Alysia

==Are there some specific examples you can give?==

It's a bit of a moot point for me now since my husband just left again for another 2 months. He was only home for about a month after a year in Afghanistan. Anyway, here are the two main examples that came up while he was home.

Food, of course. He wanted everyone sit down together for dinner. That's fine with me. I like that. But, he tried to insist that the boys eat a certain amount of almost everything he made. Interestingly, he was most pushy about the protein/meat than the veggies whereas I am more likely to make more effort to get the boys to eat vaggies. He would get angry if the boys didn't eat everything or at least some of each thing. He would put way too much food on their plates, though, as far as I was concerned. I offered to help but he wanted to do it all.


He looks at me while he's supposedly talking to the boys about what he wants them to do and why. He's looking to me to back him up but I don't really want to get into power struggles with them over eating 3 bites of chicken or whatever. Eventually, he got so frustrated by it that he quit doing anything. It went from him piling food on their plates and trying to make them eat it all to him not even bothering to give them anything. I did tell him at other times that he was putting too much food on their plates, especially the 4 year old's. I've told him the same thing about my plate. He finally came to accept that I would make my own plate but
he can't seem to get there with the boys.

Last night he made chicken soup and asked me if I wanted to call the boys in for dinner or if we should just let them play. I said that I didn't really care because I knew they'd eat eventually. He didn't say anything else about it and didn't even tell the boys that dinner was ready. I did holler outside to them that dinner was ready and they came in to eat. I didn't tell them they had to, just that it was ready. I don't understand why my husband doesn't (can't?) do that.

Bedtime was another thing he wanted to do. He wanted to get the boys ready for bed while I took care of the baby. He would go upstairs with them around 9 and was supposed to be getting them to brush their teeth and maybe read some books or whatever and get them settled into bed before I came up with the baby. I'd wait an hour and go up (because the baby is a late nighter) and the boys would still be bouncing off the walls, no teeth brushed, nothing. My husband would be standing in the middle of the room repeatedly yelling at them to brush their teeth but not really doing anything about it. He would get more and more frustrated and angry that they weren't doing what he said. Sometimes one or the other would be crying. It was just awful and certainly not a peaceful way to try to get the baby to sleep.

I told my husband numerous times that, especially with the 4 year old, he had to actively engage with him to get him to do things. If you want him to brush his teeth, gently take him into the bathroom, hand him his toothbrush and stand there with him while he brushes. Maybe even brush your own teeth at the same time. Sitting on the edge of the bed watching ESPN while peripherally yelling at him to brush his teeth just isn't going to work.


The 8 year old will do it if you give him options, like waiting for the next commercial or until he's done reading the page or whatever he's doing but he sometimes needs to be reminded. My husband wouldn't allow for that. He just expected him to do it as soon as he was told regardless of what else he might be doing.

Again, I offered to do it but my husband wanted to. He'd been gone a long time and he wanted to get back  into taking care of the kids like that. I want to support that but it's hard when he's doing things that I don't agree with.


He is an academic unschooler, too. It took a few years but he now truly believes in unschooling academics because he's had time to see how it works with our kids. He can't seem to make that leap to the rest of life. I don't think he knows or understands much about how young children behave. He only knows how they are expected to behave. So, any time they do anything that is deemed unacceptable (and embarrasses him in public), like crying because he doesn't buy them a candy bar at the store, he thinks it's because radical unschooling is too permissive.

I've tried to show him but he's not home enough to see how things started and may have changed. I've tried explaining it to him but he won't accept it. I email him things to read (like Sandra's links) and ask him to read books on have, not just on unschooling but also on child development and behavior. He says he doesn't have time and that everything I give him supports my position but he doesn't make an effort to learn about anything else.
 
Alysia

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Sandra Dodd

-=-It's a bit of a moot point for me now since my husband just left again for another 2 months. He was only home for about a month after a year in Afghanistan.-=-

Whoa. Did you mention that before?
In two months, might you not need some of the ideas you could get here? How its it a moot point, if he'll be coming back in two months?

Maybe you could get to an unschooling conference and he could see other unschoolers and meet some of the dads.

-=-Last night he made chicken soup and asked me if I wanted to call the boys in for dinner or if we should just let them play. I said that I didn't really care because I knew they'd eat eventually.-=-

Had you said cheerily "I think we should just let them play, and have some time alone," that would have been sweet and personal, and would have modelled a way you might like for him to be. "I don't really care" (in any form) could have sounded like you didn't care about the food, about him, about his question, about how he treated the kids...

