keetry

As the subject says, my 5 year old doesn't have very clear speech yet. I'm not concerned about it but I've noticed him getting more and more frustrated by it. More and more often I hear him tell people to just nevermind when they ask him to repeat himself. I can usually understand him pretty well but I'm around him all the time and I make an effort to listen and understand. The only other person who can really understand him most of the time is his 8 year old brother.

He can't pronounce consonants in the back of the throat like K and G. He makes T and D sounds for those. I have asked him if he can make those sounds and he says he cannot. He still uses "Me" instead of "I", as in, "Me like that." He says "wuse" instead of "use". He tends to speak very softly and quickly so that his words run together. I've been asking him to speak more loudly and slowly. He sometimes gets angry when I do that but, otherwise, I sometimes can't understand him.

Does anyone have any ideas of what I could do to help with his frustration?

Alysia

Lisa Lanzkron-Tamarazo

When my son was younger, he also had speech issues. It didn't bother him
until he was 7. That was when he first became frustrated by people not
understanding him. At that point, I asked him if he would want to go to
speech therapy so that he could learn how to speak so that others would
understand. He wanted it, so we did it. We didn't take him before that,
because he never seemed bothered by it and we had been told that he would
eventually outgrow it. It may have been beneficial to do it earlier, but
I'm glad we waited until he wanted it. The only problem is that his younger
sisters now speak with some of his former speech patterns because they
learned so much from hearing him!
Lisa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

My daughter had trouble with sounds but so did her grandfather! She
wasn't talking much at 3, was sometimes difficult to understand at 5.
She even made her own words with what she could say ("ogrehogger" for
"motorcycle" for instance). We waited it out and she's been
intelligible for years! I read the book "Late Talking Children" by
Thomas Sowell, which calmed my fears about the speech "delay". I also
knew that she learned things in her own time (not on any "normal"
schedule), so we were willing to wait, while surrounding her with
language, including reading to her a lot and watching TV and movies.

I would interpret for her in situations where she was having trouble
making herself understood, if it was okay with her. I did it lightly
and helpfully. This helped her avoid embarrassment and it gave her
time to develop her speech when she was more physically and mentally
ready. I would head off any difficulties with people who might make a
big deal out of her speech, too. Sort of like a protective bubble in
which she could speak or not.

You might want to ask your son if he'd like you to explain what he's
saying or wants you to intervene for him when you're around other
people. He's only 5, so maybe would be happy with more help from mom.

Pushing him to do more than he's ready to do - "I've been asking him
to speak more loudly and slowly" - is less likely to help. You could
instead make it about you. "*I'm* having difficulty understanding what
you're saying, sweetie, because my ears are too slow. Can you draw it
for me? Show me with your hands? Take me where you want me to go?
Let's get (big brother) to help!"

Maybe try working where he is, not where you think he ought to be.

Robin B.


On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:40 AM, keetry wrote:

> As the subject says, my 5 year old doesn't have very clear speech
> yet. I'm not concerned about it but I've noticed him getting more
> and more frustrated by it. More and more often I hear him tell
> people to just nevermind when they ask him to repeat himself. I can
> usually understand him pretty well but I'm around him all the time
> and I make an effort to listen and understand. The only other person
> who can really understand him most of the time is his 8 year old
> brother.
>
> He can't pronounce consonants in the back of the throat like K and
> G. He makes T and D sounds for those. I have asked him if he can
> make those sounds and he says he cannot. He still uses "Me" instead
> of "I", as in, "Me like that." He says "wuse" instead of "use". He
> tends to speak very softly and quickly so that his words run
> together. I've been asking him to speak more loudly and slowly. He
> sometimes gets angry when I do that but, otherwise, I sometimes
> can't understand him.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas of what I could do to help with his
> frustration?
>
> Alysia
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Alex

My 5yo is many many times more understandable than a year ago, but I still get stuck on certain words or in our noisy car. Something I learned from having extremely hard of hearing elderly relatives was to restate in different words. It really is particularly hard to understand things when the initial consonant sounds different. Yesterday she said squid 3 or 4 before I asked her, "Do you know another way to say that?" She said, "It's like an octopus." Aha! Got it. Conversation about ink resumed. Once in a while I'll playfully repeat back what I thought she said if my best guess was silly, and she'll get a kick out of it. Then she doesn't mind repeating herself, if she still cares about me understanding her original sentence.

