel absolutely awful afterwards and seek assurance from my mom and husband that I'm not a bad mother. A bit like the "there, there, you're doing the best you can, being a mother is so hard," platitudes that I feel gratefully wary of after reading this list.
Though I was seeking assurances, deep down I knew that I Wasn't doing the best I could, that there Had to be a better way. A few weeks ago I made a commitment to myself not to lose it again over diaper changing.
I've been doing well. But we still often have difficulty getting her diapered.
A couple examples: One morning the whole process took between one and two hours, so we missed tot gym and our backup plan of meeting people at the children's nature museum. It did end in tears, but they were mine. (She cried, too, but not because I was physically forcing a diaper on her, instead she was crying because i wasn't letting her do other things until she had a diaper on, like crawl under our covers, play in her crib, or go upstairs to eat). However, I never once lost my temper, shouted, or held her down to put a diaper on her. I focused on deep breathing, and a couple times I walked away to break the cycle of our mutually building frustration. Finally, feeling at my wits end I called my mom with tears in my eyes. Funny, she just said a couple words to Sparrow who asked to go upstairs for apple sauce once again, and I said the same thing I had been repeating, "yes, absolutely you can, as soon as we get a diaper on." And she said ok and laid down on the bed.
Another time, I had another opportunity to be even gentler. No struggle, she wanted to get under the covers without a diaper, so I just went under there, too, and put the diaper on under there: no struggle at all for either of us. The larger lesson seemed to be more of a transformation in my way of thinking. I'm letting go of my attachment to the idea that, as the parent, it's my job to ensure that I'm "listened to and minded," which I Know is coming from the leftover voices of my own parents in my head. And, in its place is a much kinder perspective that, as her parent, it's my job to see that she has a safe, supportive environment for learning.
But we don't always have two hours or the covers to get under. And once her diaper is on, getting dressed is often the same type of struggle. Sometimes I can find that magic thing that she gets interested in enough to let me change her diaper and dress her quickly, gently and in a flow, but more often than not, I cannot find the magic, and while I've changed and remain patient, it still feels like force. (Just no longer the kind that comes from impatience and frustration.)
I know I/we can do even better than this and I look forward to your help in figuring that out.
So far, two of the biggest lessons for me have been: 1) getting someplace on time is not worth compromising our relationship, and 2) that I can always remember to think of two options and pick the best one. And, the next time I can think of an even better option.
So, I would love to know if people have solutions that have worked for them: I'm all ears/eyes! I'd love to find compassionate and/or creative ways to make diapering and dressing something she enjoys - or at least tolerates - and doesn't run away from or suffer through while crying.
I am super grateful for the "voices" of this list's writers in my head nudging me along in a more positive, peaceful, joyful direction.
love, sarah
PS: I know Sparrow isn't yet school age, but I didn't want to miss out on Sandra, Pam(s), Joyce, and Alex's perspective by posting at AlwaysUnschooled, even though I appreciate that discussion, too. (Thank you, Meredith!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This strong emotional assertion of her desires and will has been a huge learning opportunity for me. At first, when she would struggle, I would approach it from a perspective like, "I'm the boss, this is going to happen because I say so." Not very team oriented and it never felt very good. That approach set us up as adversaries and always led to me shouting and strong-arming, and Sparrow in tears. I would feel absolutely awful afterwards and seek assurance from my mom and husband that I'm not a bad mother. A bit like the "there, there, you're doing the best you can, being a mother is so hard," platitudes that I feel gratefully wary of after reading this list.
Though I was seeking assurances, deep down I knew that I Wasn't doing the best I could, that there Had to be a better way. A few weeks ago I made a commitment to myself not to lose it again over diaper changing.
I've been doing well. But we still often have difficulty getting her diapered.
A couple examples: One morning the whole process took between one and two hours, so we missed tot gym and our backup plan of meeting people at the children's nature museum. It did end in tears, but they were mine. (She cried, too, but not because I was physically forcing a diaper on her, instead she was crying because i wasn't letting her do other things until she had a diaper on, like crawl under our covers, play in her crib, or go upstairs to eat). However, I never once lost my temper, shouted, or held her down to put a diaper on her. I focused on deep breathing, and a couple times I walked away to break the cycle of our mutually building frustration. Finally, feeling at my wits end I called my mom with tears in my eyes. Funny, she just said a couple words to Sparrow who asked to go upstairs for apple sauce once again, and I said the same thing I had been repeating, "yes, absolutely you can, as soon as we get a diaper on." And she said ok and laid down on the bed.
Another time, I had another opportunity to be even gentler. No struggle, she wanted to get under the covers without a diaper, so I just went under there, too, and put the diaper on under there: no struggle at all for either of us. The larger lesson seemed to be more of a transformation in my way of thinking. I'm letting go of my attachment to the idea that, as the parent, it's my job to ensure that I'm "listened to and minded," which I Know is coming from the leftover voices of my own parents in my head. And, in its place is a much kinder perspective that, as her parent, it's my job to see that she has a safe, supportive environment for learning.
But we don't always have two hours or the covers to get under. And once her diaper is on, getting dressed is often the same type of struggle. Sometimes I can find that magic thing that she gets interested in enough to let me change her diaper and dress her quickly, gently and in a flow, but more often than not, I cannot find the magic, and while I've changed and remain patient, it still feels like force. (Just no longer the kind that comes from impatience and frustration.)
I know I/we can do even better than this and I look forward to your help in figuring that out.
So far, two of the biggest lessons for me have been: 1) getting someplace on time is not worth compromising our relationship, and 2) that I can always remember to think of two options and pick the best one. And, the next time I can think of an even better option.
So, I would love to know if people have solutions that have worked for them: I'm all ears/eyes! I'd love to find compassionate and/or creative ways to make diapering and dressing something she enjoys - or at least tolerates - and doesn't run away from or suffer through while crying.
I am super grateful for the "voices" of this list's writers in my head nudging me along in a more positive, peaceful, joyful direction.
love, sarah
PS: I know Sparrow isn't yet school age, but I didn't want to miss out on Sandra, Pam(s), Joyce, and Alex's perspective by posting at AlwaysUnschooled, even though I appreciate that discussion, too. (Thank you, Meredith!)
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Sandra Dodd
-=-At first, when she would struggle, I would approach it from a perspective like, "I'm the boss, this is going to happen because I say so."-=-
Although you didn't SAY "I'm the boss," it sounds like that was what was happening when you took nearly two hours to insist that she have a diaper before she could play or crawl under the covers or go upstairs to eat. Cleaning up an accident wouldn't have taken that long, and she might not have had one.
-=-But we still often have difficulty getting her diapered. -=-
Alarms go of when someone says "we" and should've said "I"�who is "we"?
-=-We never went diaper free, which is probably one reason why EC didn't end up working the way I had expected it to-=-
I'm guessing elimination-communication advocates might feel, about that, as I would if someone said "We never took the kids out of school, which is probably one reason why unschooling didn't end up working the way I had expected it to."
It might not be worth even mentioning elimination communication if it didn't work.
-=-So far, two of the biggest lessons for me have been: 1) getting someplace on time is not worth compromising our relationship, and 2) that I can always remember to think of two options and pick the best one. And, the next time I can think of an even better option. -=-
1) neither is having a diaper on
2) don't be overconfident. You probably can't always remember to do that. :-) It will take a lot of practice and mindfulness.
-=- I'd love to find compassionate and/or creative ways to make diapering and dressing something she enjoys - or at least tolerates - and doesn't run away from or suffer through while crying.-=-
"Tolerate," "suffer" and "cry" are communications that should be elminated. There.
She will only be two for a year. Not a day longer.
Do you sing to her? Can you dress her where she can be watching a video? For dressing, stick your hand through the sleeve or leg, and hold her hand or foot, and pull the clothes on that way. Instead of pushing clothes on her and pushing her arms and legs into cloth tubes, hold her hand, hold her foot. Push and pull the clothes, and not her.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Although you didn't SAY "I'm the boss," it sounds like that was what was happening when you took nearly two hours to insist that she have a diaper before she could play or crawl under the covers or go upstairs to eat. Cleaning up an accident wouldn't have taken that long, and she might not have had one.
-=-But we still often have difficulty getting her diapered. -=-
Alarms go of when someone says "we" and should've said "I"�who is "we"?
-=-We never went diaper free, which is probably one reason why EC didn't end up working the way I had expected it to-=-
I'm guessing elimination-communication advocates might feel, about that, as I would if someone said "We never took the kids out of school, which is probably one reason why unschooling didn't end up working the way I had expected it to."