-=- I didn't tell them they had to, just that it was ready. I don't understand why my husband doesn't (can't?) do that.-=-

Perhaps instead of hollering, you could have gone where they were and said there was come chicken soup their dad had made, and if they wanted some now it was ready, and if they wanted to keep playing you could heat some up for them later. Sweetly.

Sandra




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Sandra Dodd

-=-I told my husband numerous times that, especially with the 4 year old, he had to actively engage with him to get him to do things. -=-

He doesn't have to.
He doesn't have to actively engage with them.

If you've told him numerous times what he "has to" do, that could easily be making things worse.

Please hear when you say or think "have to." Not just on this list, but in your heart and soul.
http://sandradodd.com/haveto

It might help if he brushed his own teeth with the four year old, at the same time.
You might say "Sometimes it helps to..."

But there are a million moms who know that their husbands not only do not "HAVE TO," but they physically can't. Your husband came back from Afghanistan healthy enough to cook soup and help you with the kids. Not all did. He came home. Not all do. If you have created a nest that has room for you and the kids and not for him, he might be less inclined to come back even if he can, in the future.

-=-He'd been gone a long time and he wanted to get back into taking care of the kids like that. I want to support that but it's hard when he's doing things that I don't agree with. -=-

Then appeal to the kids to cooperate with him while he's home, and to be nice, for your sake. For his sake. For the goodness of their own souls.

-=-He is an academic unschooler, too. It took a few years but he now truly believes in unschooling academics because he's had time to see how it works with our kids. -=-

That's progress. He could be a dad who says "See? This is because they aren't in school." He's further along than some husbands are.

-=- I don't think he knows or understands much about how young children behave. He only knows how they are expected to behave.-=-

Get around a conference, or find some way to get around other young children.

-=-He says he doesn't have time and that everything I give him supports my position but he doesn't make an effort to learn about anything else.-=-

Maybe you could send some things that support his position, or go past it. Things about the harm that comes from crying, and deprivation, and disconnects between parents and kids, and say "I don't want it to get like this at our house."

Sandra

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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

What about you help , without criticizing or making any comments, your husband get the kids to brush his teeth and go to bed?
What about being his partner the same way you want him to be with your children. 
The man was gone for a year and home for only a month. I would have  helped him get the kids to bed, their teeth brushed.
I would have talked to my kids to come sit in the table and eat with dad. 
Dad being home is special, your kids should know this.
When my husband comes in from working really hard all day ( and he works everyday of the year , no mater what weather or if he is sick, from 4:30AM until 8-9 PM ) and wants to watch a game on the TV downstairs I tell my daughter Gigi that and to let dad watch it. She can watch SpongeBob all day long, on the other 2 tvs or Netflix streaming ( same episode even!).
 


 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


________________________________
From: Alysia <keetry@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 11:19 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: When your partner does things differently


 
==Are there some specific examples you can give?==

It's a bit of a moot point for me now since my husband just left again for another 2 months. He was only home for about a month after a year in Afghanistan. Anyway, here are the two main examples that came up while he was home.

Food, of course. He wanted everyone sit down together for dinner. That's fine with me. I like that. But, he tried to insist that the boys eat a certain amount of almost everything he made. Interestingly, he was most pushy about the protein/meat than the veggies whereas I am more likely to make more effort to get the boys to eat vaggies. He would get angry if the boys didn't eat everything or at least some of each thing. He would put way too much food on their plates, though, as far as I was concerned. I offered to help but he wanted to do it all.

He looks at me while he's supposedly talking to the boys about what he wants them to do and why. He's looking to me to back him up but I don't really want to get into power struggles with them over eating 3 bites of chicken or whatever. Eventually, he got so frustrated by it that he quit doing anything. It went from him piling food on their plates and trying to make them eat it all to him not even bothering to give them anything. I did tell him at other times that he was putting too much food on their plates, especially the 4 year old's. I've told him the same thing about my plate. He finally came to accept that I would make my own plate but
he can't seem to get there with the boys.

Last night he made chicken soup and asked me if I wanted to call the boys in for dinner or if we should just let them play. I said that I didn't really care because I knew they'd eat eventually. He didn't say anything else about it and didn't even tell the boys that dinner was ready. I did holler outside to them that dinner was ready and they came in to eat. I didn't tell them they had to, just that it was ready. I don't understand why my husband doesn't (can't?) do that.