Alex N.

Sandra Dodd

When Holly was three or four, we were on a road trip and she was saying "skoy yo" and nobody (not even Marty, her best interpretter) could understand her. The boys asked her questions about it until they figured out she meant "squirrel." Holly couldn't pronounce "r" until she was eight.

You wouldn't know it now.

It's hard to know when to worry and when to wait, but sometimes kids grow up with shielded eyes, and a pained gaze, because too many times when they were little they were told there was something wrong with them.

Holly and others who came up without pressure to hurry up and conform have an advantage in that they were always assure they were fine.

But sometimes a child can use help. Holly asked for help when she was seven, and we knew three speech therapists. We took out to a restaurant so she could talk to Holly and give her ideas. We went to a party where another was, and she asked Holly to help her in the kitchen, and they talked. Both were reassuring, and a little helpful (meaning very helpful, but in small and subtle ways) and Holly felt better.

Sandra

keetry

== It's hard to know when to worry and when to wait, but sometimes kids grow up with shielded eyes, and a pained gaze, because too many times when they were little they were told there was something wrong with them. ==

Like I said before, I'm not concerned about it. I have noticed how his speech has improved and continues to improve. In just the last few days I've noticed him saying something that sounds like, "shtate" rather than "tate" for steak. He used to drop the S in front of words but now he's starting to say it. I consider that a sign that he will be able to pronounce these letters and words when he is able.

I am starting to get bothered by other people's comments, though. I am concerned about how that could affect him, possibly causing him to think there is something wrong with him. It really irks me that virtual strangers think that it's ok to say something to me or my husband about his speech right in front of him. I step in and speak up as much as possible but I'm not always there.

I did ask him if he wanted to get help with his speech because it seemed to me he was getting more and more frustrated that others weren't understanding him. He said he did not. It seems from the couple of posts on here that maybe he'll ask in a couple of years if that's something he decides he wants.

Alysia

keetry

== I would interpret for her in situations where she was having trouble making herself understood, if it was okay with her. ==

I do this.

== I would head off any difficulties with people who might make a
big deal out of her speech, too. Sort of like a protective bubble in which she could speak or not.==

How would you so this, just by quickly interpreting for her? I'm having a hard time with this. I interpret but people say things anyway. I don't always anticipate when someone is going to make a deal out of it. My family doesn't but my In-laws do, sometimes.

== Pushing him to do more than he's ready to do - "I've been asking him to speak more loudly and slowly" - is less likely to help. You could instead make it about you. "*I'm* having difficulty understanding what you're saying, sweetie, because my ears are too slow. Can you draw it for me? Show me with your hands? Take me where you want me to go? Let's get (big brother) to help!"==


I do all of these things. The request to speak more loudly and slowly is mostly in the car when I can't look at him and focus all my attention on what he's saying. He likes to listen to the radio in the car and talk but I have to turn the music off to understand him. He gets angry when I turn the music off. I tell him I can' listen to the music and him at the same time. We listen to CDs so it's not like we'll miss part of a song. I think he doesn't quite understand that yet, though, because once he told me to turn the CD player off before I turned the car off so it would stop playing.

Alysia

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jul 30, 2012, at 6:56 AM, keetry wrote:

> I am starting to get bothered by other people's comments, though. I am concerned about how that could affect him, possibly causing him to think there is something wrong with him.

But there is something wrong with him. He can't speak in a way that everyone can understand. He can't communicate what he wants to other people.

People are giving (harsh) feedback that they can't understand him.

Feedback is good. What is potentially damaging isn't the inability to speak. It's wanting to speak clearly but feeling powerless to do so.

It won't help to see this as not a problem. It will help to look at what he wants to do, what's in his way and what myriad of options there are to help him. Don't try to think in terms of one solution to wipe out the whole thing. A little fix for this situation. Another for a different situation. A big fix that might take care of many situations.

You could keep him away from people as much as you can until he's older and his ability to speak clearly matches what he's willing to put up with.

You could give him the choice each time whether he's willing to put up with people not understanding him.

You could be his translator.

You could search the internet for tips on speech.

You can find a speech therapist.

You could ask the therapist for an exercise or you can do at home until he wants more.

What is he trying to do? What's in his way? How can you help him right now?