It might not be worth even mentioning elimination communication if it didn't work.
-=-So far, two of the biggest lessons for me have been: 1) getting someplace on time is not worth compromising our relationship, and 2) that I can always remember to think of two options and pick the best one. And, the next time I can think of an even better option. -=-
1) neither is having a diaper on
2) don't be overconfident. You probably can't always remember to do that. :-) It will take a lot of practice and mindfulness.
-=- I'd love to find compassionate and/or creative ways to make diapering and dressing something she enjoys - or at least tolerates - and doesn't run away from or suffer through while crying.-=-
"Tolerate," "suffer" and "cry" are communications that should be elminated. There.
She will only be two for a year. Not a day longer.
Do you sing to her? Can you dress her where she can be watching a video? For dressing, stick your hand through the sleeve or leg, and hold her hand or foot, and pull the clothes on that way. Instead of pushing clothes on her and pushing her arms and legs into cloth tubes, hold her hand, hold her foot. Push and pull the clothes, and not her.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Priscilla Rolvers
A first time response for me. Please excuse my English, I am doing my very
best.
I know a mother who practised EC with her kids and she always carried lots
of stuff: clean clothes for herself and her kids and towels. If there was
an accident, she just cleaned up. Sometimes she did it without even pausing
the conversation she was having.
What I read is that Sparrow doesn't want to wear diapers. Why is her not
wanting to wear diapers less important than your wish she does? Listen to
her. Respect her. Especially for girls it is very important to learn her no
is respected.
Love,
Priscilla
best.
I know a mother who practised EC with her kids and she always carried lots
of stuff: clean clothes for herself and her kids and towels. If there was
an accident, she just cleaned up. Sometimes she did it without even pausing
the conversation she was having.
What I read is that Sparrow doesn't want to wear diapers. Why is her not
wanting to wear diapers less important than your wish she does? Listen to
her. Respect her. Especially for girls it is very important to learn her no
is respected.
Love,
Priscilla
On Apr 17, 2013 5:39 PM, "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-At first, when she would struggle, I would approach it from a
> perspective like, "I'm the boss, this is going to happen because I say
> so."-=-
>
> Although you didn't SAY "I'm the boss," it sounds like that was what was
> happening when you took nearly two hours to insist that she have a diaper
> before she could play or crawl under the covers or go upstairs to eat.
> Cleaning up an accident wouldn't have taken that long, and she might not
> have had one.
>
> -=-But we still often have difficulty getting her diapered. -=-
>
> Alarms go of when someone says "we" and should've said "I"�who is "we"?
>
> -=-We never went diaper free, which is probably one reason why EC didn't
> end up working the way I had expected it to-=-
>
> I'm guessing elimination-communication advocates might feel, about that,
> as I would if someone said "We never took the kids out of school, which is
> probably one reason why unschooling didn't end up working the way I had
> expected it to."
>
> It might not be worth even mentioning elimination communication if it
> didn't work.
>
> -=-So far, two of the biggest lessons for me have been: 1) getting
> someplace on time is not worth compromising our relationship, and 2) that I
> can always remember to think of two options and pick the best one. And, the
> next time I can think of an even better option. -=-
>
> 1) neither is having a diaper on
> 2) don't be overconfident. You probably can't always remember to do that.
> :-) It will take a lot of practice and mindfulness.
>
> -=- I'd love to find compassionate and/or creative ways to make diapering
> and dressing something she enjoys - or at least tolerates - and doesn't run
> away from or suffer through while crying.-=-
>
> "Tolerate," "suffer" and "cry" are communications that should be
> elminated. There.
>
> She will only be two for a year. Not a day longer.
>
> Do you sing to her? Can you dress her where she can be watching a video?
> For dressing, stick your hand through the sleeve or leg, and hold her hand
> or foot, and pull the clothes on that way. Instead of pushing clothes on
> her and pushing her arms and legs into cloth tubes, hold her hand, hold her
> foot. Push and pull the clothes, and not her.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
When my daughter did not want to wear diapers we went diaper free as much as we could. Wore dresses and training cotton pants that she liked some times.
It is easy for us because we live in a farm . If there were accidents I cleaned up. I had a little potty in the room we played so it was a good reminder and easy right in front of us.
Going to parks I took extra clothing and underwear and changed it fast ( easy clothing to remove and put back in). You can actually get panties and shorts together!!!!
To sleep I let her sleep naked and then when she was asleep I put diapers on her.
I did a lot of diaper changing while they were up and doing something. As fast as I could. If they did not want to clean up poop a bath is always fun. I never cleaned pee. It is actually healthier for the skin to just let it dry out and not wipe pee.
With my son I had special puppets to change diapers, I sang and made up funny stories on top of all the above.
Sometimes I would say we needed to wear the diaper to go somewhere special and because I did not make them wear it all the time or turn into a battle of will they would go with it. Or I took them in the car and placed a plastic bag and some cloth diapers under them between their bottoms and the car seat.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It is easy for us because we live in a farm . If there were accidents I cleaned up. I had a little potty in the room we played so it was a good reminder and easy right in front of us.
Going to parks I took extra clothing and underwear and changed it fast ( easy clothing to remove and put back in). You can actually get panties and shorts together!!!!
To sleep I let her sleep naked and then when she was asleep I put diapers on her.
I did a lot of diaper changing while they were up and doing something. As fast as I could. If they did not want to clean up poop a bath is always fun. I never cleaned pee. It is actually healthier for the skin to just let it dry out and not wipe pee.
With my son I had special puppets to change diapers, I sang and made up funny stories on top of all the above.
Sometimes I would say we needed to wear the diaper to go somewhere special and because I did not make them wear it all the time or turn into a battle of will they would go with it. Or I took them in the car and placed a plastic bag and some cloth diapers under them between their bottoms and the car seat.
Alex Polikowsky
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CASS KOTRBA
For years my daughter delighted in being completely naked. She would resist clothes and diapers. I thought about what a neat experience it would be for her to feel so free and to experience the feeling of the air, the couch, the carpet, the grass, the swing, etc on her naked little body. I let her go completely buff as often as possible. She just reveled in that feeling and my husband & I would smile & laugh watching her feel so much joy! (She also started playing with her genitals a lot during this phase. That wasn't as funny to see! I did not want to shame her about it so I would just put a blanket over her which she would sometimes leave or throw off. If she wouldn't keep the blanket on and I didn't want to be a witness I would busy myself in the kitchen.) I don't remember her ever having an accident although there probably were a few but we had hardwood floors and a carpet cleaner. Her little brother was around 1 at this time so often I would strip them both naked and they would play in our fenced yard this way (accidents? - no problem out there). We had a pond and they loved to slide their naked little bodies in and splash around. Have you ever gone skinny dipping? I would recommend it if you ever get the chance! The water feels amazing on your skin! They got tanned from head to toe, literally, and I would call them my little bronzed beauties! There were koi fish, algae and a water fall to play with and I just loved watching my little bohemians! Leaving that yard was the saddest part when we sold that house. We had a fence and it was fairly private and so far as I know nobody was ever offended by their extended nakedness. And it saved on laundry!
When we wanted to go somewhere it was usually no problem getting them dressed and diapered because they had plenty of naked time and they understood that they'd be more comfortable at the library or grocery store with clothes on. My daughter has enjoyed picking out her own clothes and dressing herself since she was 2 & it has always been very entertaining. That little girl puts together much more creative and interesting outfits than I would come up with! Many times things matched and coordinated in the most interesting ways. Other times things were wildly disjointed but the key was to accept and appreciate whatever it was she chose. We still do that accept now that she's 10 she's much more skilled and I often ask her advice when I'm getting dressed. And I've had comments from many people who have enjoyed seeing her creations. The only time I offer an opinion is if she has chosen a sundress and it's 20 degrees outside, I will mention the weather and suggest she put a long sleeve shirt and pants on under or something like that. No problem since she is the architect of those modifications.
She potty trained herself at two (pee - poop took a little longer) without a single word from me. I never, not once, asked her to sit on the potty. We had a little one in the bathroom but it was ignored. She was usually in the bathroom with me when I went. One day, shortly after her second birthday, she waddled her naked little body over to the big toilet, climbed on, straddled it and peed. That was it. From then on whenever she had to go she just walked on over and did her thing. She was tiny so it's amazing that she never fell in! She had been obsessed with playing with her dishes in the toilet for quite awhile so I kept it clean and it was just another piece of her life, not something she was ever afraid of or anything. The whole experience of her being naked and potty training is such a happy memory for all of us.