Bedtime was another thing he wanted to do. He wanted to get the boys ready for bed while I took care of the baby. He would go upstairs with them around 9 and was supposed to be getting them to brush their teeth and maybe read some books or whatever and get them settled into bed before I came up with the baby. I'd wait an hour and go up (because the baby is a late nighter) and the boys would still be bouncing off the walls, no teeth brushed, nothing. My husband would be standing in the middle of the room repeatedly yelling at them to brush their teeth but not really doing anything about it. He would get more and more frustrated and angry that they weren't doing what he said. Sometimes one or the other would be crying. It was just awful and certainly not a peaceful way to try to get the baby to sleep.

I told my husband numerous times that, especially with the 4 year old, he had to actively engage with him to get him to do things. If you want him to brush his teeth, gently take him into the bathroom, hand him his toothbrush and stand there with him while he brushes. Maybe even brush your own teeth at the same time. Sitting on the edge of the bed watching ESPN while peripherally yelling at him to brush his teeth just isn't going to work.

The 8 year old will do it if you give him options, like waiting for the next commercial or until he's done reading the page or whatever he's doing but he sometimes needs to be reminded. My husband wouldn't allow for that. He just expected him to do it as soon as he was told regardless of what else he might be doing.

Again, I offered to do it but my husband wanted to. He'd been gone a long time and he wanted to get back  into taking care of the kids like that. I want to support that but it's hard when he's doing things that I don't agree with.

He is an academic unschooler, too. It took a few years but he now truly believes in unschooling academics because he's had time to see how it works with our kids. He can't seem to make that leap to the rest of life. I don't think he knows or understands much about how young children behave. He only knows how they are expected to behave. So, any time they do anything that is deemed unacceptable (and embarrasses him in public), like crying because he doesn't buy them a candy bar at the store, he thinks it's because radical unschooling is too permissive.

I've tried to show him but he's not home enough to see how things started and may have changed. I've tried explaining it to him but he won't accept it. I email him things to read (like Sandra's links) and ask him to read books on have, not just on unschooling but also on child development and behavior. He says he doesn't have time and that everything I give him supports my position but he doesn't make an effort to learn about anything else.
 
Alysia

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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

=-He'd been gone a long time and he wanted to get back into taking care of the kids like that. I want to support that but it's hard when he's doing things that I don't agree with. -=-

Then appeal to the kids to cooperate with him while he's home, and to be nice, for your sake. For his sake. For the goodness of their own souls. 


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

That is what I was thinking. That is what I would do.
And how wonderful that after a whole year away in war he came back wanting and willing to take care of the children.
help him . easy him in, be grateful for it. Let him know you are grateful and help him gently and sweetly.
 Plus Sandra has some things written by a military unschooling dad.
http://sandradodd.com/benlovejoy%c2%a0


Meeting Ben, for my husband, was a huge influence. He really loves the guy!
 
Alex Polikowsky

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Robin Bentley

>
> The 8 year old will do it if you give him options, like waiting for
> the next commercial or until he's done reading the page or whatever
> he's doing but he sometimes needs to be reminded. My husband
> wouldn't allow for that. He just expected him to do it as soon as he
> was told regardless of what else he might be doing.

This reminded me of something that might help to understand where your
husband is coming from.

My dad was an officer in the Navy. He was used to having his commands
obeyed. Life has a completely different atmosphere in the armed
forces; it was like culture shock when he came home. My mum was not a
radical unschooler <g>, but it was hard for her to ease my dad back
into family life after being immersed in the Navy.

> Again, I offered to do it but my husband wanted to. He'd been gone a
> long time and he wanted to get back into taking care of the kids
> like that. I want to support that but it's hard when he's doing
> things that I don't agree with.

It sounds like he really wants to connect, but can only do it the best
he can, given his circumstances. He has a steep learning curve when he
gets home!
>
> He is an academic unschooler, too. It took a few years but he now
> truly believes in unschooling academics because he's had time to see
> how it works with our kids. He can't seem to make that leap to the
> rest of life. I don't think he knows or understands much about how
> young children behave. He only knows how they are expected to behave.

Lots of dads (and moms, too) have a hard time with this because often
we came from families with specific expectations, ourselves. We only
know what we lived and it takes some mind-changing to do things
differently. Moms often have more time (and impetus) to do that
because we're with the kids all the time.