Don't try to pretend there isn't a problem. It's muddying your thinking. *He* knows there's a problem and it will feel like you don't care if your goal is protecting him from hurt rather than finding many strategies, finding strategies for each instance, for the big picture, that will help him do what he wants to do.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

A clarity check. It's not criticism, it's a suggestion to look again.

---------------
Like I said before, I'm not concerned about it. I have noticed how his speech has improved and continues to improve. In just the last few days I've noticed him saying something that sounds like, "shtate" rather than "tate" for steak. He used to drop the S in front of words but now he's starting to say it. I consider that a sign that he will be able to pronounce these letters and words when he is able.

I am starting to get bothered by other people's comments, though. I am concerned about how that could affect him, possibly causing him to think there is something wrong with him. It really irks me that virtual strangers think that it's ok to say something to me or my husband about his speech right in front of him. I step in and speak up as much as possible but I'm not always there.
----------------------------

-=-Like I said before, I'm not concerned about it�I am starting to get bothered�I am concerned�I'm not always there.-=-

By pointing this out I don't mean to suggest he needs therapy.
I think you would feel better if you weren't denying your own concern.

Cover for him. Speak for him, when others are there. If you know he won't be understood, you speak for your team.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

This is a text check. I sent something in which I had put elipses, and they turned to epsilons. Sorry about that.
-=-Like I said before, I'm not concerned about it � I am starting to get bothered. . .I am concerned . . . I'm not always there.-=-

Now I've typed them three different ways, space�space, spaces between but not after letters, and all spaced. Testing. And I'm sorry to be doing this, but I post a lot, and I have a new computer and I'm not sure why that would've happened.


ON ANOTHER but harmonizing NOTE:

I've just responded to side mail about a husband losing steam in his marriage and parenting beause his preferences and worries were being ignored.

Just in case, in the situation of a child not speaking clearly, the husband's preferences are being ignored, please don't do that.

And a note to anyone and everyone reading this:

In any case, don't blow off half of your parenting team. If you do, what can happen in very little time is that the "parenting team" becomes a battleground of you, your new partner, your ex, and his-or-her new partner, all arguing about your children, and having just about as much legal right over how they dress and act and where they go and what they do as you yourself have, so live sweetly and wisely and don't screw it up.

Unschooling can be fantastic, but if a parent fumbles awkwardly with it and ruins a marriage or a stable relationship, then it wasn't at all fantastic, it was awful. And it wasn't the unschooling. It was the awkward fumbling.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pushpa Ramachandran

I am a speech pathologist and a unschooling mom-in-training

Throwing some ideas out there, if they are not in line with the philosophy
of this list (am still learning) please ignore this..

This is in response to Joyce's email to consider getting therapy>>

There are many "games" that can be played to help this kind of speech issue
that can be fun and not critical of the child's speech in nature. If your
son is willing to play "games" just like playing "word games"- sometime all
it takes it for that "internal rule" to get presented a certain way for the
child to figure out the difference for themselves e.g., replacing the T and
D with a K and G.. Again only if he might be interested in trying out the
game ! If it clicks, it clicks and the result is almost instantaneous for
many children.. if it doesn't - it would be a game that you guys played and
you never play it again because he did'nt like it.

And like Joyce said, there are many simple things you could do at home
(again if he is wanting help figuring out making that sound) that you could
do at home without actually having to take him to some sort of formal
therapy...

I have had experiences where children are relieved that some one is trying
to help them especially when they are very frustrated. Not always, but I
have had them.

Thanks,

Pushpa



On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2012, at 6:56 AM, keetry wrote:
>
> > I am starting to get bothered by other people's comments, though. I am
> concerned about how that could affect him, possibly causing him to think
> there is something wrong with him.
>
> But there is something wrong with him. He can't speak in a way that
> everyone can understand. He can't communicate what he wants to other people.
>
> People are giving (harsh) feedback that they can't understand him.
>
> Feedback is good. What is potentially damaging isn't the inability to
> speak. It's wanting to speak clearly but feeling powerless to do so.
>
> It won't help to see this as not a problem. It will help to look at what
> he wants to do, what's in his way and what myriad of options there are to
> help him. Don't try to think in terms of one solution to wipe out the whole
> thing. A little fix for this situation. Another for a different situation.
> A big fix that might take care of many situations.
>
> You could keep him away from people as much as you can until he's older
> and his ability to speak clearly matches what he's willing to put up with.
>
> You could give him the choice each time whether he's willing to put up
> with people not understanding him.
>
> You could be his translator.
>
> You could search the internet for tips on speech.
>
> You can find a speech therapist.
>
> You could ask the therapist for an exercise or you can do at home until he
> wants more.
>
> What is he trying to do? What's in his way? How can you help him right now?
>
> Don't try to pretend there isn't a problem. It's muddying your thinking.
> *He* knows there's a problem and it will feel like you don't care if your
> goal is protecting him from hurt rather than finding many strategies,
> finding strategies for each instance, for the big picture, that will help
> him do what he wants to do.
>
> Joyce
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pushpa Ramachandran