For my son at this same time I got really good at sneaking up behind him, pulling the old diaper off and replacing it while he was standing & playing. As long as he didn't have to stop what he was doing he was cool with.
-Cass
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When we wanted to go somewhere it was usually no problem getting them dressed and diapered because they had plenty of naked time and they understood that they'd be more comfortable at the library or grocery store with clothes on. My daughter has enjoyed picking out her own clothes and dressing herself since she was 2 & it has always been very entertaining. That little girl puts together much more creative and interesting outfits than I would come up with! Many times things matched and coordinated in the most interesting ways. Other times things were wildly disjointed but the key was to accept and appreciate whatever it was she chose. We still do that accept now that she's 10 she's much more skilled and I often ask her advice when I'm getting dressed. And I've had comments from many people who have enjoyed seeing her creations. The only time I offer an opinion is if she has chosen a sundress and it's 20 degrees outside, I will mention the weather and suggest she put a long sleeve shirt and pants on under or something like that. No problem since she is the architect of those modifications.
She potty trained herself at two (pee - poop took a little longer) without a single word from me. I never, not once, asked her to sit on the potty. We had a little one in the bathroom but it was ignored. She was usually in the bathroom with me when I went. One day, shortly after her second birthday, she waddled her naked little body over to the big toilet, climbed on, straddled it and peed. That was it. From then on whenever she had to go she just walked on over and did her thing. She was tiny so it's amazing that she never fell in! She had been obsessed with playing with her dishes in the toilet for quite awhile so I kept it clean and it was just another piece of her life, not something she was ever afraid of or anything. The whole experience of her being naked and potty training is such a happy memory for all of us.
For my son at this same time I got really good at sneaking up behind him, pulling the old diaper off and replacing it while he was standing & playing. As long as he didn't have to stop what he was doing he was cool with.
-Cass
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Meredith
Sarah Stone-Francisco <stone_francisco@...> wrote:
She may not need nearly as many outings as you think - a lot of the problem may have to do with transitions themselves rather than diapers or dressing, so it could help to pare down big transitions to a minimum. Plan to spend more time at home. Plan to have a naked 2yo running around for at least part of every day, while you're at it. Think about when she's likely to poop and aim for diapers then, otherwise, have lots of towels. Pick her up and put her in a better place to pee when you see her start - on a towel, on the porch, in the kitchen, even outside if that's an option (maybe not, depends on where you live). Don't make a big deal about a little pee, though. It's just pee. You can rent a steam-cleaner in six months if you need to.
Also, learn how to diaper on the go - it's doable, but it takes some practice and a relaxed sense of fun on your part. Lots of little kids won't lie down for a diaper change - they're too busy, and don't like the helplessness of it all. I found vinyl diaper covers with cloth inserts were handy for mobile diaper changes at one point - they went on and off easily. But once it got hot Mo figured out how to take them off and I didn't fuss about the things. I just made sure she was covered when she was going to poo. Reducing the number of changes helped with that.
Clothes... it used to be even boys wore dresses when they were in diapers - it's the source of an old insult "unbreeched boy" as in "you're not even potty trained". Look for short, sleeveless dresses that barely cover the diaper. That's another advantage to staying home, if you live someplace cold, or moving into winter right now. If you need company, consider inviting people over, or look for ways to get out on your own now and then. Little kids often don't need nearly as much social time as their parents!
Even if you'd gone totally diaper free, once kids get really mobile they often lose interest in managing their elimination for awhile. They have way too many other wonderful things to explore - they'll get back to that other stuff later.
---Meredith
>One morning the whole process took between one and two hours, so we missed tot gym and our backup plan of meeting people at the children's nature museum.***************
She may not need nearly as many outings as you think - a lot of the problem may have to do with transitions themselves rather than diapers or dressing, so it could help to pare down big transitions to a minimum. Plan to spend more time at home. Plan to have a naked 2yo running around for at least part of every day, while you're at it. Think about when she's likely to poop and aim for diapers then, otherwise, have lots of towels. Pick her up and put her in a better place to pee when you see her start - on a towel, on the porch, in the kitchen, even outside if that's an option (maybe not, depends on where you live). Don't make a big deal about a little pee, though. It's just pee. You can rent a steam-cleaner in six months if you need to.
Also, learn how to diaper on the go - it's doable, but it takes some practice and a relaxed sense of fun on your part. Lots of little kids won't lie down for a diaper change - they're too busy, and don't like the helplessness of it all. I found vinyl diaper covers with cloth inserts were handy for mobile diaper changes at one point - they went on and off easily. But once it got hot Mo figured out how to take them off and I didn't fuss about the things. I just made sure she was covered when she was going to poo. Reducing the number of changes helped with that.
Clothes... it used to be even boys wore dresses when they were in diapers - it's the source of an old insult "unbreeched boy" as in "you're not even potty trained". Look for short, sleeveless dresses that barely cover the diaper. That's another advantage to staying home, if you live someplace cold, or moving into winter right now. If you need company, consider inviting people over, or look for ways to get out on your own now and then. Little kids often don't need nearly as much social time as their parents!
>> Around 18 months she started refusing to sit on the potty. We never went diaper free, which is probably one reason why EC didn't end up working the way I had expected it to*************
Even if you'd gone totally diaper free, once kids get really mobile they often lose interest in managing their elimination for awhile. They have way too many other wonderful things to explore - they'll get back to that other stuff later.
---Meredith
Juliet Kemp
We've done part-time EC with Leon (now 13 months) too. Obviously he's that bit younger, but sometimes he doesn't like to sit on the potty either. Sometimes that just means he doesn't need to go, but sometimes switching it up and holding him over the toilet or even sitting him on it (on the big seat, held securely, or you could use a child seat thingy). So if you haven't tried potty alternatives (even just going outside!) that might be an option. Might she be telling you that she wants to potty learn now? Could it be worth going to training pants or straight to knickers and prepare to clean up some accidents?
As far as nappies go, I often put Leon's on while he's on the move - he doesn't mind the nappy, but he's not keen on the staying still. Singing a song sometimes helps too - we have a couple of songs and sometimes one works and sometimes the other. Or just backing off altogether for a couple of minutes and trying again when he's involved in something and I can squiggle it onto him without stopping his play.
Singing works well for dressing for us, too. Or, again, dressing him around whatever he's playing with. Or playing the "Captain Leon's Adventures in Sleeveland" game (narrating stories about his hand going exploring in Sleeveland, with over dramatic voices and much cheering when the brave hand emerges). Or putting my hand down the sleeve so I can grab his hand and pull the sleeve over it rather than pushing. Or just not putting whatever item of clothing it is on. (I get occasional tellings-off from old ladies about Leon not wearing a hat, but if I've put it on him and he's taken it off I figure he doesn't want it.)
Juliet
As far as nappies go, I often put Leon's on while he's on the move - he doesn't mind the nappy, but he's not keen on the staying still. Singing a song sometimes helps too - we have a couple of songs and sometimes one works and sometimes the other. Or just backing off altogether for a couple of minutes and trying again when he's involved in something and I can squiggle it onto him without stopping his play.
Singing works well for dressing for us, too. Or, again, dressing him around whatever he's playing with. Or playing the "Captain Leon's Adventures in Sleeveland" game (narrating stories about his hand going exploring in Sleeveland, with over dramatic voices and much cheering when the brave hand emerges). Or putting my hand down the sleeve so I can grab his hand and pull the sleeve over it rather than pushing. Or just not putting whatever item of clothing it is on. (I get occasional tellings-off from old ladies about Leon not wearing a hat, but if I've put it on him and he's taken it off I figure he doesn't want it.)
Juliet
On 17 Apr 2013, at 15:50, Sarah Stone-Francisco <stone_francisco@...> wrote:
> We practiced a very relaxed form of elimination communication (EC) with Sparrow from two weeks old. It was a beautiful tool for helping us pay attention to her cues and the way she was communicating consciously or unconsciously from the beginning. Around 18 months she started refusing to sit on the potty. We never went diaper free, which is probably one reason why EC didn't end up working the way I had expected it to; I've let go of those expectations, though, and am just grateful that she pees and poops. In the last couple months (she turned two last weekend) she has really, really started fighting having her diaper changed. As long as she doesn't have to lie down, taking them off is fine, but kicks, wriggles and repeatedly declares No! when we try to put the new one on.