> So, any time they do anything that is deemed unacceptable (and
> embarrasses him in public), like crying because he doesn't buy them
> a candy bar at the store, he thinks it's because radical unschooling
> is too permissive.

It might seem so to him, since that's all he knows of your life
without him.
>
> I've tried to show him but he's not home enough to see how things
> started and may have changed. I've tried explaining it to him but he
> won't accept it. I email him things to read (like Sandra's links)
> and ask him to read books on have, not just on unschooling but also
> on child development and behavior.

He might have more time to read your own personal day-to-day writings.
Start a blog or a "letter to Dad" where you not only tell him what
you're doing but *how* you're doing it. Write about any difficulties
you had and how you handled it (good or not-so). Include him in your
parenting, even though he's away - like making the chicken soup like
he does, or doing something he likes to do with the kids. Inject him
into your lives, so it's not such a shock to everyone when he gets home.

My brother (at 3) thought my dad was a stranger and gave him his cap
to go when dad was home on leave from the war. My mum realized my
brother only knew him as a photo on a chest of drawers! She was more
proactive in keeping my dad a part of our lives after that.

Robin B.

P.S. Here's a blog post by a Naval officer who went to an unschooling
conference/waterpark gathering to add to Ben's writings: http://seanheritage.blogspot.com/2010/02/waterpark-educational-development-and.html

jenny.wren76

*********************************************************************

--- In [email protected], Alysia <keetry@...> wrote:
>
> ==Are there some specific examples you can give?==
>
> It's a bit of a moot point for me now since my husband just left again for another 2 months. He was only home for about a month after a year in Afghanistan. Anyway, here are the two main examples that came up while he was home.
**********************************************************************


In the Navy they offer 'classes' on the ships for service members to coach them on how to reintegrate back into family life after being deployed. Do they offer anything like that in your husband's service?
I think they basically point out things like the fact that the kids are used to things being run by mom, and it's not really reasonable to expect to come back home and pick up the reins. Stuff like that. If I were you I'd ask around about that and mention to my husband while he's deployed again- maybe he'd be able to easily accept such information coming from official channels as opposed to 'just' coming from you.

Jenn

Joyce Fetteroll

On Apr 16, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Robin Bentley wrote:

> Start a blog or a "letter to Dad" where you not only tell him what
> you're doing but *how* you're doing it. Write about any difficulties
> you had and how you handled it (good or not-so). Include him in your
> parenting, even though he's away

I wanted to pull this out since it was at the bottom of Robin's post.

Let him see the process you're going through to get to what you've found that works. Let him see the things that don't work and what you learn about who your kids are from that. Let him see how you use that knowledge to find something that works.

This would give him an opportunity to see what you're doing without it being about what he's doing wrong (which will make him defensive and shut down). He can then let the ideas turn over inside of him and swirl around.

(Of course make it a daily life thing too! And a way to keep everyone connected. Not just about parenting.)

Joyce

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Sandra Dodd

-=-In the Navy they offer 'classes' on the ships for service members to coach them on how to reintegrate back into family life after being deployed. Do they offer anything like that in your husband's service?-=-

Aren't there similar offerings for military wives? These days there are probably options of counseling and websites and support groups.

Sandra

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Alysia

Since my husband is gone, I don't know how much I'll be able to keep up with this group again right now. It's already taken me a few days to get through the replies to my last post. I probably won't remember everything that I wanted to respond to. My email isn't quoting what I'm replying to in this group and I haven't figured out why yet.


I didn't mention him coming and going because we thought he was home for at least a year. Him getting orders to leave again was very sudden and unexpected. I was (am) a bit angry and frustrated about it.

He does get reintegration classes and seminars are available for spouses and children as well. We took a couple of weeks to let him ease into things. He's really good at sitting back and watching for a while, not immediately trying to be in charge. I do think there are some issues with him being used to giving orders and having them unquestionably followed at work, especially when he's been immersed only in the military lifestyle for so long, and then switching to family mode. We've talked about that.


He likes to cook dinner and wanted to do bedtime with the boys. Those weren't things that I pushed on him and I didn't initially try to tell him how to do it. It was only after several days of them having trouble that I tried to help. I agree that my wording probably could have been better. I don't really remember exactly what I said to him. 

I would love for us to go to a conference. I've been trying to get to one for years but he has always been gone. This was supposed to be our year home together followed by another 2-3 years with him in a non-deployable job.

 
Alysia

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