Sorry, as soon as I sent this I realized what I wrote could be
misinterpreted..
I didnt mean Joyce was asking you to consider getting therapy..

Was just writing wrt to it being one of the ideas!

Thanks again.
Pushpa

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Pushpa Ramachandran
<pushpa2812@...>wrote:

> I am a speech pathologist and a unschooling mom-in-training
>
> Throwing some ideas out there, if they are not in line with the philosophy
> of this list (am still learning) please ignore this..
>
> This is in response to Joyce's email to consider getting therapy>>
>
> There are many "games" that can be played to help this kind of speech
> issue that can be fun and not critical of the child's speech in nature. If
> your son is willing to play "games" just like playing "word games"-
> sometime all it takes it for that "internal rule" to get presented a
> certain way for the child to figure out the difference for themselves e.g.,
> replacing the T and D with a K and G.. Again only if he might be interested
> in trying out the game ! If it clicks, it clicks and the result is almost
> instantaneous for many children.. if it doesn't - it would be a game that
> you guys played and you never play it again because he did'nt like it.
>
> And like Joyce said, there are many simple things you could do at home
> (again if he is wanting help figuring out making that sound) that you could
> do at home without actually having to take him to some sort of formal
> therapy...
>
> I have had experiences where children are relieved that some one is trying
> to help them especially when they are very frustrated. Not always, but I
> have had them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pushpa
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 30, 2012, at 6:56 AM, keetry wrote:
>>
>> > I am starting to get bothered by other people's comments, though. I am
>> concerned about how that could affect him, possibly causing him to think
>> there is something wrong with him.
>>
>> But there is something wrong with him. He can't speak in a way that
>> everyone can understand. He can't communicate what he wants to other people.
>>
>> People are giving (harsh) feedback that they can't understand him.
>>
>> Feedback is good. What is potentially damaging isn't the inability to
>> speak. It's wanting to speak clearly but feeling powerless to do so.
>>
>> It won't help to see this as not a problem. It will help to look at what
>> he wants to do, what's in his way and what myriad of options there are to
>> help him. Don't try to think in terms of one solution to wipe out the whole
>> thing. A little fix for this situation. Another for a different situation.
>> A big fix that might take care of many situations.
>>
>> You could keep him away from people as much as you can until he's older
>> and his ability to speak clearly matches what he's willing to put up with.
>>
>> You could give him the choice each time whether he's willing to put up
>> with people not understanding him.
>>
>> You could be his translator.
>>
>> You could search the internet for tips on speech.
>>
>> You can find a speech therapist.
>>
>> You could ask the therapist for an exercise or you can do at home until
>> he wants more.
>>
>> What is he trying to do? What's in his way? How can you help him right
>> now?
>>
>> Don't try to pretend there isn't a problem. It's muddying your thinking.
>> *He* knows there's a problem and it will feel like you don't care if your
>> goal is protecting him from hurt rather than finding many strategies,
>> finding strategies for each instance, for the big picture, that will help
>> him do what he wants to do.
>>
>> Joyce
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Sorry, as soon as I sent this I realized what I wrote could be misinterpreted.. I didnt mean Joyce was asking you to consider getting therapy..-=-

To anyone who might be thinking about speech therapy, and who is wary of becoming involved with local school districts or social services, Pushpa does therapy by skype from her home in India. She lived in the US for many years and has a great American accent. I know her personally; I've been in her home where I gave a presentation on attachment parenting for a large group of people (with Schuyler and David Waynforth being projected on the wall by Skype, helping out).