>
> This strong emotional assertion of her desires and will has been a huge learning opportunity for me. At first, when she would struggle, I would approach it from a perspective like, "I'm the boss, this is going to happen because I say so." Not very team oriented and it never felt very good. That approach set us up as adversaries and always led to me shouting and strong-arming, and Sparrow in tears. I would feel absolutely awful afterwards and seek assurance from my mom and husband that I'm not a bad mother. A bit like the "there, there, you're doing the best you can, being a mother is so hard," platitudes that I feel gratefully wary of after reading this list.
>
> Though I was seeking assurances, deep down I knew that I Wasn't doing the best I could, that there Had to be a better way. A few weeks ago I made a commitment to myself not to lose it again over diaper changing.
>
> I've been doing well. But we still often have difficulty getting her diapered.
>
> A couple examples: One morning the whole process took between one and two hours, so we missed tot gym and our backup plan of meeting people at the children's nature museum. It did end in tears, but they were mine. (She cried, too, but not because I was physically forcing a diaper on her, instead she was crying because i wasn't letting her do other things until she had a diaper on, like crawl under our covers, play in her crib, or go upstairs to eat). However, I never once lost my temper, shouted, or held her down to put a diaper on her. I focused on deep breathing, and a couple times I walked away to break the cycle of our mutually building frustration. Finally, feeling at my wits end I called my mom with tears in my eyes. Funny, she just said a couple words to Sparrow who asked to go upstairs for apple sauce once again, and I said the same thing I had been repeating, "yes, absolutely you can, as soon as we get a diaper on." And she said ok and laid down on the bed.
>
> Another time, I had another opportunity to be even gentler. No struggle, she wanted to get under the covers without a diaper, so I just went under there, too, and put the diaper on under there: no struggle at all for either of us. The larger lesson seemed to be more of a transformation in my way of thinking. I'm letting go of my attachment to the idea that, as the parent, it's my job to ensure that I'm "listened to and minded," which I Know is coming from the leftover voices of my own parents in my head. And, in its place is a much kinder perspective that, as her parent, it's my job to see that she has a safe, supportive environment for learning.
>
> But we don't always have two hours or the covers to get under. And once her diaper is on, getting dressed is often the same type of struggle. Sometimes I can find that magic thing that she gets interested in enough to let me change her diaper and dress her quickly, gently and in a flow, but more often than not, I cannot find the magic, and while I've changed and remain patient, it still feels like force. (Just no longer the kind that comes from impatience and frustration.)
>
> I know I/we can do even better than this and I look forward to your help in figuring that out.
>
> So far, two of the biggest lessons for me have been: 1) getting someplace on time is not worth compromising our relationship, and 2) that I can always remember to think of two options and pick the best one. And, the next time I can think of an even better option.
>
> So, I would love to know if people have solutions that have worked for them: I'm all ears/eyes! I'd love to find compassionate and/or creative ways to make diapering and dressing something she enjoys - or at least tolerates - and doesn't run away from or suffer through while crying.
>
> I am super grateful for the "voices" of this list's writers in my head nudging me along in a more positive, peaceful, joyful direction.
>
> love, sarah
>
> PS: I know Sparrow isn't yet school age, but I didn't want to miss out on Sandra, Pam(s), Joyce, and Alex's perspective by posting at AlwaysUnschooled, even though I appreciate that discussion, too. (Thank you, Meredith!)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Juliet Kemp
Oh, and I forgot one of the things that works best for us with dressing: politely and quietly asking if he could help ("hey sweetpea, can I have your hand please for a sec?" and touching the hand that I need) and then *waiting* for a bit while he processes it. I often do this when he's playing with something, and he'll swap it between hands and push the other hand through the sleeve that I'm holding out. And then I say thank-you for being helpful and give him a big hug.
Works (often-not-always) with nose-wiping too! But little kids do take longer to process things than grownups so being prepared to wait while he thinks about it is key. (Harder, for me, with nose-wiping than with clothes, because I have to try harder not to be bothered by a snotty nose!)
Juliet
Works (often-not-always) with nose-wiping too! But little kids do take longer to process things than grownups so being prepared to wait while he thinks about it is key. (Harder, for me, with nose-wiping than with clothes, because I have to try harder not to be bothered by a snotty nose!)
Juliet
On 17 Apr 2013, at 19:07, Juliet Kemp <juliet@...> wrote:
> We've done part-time EC with Leon (now 13 months) too. Obviously he's that bit younger, but sometimes he doesn't like to sit on the potty either. Sometimes that just means he doesn't need to go, but sometimes switching it up and holding him over the toilet or even sitting him on it (on the big seat, held securely, or you could use a child seat thingy). So if you haven't tried potty alternatives (even just going outside!) that might be an option. Might she be telling you that she wants to potty learn now? Could it be worth going to training pants or straight to knickers and prepare to clean up some accidents?
>
> As far as nappies go, I often put Leon's on while he's on the move - he doesn't mind the nappy, but he's not keen on the staying still. Singing a song sometimes helps too - we have a couple of songs and sometimes one works and sometimes the other. Or just backing off altogether for a couple of minutes and trying again when he's involved in something and I can squiggle it onto him without stopping his play.
>
> Singing works well for dressing for us, too. Or, again, dressing him around whatever he's playing with. Or playing the "Captain Leon's Adventures in Sleeveland" game (narrating stories about his hand going exploring in Sleeveland, with over dramatic voices and much cheering when the brave hand emerges). Or putting my hand down the sleeve so I can grab his hand and pull the sleeve over it rather than pushing. Or just not putting whatever item of clothing it is on. (I get occasional tellings-off from old ladies about Leon not wearing a hat, but if I've put it on him and he's taken it off I figure he doesn't want it.)
>
>
> Juliet
>
> On 17 Apr 2013, at 15:50, Sarah Stone-Francisco <stone_francisco@...> wrote:
>
>> We practiced a very relaxed form of elimination communication (EC) with Sparrow from two weeks old. It was a beautiful tool for helping us pay attention to her cues and the way she was communicating consciously or unconsciously from the beginning. Around 18 months she started refusing to sit on the potty. We never went diaper free, which is probably one reason why EC didn't end up working the way I had expected it to; I've let go of those expectations, though, and am just grateful that she pees and poops. In the last couple months (she turned two last weekend) she has really, really started fighting having her diaper changed. As long as she doesn't have to lie down, taking them off is fine, but kicks, wriggles and repeatedly declares No! when we try to put the new one on.
>>
>> This strong emotional assertion of her desires and will has been a huge learning opportunity for me. At first, when she would struggle, I would approach it from a perspective like, "I'm the boss, this is going to happen because I say so." Not very team oriented and it never felt very good. That approach set us up as adversaries and always led to me shouting and strong-arming, and Sparrow in tears. I would feel absolutely awful afterwards and seek assurance from my mom and husband that I'm not a bad mother. A bit like the "there, there, you're doing the best you can, being a mother is so hard," platitudes that I feel gratefully wary of after reading this list.
>>
>> Though I was seeking assurances, deep down I knew that I Wasn't doing the best I could, that there Had to be a better way. A few weeks ago I made a commitment to myself not to lose it again over diaper changing.
>>
>> I've been doing well. But we still often have difficulty getting her diapered.
>>
>> A couple examples: One morning the whole process took between one and two hours, so we missed tot gym and our backup plan of meeting people at the children's nature museum. It did end in tears, but they were mine. (She cried, too, but not because I was physically forcing a diaper on her, instead she was crying because i wasn't letting her do other things until she had a diaper on, like crawl under our covers, play in her crib, or go upstairs to eat). However, I never once lost my temper, shouted, or held her down to put a diaper on her. I focused on deep breathing, and a couple times I walked away to break the cycle of our mutually building frustration. Finally, feeling at my wits end I called my mom with tears in my eyes. Funny, she just said a couple words to Sparrow who asked to go upstairs for apple sauce once again, and I said the same thing I had been repeating, "yes, absolutely you can, as soon as we get a diaper on." And she said ok and laid down on the bed.
>>
>> Another time, I had another opportunity to be even gentler. No struggle, she wanted to get under the covers without a diaper, so I just went under there, too, and put the diaper on under there: no struggle at all for either of us. The larger lesson seemed to be more of a transformation in my way of thinking. I'm letting go of my attachment to the idea that, as the parent, it's my job to ensure that I'm "listened to and minded," which I Know is coming from the leftover voices of my own parents in my head. And, in its place is a much kinder perspective that, as her parent, it's my job to see that she has a safe, supportive environment for learning.
>>
>> But we don't always have two hours or the covers to get under. And once her diaper is on, getting dressed is often the same type of struggle. Sometimes I can find that magic thing that she gets interested in enough to let me change her diaper and dress her quickly, gently and in a flow, but more often than not, I cannot find the magic, and while I've changed and remain patient, it still feels like force. (Just no longer the kind that comes from impatience and frustration.)
>>
>> I know I/we can do even better than this and I look forward to your help in figuring that out.
>>
>> So far, two of the biggest lessons for me have been: 1) getting someplace on time is not worth compromising our relationship, and 2) that I can always remember to think of two options and pick the best one. And, the next time I can think of an even better option.
>>
>> So, I would love to know if people have solutions that have worked for them: I'm all ears/eyes! I'd love to find compassionate and/or creative ways to make diapering and dressing something she enjoys - or at least tolerates - and doesn't run away from or suffer through while crying.
>>
>> I am super grateful for the "voices" of this list's writers in my head nudging me along in a more positive, peaceful, joyful direction.
>>
>> love, sarah
>>
>> PS: I know Sparrow isn't yet school age, but I didn't want to miss out on Sandra, Pam(s), Joyce, and Alex's perspective by posting at AlwaysUnschooled, even though I appreciate that discussion, too. (Thank you, Meredith!)
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Mette G.
>>> As long as she doesn't have to lie down, taking them off is fine, but kicks, wriggles and repeatedly declares No! when we try to put the new one on.<<<From a completely practical perspective: have you tried using those pull-up type diapers? My youngest is 2 1/2 and uses those - he can change pee diapers entirely on his own :) I help him with poop diapers, but he fetches and puts on the new diaper himself. I think he likes that autonomy.
Mette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mitrisue
--- In [email protected], Sarah Stone-Francisco <stone_francisco@...> wrote:
<<So, I would love to know if people have solutions that have worked
for them: I'm all ears/eyes! I'd love to find compassionate and/or creative ways to make diapering and dressing something she enjoys - or at least tolerates - and doesn't run away from or suffer through while crying.>>
Does she like to play in the bath? At one time, my son loved the tub so much he was in there five times a day. I'm thinking somewhere you and she are both fine with nakeyness--in the tub or playing pantsless outside. You could offer one of those options after the diaper is off. My kids also loved bathing in big (or even small) plastic bins or other unusual containers.
And then make a game out of getting dressed? My daughter still likes to pretend she's a baby after every bath, get wrapped up in a towel and presented to family members as the new baby, and then get dressed in her "baby clothes."
My daughter just started wanting to wear the same underwear for a long time, but if I offer a bath, it seems to set the reset button and she's fine with changing. Is there any kind of between changing and getting dressed activity that might work the same way for you?
I think you're right on about relaxing on trying to get anywhere on time. It helped with both kids around that age to pretty much have no regular engagements that added pressure to our days.
Wishing you peaceful changes,
Julie
Bernadette Lynn
On 17 April 2013 15:50, Sarah Stone-Francisco
<stone_francisco@...>wrote:
So is it lying down that she doesn't like? Why don't you use pull-ups? You
can get nice cloth pull-ups, and decorative disposables, you could probably
find something she'd like.
By the age of two all my children were wearing knickers or nothing, most of
the time. I had washable waterproof-backed pads on the bed, which could be
easily changed if the bed got wet, and for a while we had them on the
couches as well. We had potties in all the rooms we used frequently, each
with a bath mat under it, so the children could use the potty without
stopping what they were doing, and reach one quickly if they were in a
hurry! The bath mats meant an easy clean up if they missed a bit. I also
had a potty next to the toilet, so when I went the little one could, too,
since they always accompanied me to the toilet anyway.
Bernadette.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<stone_francisco@...>wrote:
> As long as she doesn't have to lie down, taking them off is fine, but======================================
> kicks, wriggles and repeatedly declares No! when we try to put the new one
> on.
So is it lying down that she doesn't like? Why don't you use pull-ups? You
can get nice cloth pull-ups, and decorative disposables, you could probably
find something she'd like.
By the age of two all my children were wearing knickers or nothing, most of
the time. I had washable waterproof-backed pads on the bed, which could be
easily changed if the bed got wet, and for a while we had them on the
couches as well. We had potties in all the rooms we used frequently, each
with a bath mat under it, so the children could use the potty without
stopping what they were doing, and reach one quickly if they were in a
hurry! The bath mats meant an easy clean up if they missed a bit. I also
had a potty next to the toilet, so when I went the little one could, too,
since they always accompanied me to the toilet anyway.
Bernadette.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah McCaffrey
My oldest didn't like getting dressed at around that age, so I took his clothes outside with us with all the other things we needed for the day. Once we were out the front door he was always happy for me to dress him quickly on the doorstep before we got in the car.
Sarah
Sarah
Brynna Rafferty-Brown
I know exactly what you mean about adopting a relaxed approach to EC. Our
little one is 14 months old and we've done the same. I tried going
diaper-free when she was tiny and found myself walking around the house
slightly more tense than usual constantly wondering if she was about to pee
and whether or not I would be paying enough attention to figure out what
cue she was giving me. It didn't take long for me to decide that having a
relaxed mum around was more important than going diaper-free!
When she was about six months I read a few blogs etc. (tribalbaby.org was
my favourite!) about EC being mainly about communication rather than being
diaper-free per se and that some people who fully practice EC from birth
will also have their little ones in diapers the whole time. It gave me a
whole new perspective on EC and I decided to forget about her being
diaper-free and focus on building our communication. Around that time it
was still pretty clear when she'd want to do a poo, so we started picking
her up when we could see she needed to go, taking her nappy off and holding
her over a bucket. We didn't have as much luck with wees, but she now knows
that if she looks at me or my husband when she's ready for a poo we'll help
her out so she doesn't have to get mucky stuff in her nappy :-) we've only
missed a handful since.
Around six months she also started not liking to lie down to have her
diaper changed. Like some other people have already suggested, we took that
on board and I tried sitting her on my lap to change her nappy instead
which she seemed much happier with (along with the occasional crawling
diaper-change on the run!). It was a bit tricky to start with (especially
for other members of the family!) but she hasn't had a diaper changed lying
down since. Knowing my daughter and how independent and curious about the
world she already feels it just felt more respectful to let her keep
playing or watching the world rather than trying to get her to make it
easier for me by lying down.
She's also very recently decided she doesn't like having her diaper on too
often. So we experimented with letting her have it off some of the time.
She still sleeps with us and I noticed that at night she would get
increasingly uncomfortable until she cried out and then drenched her
diaper. With a bit of an uneasy smile from my husband I suggested we try
letting her go diaper-free over night. I put a few extra towels under the
sheet and another one under the two of us for emergency pee-catching... She
peed on me once early on and hasn't since (it's been about two weeks).
Instead I keep a bucket by the bed and when she starts to toss and turn I
hold her over it, make a 'ssss' sound and most of the time she'll pee and
then go back to a much sounder sleep. It turns out she also doesn't like
peeing when sitting in her car seat (which we worked out by stopping when
she was upset. She didn't seem to want a feed and her nappy wasn't wet, but
given the chance she'd happily pee by the side of the road).
I guess the part of our experience that I thought might be helpful is that
if I had paid attention to the 'rules' about when little ones are 'meant'
to potty-train there's no way I would have tried letting her go diaper-free
over night! But every child is different and I don't see the point of
trying to force them to do things too quickly or to try and slow them down.
I think it makes a lot more sense to respond to them when and where they're
at as best we can (that's why I joined this list :-)
Along that line of thought (you might have done this already), maybe your
daughter is ready to move onto something new? Have you tried asking her if
she wants to try using a potty? Or maybe the big toilet? If neither of
them, then maybe wearing training underwear?
The other thought I had was that if her wearing a diaper is important to
you, maybe you could play with it rather than trying to impose it. (*Playful
Parenting <http://www.playfulparenting.com/>* is one of my favourite
books!). Maybe you could make up some silly (or not so silly) ideas about
different ways you could get the diaper on her together. I don't have a two
year old yet, but I'm trying to imagine what I would do if I took our
current approach with our daughter once she can say a few more words. I
only joined this list recently, but my impression of radical unschooling is
that one of its premises is that it's based on the idea of grounding our
families' lives in joy. I can't think of many other ways of making trying
to wear a diaper more joyful than by making it into a game that will let
you both laugh about some silly ideas together.