When Holly was a 40+hour-a-week caregiver for an eight year old girl, Pushpa spoke with Holly for an hour one day and her ideas were really fantastic, and the questions she asked about other aspects of the girl's abilities would have helped Holly help her in other ways, too. Unfortunately, the widowed father put the girl in school very soon after that. But I was in the room during the conversation and learned a lot myself, not only about the girl's physical behaviors other than just the speech (when we had cut gallons of water with swords when she was over, she could only touch the gallon, not cut it, so it was not just a verbal thing, but had to do with overall abilities), but I learned about Pushpa's depth of knowledge, too, and her willingness to help even indirectly that way.

There's a bio/CV of her here: http://www.aphasianyc.org/tmwag.htm

So while I'm advertising my friends' useful businesses, if there is a dad needing personal coaching on balancing a family and career, and would like to feel more connected with his children, since it came up on facebook yesterday by chance and I didn't name him, Graham Dusseldorp can counsel in his native Dutch or his damned-impressive American-accented English. ("Canadian" he says. Because his wife, Rippy, who writes on this list sometimes, is Canadian and he likes her. I do too.
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2012/07/rippys-family-in-leiden.html )
This is Graham's little second job. His main job is a consultant for the government of the Netherlands.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pushpa Ramachandran

Thanks Sandra. You are too kind.

While I am happy to help, I just got an email through a member of this
group subsequent to posting my message asking for details/info about "word
games" for their "13 year old who still has a speech issue". It would be
very tough for me to even begin to answer such a question and not a good
use of my time.. with just that many details..

If anybody does wish me to help somebody please get in touch with me so we
could set up a time to talk about your child, otherwise I may not be able
to help in a way that will be useful to the child/parent or be ethical to
my profession..

Thanks again,

Pushpa


On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> -=-Sorry, as soon as I sent this I realized what I wrote could be
> misinterpreted.. I didnt mean Joyce was asking you to consider getting
> therapy..-=-
>
> To anyone who might be thinking about speech therapy, and who is wary of
> becoming involved with local school districts or social services, Pushpa
> does therapy by skype from her home in India. She lived in the US for many
> years and has a great American accent. I know her personally; I've been in
> her home where I gave a presentation on attachment parenting for a large
> group of people (with Schuyler and David Waynforth being projected on the
> wall by Skype, helping out).
>
> When Holly was a 40+hour-a-week caregiver for an eight year old girl,
> Pushpa spoke with Holly for an hour one day and her ideas were really
> fantastic, and the questions she asked about other aspects of the girl's
> abilities would have helped Holly help her in other ways, too.
> Unfortunately, the widowed father put the girl in school very soon after
> that. But I was in the room during the conversation and learned a lot
> myself, not only about the girl's physical behaviors other than just the
> speech (when we had cut gallons of water with swords when she was over, she
> could only touch the gallon, not cut it, so it was not just a verbal thing,
> but had to do with overall abilities), but I learned about Pushpa's depth
> of knowledge, too, and her willingness to help even indirectly that way.
>
> There's a bio/CV of her here: http://www.aphasianyc.org/tmwag.htm
>
> So while I'm advertising my friends' useful businesses, if there is a dad
> needing personal coaching on balancing a family and career, and would like
> to feel more connected with his children, since it came up on facebook
> yesterday by chance and I didn't name him, Graham Dusseldorp can counsel in
> his native Dutch or his damned-impressive American-accented English.
> ("Canadian" he says. Because his wife, Rippy, who writes on this list
> sometimes, is Canadian and he likes her. I do too.
> http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2012/07/rippys-family-in-leiden.html )
> This is Graham's little second job. His main job is a consultant for the
> government of the Netherlands.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrea Q

That's an excellent point. It's often challenging to figure things out through email.

One of my girls had tongue thrust. I had no idea what the challenge was, but knew that she had trouble making a lot of sounds and she was very frustrated by her speech. We went to a private speech therapist that identified the problem in just a few minutes. We avoided the school system all together, but it would have been even better to have someone Skype into our living room!

Andrea Q

--- In [email protected], Pushpa Ramachandran <pushpa2812@...> wrote:
>
>
> While I am happy to help, I just got an email through a member of this
> group subsequent to posting my message asking for details/info about "word
> games" for their "13 year old who still has a speech issue". It would be
> very tough for me to even begin to answer such a question and not a good
> use of my time.. with just that many details..