One last quick point about wearing clothes... maybe you could just let her
choose which clothes (if any!) she wants to wear? Even if it's just for a
few weeks (if you don't feel comfortable about deciding to do it forever)
One of my favourite childhood stories is of a time when my mum went away
for work for two weeks. When she came back she asked my teacher how I'd
been in kindergarten while she was away. My teacher commented that I'd worn
some interesting outfits. It turns out my dad (who really doesn't care much
about what other people think) had let me choose what to wear. I'd chosen a
whole range of weird and wonderful colours, including a few days of not
wanting to wear any pants at all. I don't remember what season it was, but
I'm sure if it was winter and I'd ended up too cold I would have learnt
from it and chosen to wear pants the next day. It didn't seem to do me any
harm and I love remembering it as a story now - a reminder of how free and
strong-willed I was as a little one, just like my daughter is now :-)
--
Lombok Kids www.iced.org.au/lombok-kids
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
little one is 14 months old and we've done the same. I tried going
diaper-free when she was tiny and found myself walking around the house
slightly more tense than usual constantly wondering if she was about to pee
and whether or not I would be paying enough attention to figure out what
cue she was giving me. It didn't take long for me to decide that having a
relaxed mum around was more important than going diaper-free!
When she was about six months I read a few blogs etc. (tribalbaby.org was
my favourite!) about EC being mainly about communication rather than being
diaper-free per se and that some people who fully practice EC from birth
will also have their little ones in diapers the whole time. It gave me a
whole new perspective on EC and I decided to forget about her being
diaper-free and focus on building our communication. Around that time it
was still pretty clear when she'd want to do a poo, so we started picking
her up when we could see she needed to go, taking her nappy off and holding
her over a bucket. We didn't have as much luck with wees, but she now knows
that if she looks at me or my husband when she's ready for a poo we'll help
her out so she doesn't have to get mucky stuff in her nappy :-) we've only
missed a handful since.
Around six months she also started not liking to lie down to have her
diaper changed. Like some other people have already suggested, we took that
on board and I tried sitting her on my lap to change her nappy instead
which she seemed much happier with (along with the occasional crawling
diaper-change on the run!). It was a bit tricky to start with (especially
for other members of the family!) but she hasn't had a diaper changed lying
down since. Knowing my daughter and how independent and curious about the
world she already feels it just felt more respectful to let her keep
playing or watching the world rather than trying to get her to make it
easier for me by lying down.
She's also very recently decided she doesn't like having her diaper on too
often. So we experimented with letting her have it off some of the time.
She still sleeps with us and I noticed that at night she would get
increasingly uncomfortable until she cried out and then drenched her
diaper. With a bit of an uneasy smile from my husband I suggested we try
letting her go diaper-free over night. I put a few extra towels under the
sheet and another one under the two of us for emergency pee-catching... She
peed on me once early on and hasn't since (it's been about two weeks).
Instead I keep a bucket by the bed and when she starts to toss and turn I
hold her over it, make a 'ssss' sound and most of the time she'll pee and
then go back to a much sounder sleep. It turns out she also doesn't like
peeing when sitting in her car seat (which we worked out by stopping when
she was upset. She didn't seem to want a feed and her nappy wasn't wet, but
given the chance she'd happily pee by the side of the road).
I guess the part of our experience that I thought might be helpful is that
if I had paid attention to the 'rules' about when little ones are 'meant'
to potty-train there's no way I would have tried letting her go diaper-free
over night! But every child is different and I don't see the point of
trying to force them to do things too quickly or to try and slow them down.
I think it makes a lot more sense to respond to them when and where they're
at as best we can (that's why I joined this list :-)
Along that line of thought (you might have done this already), maybe your
daughter is ready to move onto something new? Have you tried asking her if
she wants to try using a potty? Or maybe the big toilet? If neither of
them, then maybe wearing training underwear?
The other thought I had was that if her wearing a diaper is important to
you, maybe you could play with it rather than trying to impose it. (*Playful
Parenting <http://www.playfulparenting.com/>* is one of my favourite
books!). Maybe you could make up some silly (or not so silly) ideas about
different ways you could get the diaper on her together. I don't have a two
year old yet, but I'm trying to imagine what I would do if I took our
current approach with our daughter once she can say a few more words. I
only joined this list recently, but my impression of radical unschooling is
that one of its premises is that it's based on the idea of grounding our
families' lives in joy. I can't think of many other ways of making trying
to wear a diaper more joyful than by making it into a game that will let
you both laugh about some silly ideas together.
One last quick point about wearing clothes... maybe you could just let her
choose which clothes (if any!) she wants to wear? Even if it's just for a
few weeks (if you don't feel comfortable about deciding to do it forever)
One of my favourite childhood stories is of a time when my mum went away
for work for two weeks. When she came back she asked my teacher how I'd
been in kindergarten while she was away. My teacher commented that I'd worn
some interesting outfits. It turns out my dad (who really doesn't care much
about what other people think) had let me choose what to wear. I'd chosen a
whole range of weird and wonderful colours, including a few days of not
wanting to wear any pants at all. I don't remember what season it was, but
I'm sure if it was winter and I'd ended up too cold I would have learnt
from it and chosen to wear pants the next day. It didn't seem to do me any
harm and I love remembering it as a story now - a reminder of how free and
strong-willed I was as a little one, just like my daughter is now :-)
--
Lombok Kids www.iced.org.au/lombok-kids
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think it makes a lot more sense to respond to them when and where they're at as best we can (that's why I joined this list :-)
-=-
Sounds good.
Our culture has too long a tradition of NOT listening to children, and not giving them options that it jars even younger parents to consider really paying attention to what they seem to want and need.
-=-I only joined this list recently, but my impression of radical unschooling is
that one of its premises is that it's based on the idea of grounding our
families' lives in joy. I can't think of many other ways of making trying
to wear a diaper more joyful than by making it into a game that will let
you both laugh about some silly ideas together.-=-
Joy in togetherness. Joy in gratitude.
It's hard, with a baby, to get enough rest and time to think an a chance to take a shower. It's hard to believe the baby will grow up and that today's problems won't last long.
-=-One last quick point about wearing clothes... maybe you could just let her
choose which clothes (if any!) she wants to wear? Even if it's just for a
few weeks (if you don't feel comfortable about deciding to do it forever)-=-
There are sometimes when a diaper is really important (for a child likely to have an accident) and other times when it's not good (swimming pool). In between, there's room for lots of flexibility.
A child should be able to choose what to wear within the social, legal and health considerations of the situation. Otherwise, it's good for parents not to be so controlling. If a mom chooses the clothes, and decides when they must go on (even if it takes two hours), will she be able to let children choose other things? Without choices, unschooling isn't going to work well, and maybe not at all.
Here's my favorite Pam Sorooshian quote: "As we get older and our kids grow up, we eventually come to realize that all the big things in our lives are really the direct result of how we've handled all the little things." �Pam Sorooshian, June 4, 2007
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-
Sounds good.
Our culture has too long a tradition of NOT listening to children, and not giving them options that it jars even younger parents to consider really paying attention to what they seem to want and need.
-=-I only joined this list recently, but my impression of radical unschooling is
that one of its premises is that it's based on the idea of grounding our
families' lives in joy. I can't think of many other ways of making trying
to wear a diaper more joyful than by making it into a game that will let
you both laugh about some silly ideas together.-=-
Joy in togetherness. Joy in gratitude.
It's hard, with a baby, to get enough rest and time to think an a chance to take a shower. It's hard to believe the baby will grow up and that today's problems won't last long.
-=-One last quick point about wearing clothes... maybe you could just let her
choose which clothes (if any!) she wants to wear? Even if it's just for a
few weeks (if you don't feel comfortable about deciding to do it forever)-=-
There are sometimes when a diaper is really important (for a child likely to have an accident) and other times when it's not good (swimming pool). In between, there's room for lots of flexibility.
A child should be able to choose what to wear within the social, legal and health considerations of the situation. Otherwise, it's good for parents not to be so controlling. If a mom chooses the clothes, and decides when they must go on (even if it takes two hours), will she be able to let children choose other things? Without choices, unschooling isn't going to work well, and maybe not at all.
Here's my favorite Pam Sorooshian quote: "As we get older and our kids grow up, we eventually come to realize that all the big things in our lives are really the direct result of how we've handled all the little things." �Pam Sorooshian, June 4, 2007
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
When my now 2.2 year old was 15 months or so, she made it very clear that she no longer wanted to wear diapers. I listened to her, and modified our surroundings to suit her new needs. Dd also went diaper free as much as she could, wearing dresses too.
if we were in a supermarket, I would speak gently with her about wearing a diaper around the shops, as an add on i would ask her if she needed to pee pee regularly and found she would hold on while we found a toilet (if one was available) and i could take off her diaper and pop her on the toilet. Speaking gently the whole time and not fretting in any way.
Of a night time i would slip on a night diaper AFTER I had breastfed her naked to sleep.
I dont need to do that anymore.
We placed potties around our living space, have also got a toilet seat she can climb on. She loves to set it up herself, play with the paper in there and calls me when she's ready, if she didn't want me to stay with her.
If your dd doesn't like potties could you perhaps make it fun and relaxed with an iPad or books or singing to her BEING with her while she goes? Also potties might not be her bag and she would get really excited by a folding step kids toilet seat, that happened to my son. Refusing potties, preferring a tree! Then BINGO! we happened apon a super colourful toilet seat which he loved!
I do a lot of extra washing of sheets and towels, i went to the opshop and bought more, AND a great side effect of accidents is that she can see her mama lovingly and patiently clean it up and feel okay about herself and her motions. My awareness of her also is very sharp I can tell when she needs to go, sleeping or not and help her to a zone where she can pee pee or poop comfortably. Be it, on some grass outside if we are playing, to a public toilet if we are out , or the potty or toilet seat at home.
I knew dd wanted to be aware of her bowel movements by the way she showed me she was ready to, by refusing diapering. Listening to your child's cues like that, from the perspective that she is taking her next step in her growth to awareness of her body, and TRUSTing and being available and attentive, I most certainly found it a peaceful and rewarding experience.
She was ready, I listened.
if we were in a supermarket, I would speak gently with her about wearing a diaper around the shops, as an add on i would ask her if she needed to pee pee regularly and found she would hold on while we found a toilet (if one was available) and i could take off her diaper and pop her on the toilet. Speaking gently the whole time and not fretting in any way.
Of a night time i would slip on a night diaper AFTER I had breastfed her naked to sleep.
I dont need to do that anymore.
We placed potties around our living space, have also got a toilet seat she can climb on. She loves to set it up herself, play with the paper in there and calls me when she's ready, if she didn't want me to stay with her.
If your dd doesn't like potties could you perhaps make it fun and relaxed with an iPad or books or singing to her BEING with her while she goes? Also potties might not be her bag and she would get really excited by a folding step kids toilet seat, that happened to my son. Refusing potties, preferring a tree! Then BINGO! we happened apon a super colourful toilet seat which he loved!
I do a lot of extra washing of sheets and towels, i went to the opshop and bought more, AND a great side effect of accidents is that she can see her mama lovingly and patiently clean it up and feel okay about herself and her motions. My awareness of her also is very sharp I can tell when she needs to go, sleeping or not and help her to a zone where she can pee pee or poop comfortably. Be it, on some grass outside if we are playing, to a public toilet if we are out , or the potty or toilet seat at home.
I knew dd wanted to be aware of her bowel movements by the way she showed me she was ready to, by refusing diapering. Listening to your child's cues like that, from the perspective that she is taking her next step in her growth to awareness of her body, and TRUSTing and being available and attentive, I most certainly found it a peaceful and rewarding experience.
She was ready, I listened.
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> When my daughter did not want to wear diapers we went diaper free as much as we could. Wore dresses and training cotton pants that she liked some times.
> It is easy for us because we live in a farm . If there were accidents I cleaned up. I had a little potty in the room we played so it was a good reminder and easy right in front of us.
>
> Going to parks I took extra clothing and underwear and changed it fast ( easy clothing to remove and put back in). You can actually get panties and shorts together!!!!
>
> To sleep I let her sleep naked and then when she was asleep I put diapers on her.
>
> I did a lot of diaper changing while they were up and doing something. As fast as I could. If they did not want to clean up poop a bath is always fun. I never cleaned pee. It is actually healthier for the skin to just let it dry out and not wipe pee.
>
>
> With my son I had special puppets to change diapers, I sang and made up funny stories on top of all the above.
>
> Sometimes I would say we needed to wear the diaper to go somewhere special and because I did not make them wear it all the time or turn into a battle of will they would go with it. Or I took them in the car and placed a plastic bag and some cloth diapers under them between their bottoms and the car seat.
>
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Meredith
Sarah McCaffrey <vardenroad@...> wrote:
Yes! Mine would sometimes dress In the car - shirt and shoes anyway. I kept Mo's shoes in the car for years, and had stashes of clothes, too. Even now I'll sometimes look in the rearview mirror and say "can you switch shirts? that one's really grungy" before we go into a store.
---Meredith
>**************
> My oldest didn't like getting dressed at around that age, so I took his clothes outside with us with all the other things we needed for the day. Once we were out the front door he was always happy for me to dress him quickly on the doorstep before we got in the car.
Yes! Mine would sometimes dress In the car - shirt and shoes anyway. I kept Mo's shoes in the car for years, and had stashes of clothes, too. Even now I'll sometimes look in the rearview mirror and say "can you switch shirts? that one's really grungy" before we go into a store.
---Meredith
Sarah Stone-Francisco
Thank you all for the immensely helpful perspectives and suggestions. Lots to digest!
It was very helpful to be reminded that she probably doesn't need to go out as often. I'm not super happy with our living situation right now, And I'm very social, And I love to plan things. All this has resulted in me filling our weekly schedule with social engagements and activities outside of the house. Because they were centered on her, I didn't realize that perhaps they weren't Entirely For her. Also, in my effort to provide a rich and engaging environment I forgot to really look at her and put her needs first.
Thank you also for pointing out that I've been prioritizing the diaper or the clothes over her happiness and our relationship. It wasn't obvious until it was pointed out to me.
We live with my in-laws (and my husband's two adult brothers), so I'm still struggling with how to simultaneously manage my mother-in-law's concern for her rugs and floor, and her concern that Sparrow be dressed. But I hope with some more time and all the suggestions here I'll find some creative, peaceful, joyful ways!
Thank you again!
love, sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It was very helpful to be reminded that she probably doesn't need to go out as often. I'm not super happy with our living situation right now, And I'm very social, And I love to plan things. All this has resulted in me filling our weekly schedule with social engagements and activities outside of the house. Because they were centered on her, I didn't realize that perhaps they weren't Entirely For her. Also, in my effort to provide a rich and engaging environment I forgot to really look at her and put her needs first.
Thank you also for pointing out that I've been prioritizing the diaper or the clothes over her happiness and our relationship. It wasn't obvious until it was pointed out to me.
We live with my in-laws (and my husband's two adult brothers), so I'm still struggling with how to simultaneously manage my mother-in-law's concern for her rugs and floor, and her concern that Sparrow be dressed. But I hope with some more time and all the suggestions here I'll find some creative, peaceful, joyful ways!
Thank you again!
love, sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Stone-Francisco
Falling asleep last night, I thought more about this and realized that it's actually managing My concern for my in-laws' rugs, floor, couch, house, that I'm struggling with in relation to being more relaxed about accidents.
Even though I'm passed ready to be living elsewhere, I am very grateful for them and the opportunity to live here, and all that has meant for our family, and Sparrow in particular. I find that my concern for showing my gratitude shows up by making sure we keep the house as clean as possible and not do things that would be interpreted as disrespectful (like - in my mind - letting my daughter pee and poop on the ground). I am doing my best to manage it myself and not let my concern spill onto anyone else or make a big deal, and finding joyful, peaceful, creative ways to clean them up and prevent them.
love, sarah
Even though I'm passed ready to be living elsewhere, I am very grateful for them and the opportunity to live here, and all that has meant for our family, and Sparrow in particular. I find that my concern for showing my gratitude shows up by making sure we keep the house as clean as possible and not do things that would be interpreted as disrespectful (like - in my mind - letting my daughter pee and poop on the ground). I am doing my best to manage it myself and not let my concern spill onto anyone else or make a big deal, and finding joyful, peaceful, creative ways to clean them up and prevent them.
love, sarah
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I don't think you should be more relaxed about accidents in your in-laws house. It is their rugs, floor, house.
Try finding a way to keep accidents to a minimum at their house while finding creative ways to diaper your child or some other solution that will take her in consideration and your in-laws home.
I could be relaxed about accidents in my house, my floor, my couch but not if I was in someone else's place. But yes you can still be peaceful and sweet about diapering towards your child while keeping your in=laws home accident free.
I think it is sensible that you are mindful about keeping their home clean and thankful for being there. You may have to be even more creative than someone in their own home.
Maybe she could go with a dress and no pants in the yard? Will the in-laws mind that?
Maybe some quick pull ups or training pants she picks out?
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Sarah Stone-Francisco <stone_francisco@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:59 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Fun with diapers and dressing
Falling asleep last night, I thought more about this and realized that it's actually managing My concern for my in-laws' rugs, floor, couch, house, that I'm struggling with in relation to being more relaxed about accidents.
Even though I'm passed ready to be living elsewhere, I am very grateful for them and the opportunity to live here, and all that has meant for our family, and Sparrow in particular. I find that my concern for showing my gratitude shows up by making sure we keep the house as clean as possible and not do things that would be interpreted as disrespectful (like - in my mind - letting my daughter pee and poop on the ground). I am doing my best to manage it myself and not let my concern spill onto anyone else or make a big deal, and finding joyful, peaceful, creative ways to clean them up and prevent them.
love, sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Try finding a way to keep accidents to a minimum at their house while finding creative ways to diaper your child or some other solution that will take her in consideration and your in-laws home.
I could be relaxed about accidents in my house, my floor, my couch but not if I was in someone else's place. But yes you can still be peaceful and sweet about diapering towards your child while keeping your in=laws home accident free.
I think it is sensible that you are mindful about keeping their home clean and thankful for being there. You may have to be even more creative than someone in their own home.
Maybe she could go with a dress and no pants in the yard? Will the in-laws mind that?
Maybe some quick pull ups or training pants she picks out?
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Sarah Stone-Francisco <stone_francisco@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:59 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Fun with diapers and dressing
Falling asleep last night, I thought more about this and realized that it's actually managing My concern for my in-laws' rugs, floor, couch, house, that I'm struggling with in relation to being more relaxed about accidents.
Even though I'm passed ready to be living elsewhere, I am very grateful for them and the opportunity to live here, and all that has meant for our family, and Sparrow in particular. I find that my concern for showing my gratitude shows up by making sure we keep the house as clean as possible and not do things that would be interpreted as disrespectful (like - in my mind - letting my daughter pee and poop on the ground). I am doing my best to manage it myself and not let my concern spill onto anyone else or make a big deal, and finding joyful, peaceful, creative ways to clean them up and prevent them.
love, sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-We live with my in-laws (and my husband's two adult brothers), so I'm still struggling with how to simultaneously manage my mother-in-law's concern for her rugs and floor, and her concern that Sparrow be dressed. But I hope with some more time and all the suggestions here I'll find some creative, peaceful, joyful ways!-=-
AH... Important information.
Your options are limited when you're in someone else's home.
Remind yourself as often as possible that your philosophy (whatever it might be) doesn't outweigh the fact that you're in someone else's home.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AH... Important information.
Your options are limited when you're in someone else's home.
Remind yourself as often as possible that your philosophy (whatever it might be) doesn't outweigh the fact that you're in someone else's home.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Yatzeck
I can definitely relate to your situation. I've practiced elimination communication (while using diapers) with all three of my children, who are now 7, 4, and daughter who also recently turned 2. All of them went through a phase between 1 and 3 years of age where they refused the potty. Sometimes it lasted many months. I hope it can be reassuring to you that this is normal, and that this will pass.
Both of my daughters preferred to do diaper changes standing up by around 18 months old. We used cloth training pants which were able to pull up and down easily to facilitate this. Right now, we are using these: http://www.cottonbabies.com/product_info.php?cPath=139&products_id=3105 and are pretty happy with them. This is another similar product: http://www.nickisdiapers.com/best-bottom-potty-training-kit.html. Another option would be disposable pull-ups. With my first daughter, we had a lot less spending money and I had a sewing machine, so I sewed our own training pants. They were not as well made as store-bought ones because they were literally the first thing I ever sewed on my own, but they worked decently enough, and were very cheap. If you do a google search for "cloth training pants tutorial" you'll find lots of help.
We also have purchased large sized absorbent cloth pads from this website: http://www.ezwhelp.com/BuyUsedWhelpingPads.htm They even have used ones available at very reasonable prices. We lay them down on top of the sheets at night, and if they have an accident it is much easier on everybody to just change out the pad than to mess with changing all the bedding in the middle of the night. They are also useful during the day. If she really doesn't want to wear a diaper, you can have her play on one of these without worrying about soiling carpets and couches. We bought several so there was always a clean one handy. These are also great as kids get older for when they are battling stomach flu.
Asking her to choose between two different pants to put on, or pants vs. skirt, or pink vs. purple diaper is sometimes helpful with my two year old sometimes-reluctant dresser. Sometimes just letting her be naked for a short while - 10 minutes even - helps. Sometimes I bring her clothes to the car, and we get dressed when we arrive some place. Letting her go without clothes whenever it is appropriate helps, though I can see how this can be harder when sharing a living space with in-laws. Maybe you could tell your in-laws that you are trying a new method of potty training that recommends allowing several hours of bare-bottom time each day? I'm certain I've heard of such methods, and that might make it more palatable to them - that your daughter is naked for a clear purpose, with a clear goal in sight, rather than just one of those crazy naked hippy children! You could even just say you were going to try it for a week and see how it goes to emphasize the temporariness of it. And really, with a two year old, most things are temporary. Like Sandra said, she will only be two for a year. :)
Melissa Yatzeck
Both of my daughters preferred to do diaper changes standing up by around 18 months old. We used cloth training pants which were able to pull up and down easily to facilitate this. Right now, we are using these: http://www.cottonbabies.com/product_info.php?cPath=139&products_id=3105 and are pretty happy with them. This is another similar product: http://www.nickisdiapers.com/best-bottom-potty-training-kit.html. Another option would be disposable pull-ups. With my first daughter, we had a lot less spending money and I had a sewing machine, so I sewed our own training pants. They were not as well made as store-bought ones because they were literally the first thing I ever sewed on my own, but they worked decently enough, and were very cheap. If you do a google search for "cloth training pants tutorial" you'll find lots of help.
We also have purchased large sized absorbent cloth pads from this website: http://www.ezwhelp.com/BuyUsedWhelpingPads.htm They even have used ones available at very reasonable prices. We lay them down on top of the sheets at night, and if they have an accident it is much easier on everybody to just change out the pad than to mess with changing all the bedding in the middle of the night. They are also useful during the day. If she really doesn't want to wear a diaper, you can have her play on one of these without worrying about soiling carpets and couches. We bought several so there was always a clean one handy. These are also great as kids get older for when they are battling stomach flu.
Asking her to choose between two different pants to put on, or pants vs. skirt, or pink vs. purple diaper is sometimes helpful with my two year old sometimes-reluctant dresser. Sometimes just letting her be naked for a short while - 10 minutes even - helps. Sometimes I bring her clothes to the car, and we get dressed when we arrive some place. Letting her go without clothes whenever it is appropriate helps, though I can see how this can be harder when sharing a living space with in-laws. Maybe you could tell your in-laws that you are trying a new method of potty training that recommends allowing several hours of bare-bottom time each day? I'm certain I've heard of such methods, and that might make it more palatable to them - that your daughter is naked for a clear purpose, with a clear goal in sight, rather than just one of those crazy naked hippy children! You could even just say you were going to try it for a week and see how it goes to emphasize the temporariness of it. And really, with a two year old, most things are temporary. Like Sandra said, she will only be two for a year. :)
Melissa Yatzeck
--- In [email protected], Sarah Stone-Francisco <stone_francisco@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you all for the immensely helpful perspectives and suggestions. Lots to digest!
>
> It was very helpful to be reminded that she probably doesn't need to go out as often. I'm not super happy with our living situation right now, And I'm very social, And I love to plan things. All this has resulted in me filling our weekly schedule with social engagements and activities outside of the house. Because they were centered on her, I didn't realize that perhaps they weren't Entirely For her. Also, in my effort to provide a rich and engaging environment I forgot to really look at her and put her needs first.
>
> Thank you also for pointing out that I've been prioritizing the diaper or the clothes over her happiness and our relationship. It wasn't obvious until it was pointed out to me.
>
> We live with my in-laws (and my husband's two adult brothers), so I'm still struggling with how to simultaneously manage my mother-in-law's concern for her rugs and floor, and her concern that Sparrow be dressed. But I hope with some more time and all the suggestions here I'll find some creative, peaceful, joyful ways!
>
> Thank you again!
>
> love, sarah
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>