yoginidharma

I went in the archives to see what came up and found alot of intersting stuff on jealousy. What i was looking for though was uses of jelousy as a form of flattery, because I just dont get it. The majority of the time when i talk to the people in life,(with the exception of just a handfull of brilliant ispirining people i have the great fortune of conversing with occasionally)they allways respond to my dreams ambitions and accomplishments with "Oh i'm so jelous". Quite frankly i'm getting tired of it. If you look at me, im not an outstanding and accomplished person, I am trying to be though and the energy of jealousy ( or so called )is not very inspiring. When i was growing up I did not have much, my shoes generally had holes in them, i had a few outfits that i had to keep clean and wear all the time and we only went on vacation twice as a family. I was abused with in the school system physically and sexually and just feel drained for the most part when i am complimented in the name of jelousy. I never harbored Jealousy despite for what seemed the lack of what i had, I think i grew to appreciate what i did have. Now it seems when jelousy in the form of a compliment is directed toward me its usually because i am doing somthing that they have allready done before and know how wonderfull it is, thats annoying. So whats the deal, do any of you use jealousy as a form of flattery and can enlighten me to its uses ? Is it really that common of a phrase or am i just associating with the wrong people. Or do I just need to suck it up becuase mostly everybody uses it and try to find some way to make it work for me ?

I noticed parents teaching children to be jealous when they admire somthing another child has and dont know exactly how to express the fact that they think they might enjoy having one of their own and may push or grab to get it. The parents swoop up the child and say somthing like "why are you so jealous, be nice" Thats annoying to watch. That happened recently and i tried to address the issue and got blown off. I dont even think my children know the word jealousy, although they are allways surprising me with things i had no idea they knew.
Any takers ? Does this bring to mind any thoughts for anyone?

Joyce Fetteroll

On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:51 AM, yoginidharma wrote:

> Is it really that common of a phrase or am i just associating with
> the wrong people.

I've heard it quite a bit.

> Or do I just need to suck it up becuase mostly everybody uses it

Sucking it up doesn't sound nearly as good as letting it go.

Sounds like you're getting upset because you want people to stop. But
you don't have the power to do that.

This is useful for dealing with most human foibles: Unless someone's
harming or disturbing people, breathe. Let them be who they are.
Everyone has different ways of coping with life. The roots of their
behavior may lie deep in childhood and won't be easily uprooted. And
if you react poorly they're likely to think you're not very nice.

> and try to find some way to make it work for me ?

It's good to judge what other people do as either something you'd like
to adopt or something you'd like to avoid (or change about yourself.)
Why would you want something you find annoying to work for you?

> I never harbored Jealousy despite for what seemed the lack of what i
> had


Sounds a bit superior though. You're implying you probably had it
worse growing up than the "jealous" people but managed to be a better
person than they are.

Different personality, different upbringing, yields different results.

> The parents swoop up the child and say somthing like "why are you so
> jealous, be nice" Thats annoying to watch.


I find the majority of conventional parenting practices to be
irritating so I avoid as much as I can places where there are likely
to be parents doing that kind of stuff. I really don't need that
stress in my life!

Obviously if you have a young child, that's harder to do! See if you
can gravitate towards groups of parents who do that less and do lots
of breathing. Perhaps picture that they're doing better than the
parents who are smacking their children for the same kind of thing.

Joyce

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 5, 2011, at 8:51 AM, yoginidharma wrote:
****
> So whats the deal, do any of you use jealousy as a form of flattery and can enlighten me to its uses ? Is it really that common of a phrase or am i just associating with the wrong people. Or do I just need to suck it up becuase mostly everybody uses it and try to find some way to make it work for me ?

*****

I don't think it is flattery.

It is a very very common expression these days - young adults/teens will shorten to just a one-word response, "Jealous." Just substitute "Cool!" for it and you've got the gist of it.

I live in a suburb of Long Beach which is a suburb of Los Angeles. I spent last weekend at another homeschooler's house - they live up a windy mountain road in the country on a lake and have chickens. I might easily have said to my friend, "I'm so jealous." It would not at all have been to flatter her. It would have meant that a PART of me wishes we live in the country and keep chickens --- that I think her lifestyle is cool.

Of course, we COULD choose to do exactly what they did - move out to the countryside. I don't want to do that. I love where we live. So that "I'm jealous" is an expression of a momentary wistfulness and a way of saying that I appreciate the choice that they made.

I don't see flattery in it at all. It is a compliment on your choices, but flattery has a connotation of insincerity or being ingratiating that I don't think is typically part of that expression.

-pam









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Sandra Dodd

-=-I noticed parents teaching children to be jealous when they admire somthing another child has and dont know exactly how to express the fact that they think they might enjoy having one of their own and may push or grab to get it. -=-

I've never noticed that. Maybe you do hang around with an odd crowd.

If someone expresses envy to flatter you, think of something nice to say, or just say "I'm glad I have one, too," or "I'm glad I figured out how to do that."

Choose to be a gracious person. Not everyone is good with thoughts and words. You can set a good example, or you can contribute to a muddle. What you can't do is control how the other people will express their admiration of your abilities or good fortune.

-=- The parents swoop up the child and say somthing like "why are you so jealous, be nice" Thats annoying to watch. That happened recently and i tried to address the issue and got blown off. -=-

Yeah, it probably wasn't a good time for you to advise the other parent. Kind of a stress-moment. Unless it was your child, and then you might have found a way to be soothing on behalf of all involved.

If you can't make a situation better, try not to make it worse.

Sandra

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Veronica Deleon-sutter

I once used "envy" in a sentence instead of 'jealous", and my friend who was with me remarked that he was glad to hear someone use it in the correct context. Since then I've been able to hear what he meant; people confuse the two words often, as they do not mean the same thing. I tell them jealous is "I don't want you to have that" and envy is "I wish I had that, too." So, I can see real jealousy rubbing you the wrong way, but perhaps people were envious, which can be a want to share not necesarily take by way of flattery. My feather's get ruffled if someone accuses me of being jealous, because then he is accusing me of being malicious or selfish. I do soul-searching to make sure if it is envy or jealousy, because jealousy comes from insecurity, at least for me.


________________________________
From: yoginidharma <yoginidharma@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 11:51 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Jealousy as a form of flattery ???


 
I went in the archives to see what came up and found alot of intersting stuff on jealousy. What i was looking for though was uses of jelousy as a form of flattery, because I just dont get it. The majority of the time when i talk to the people in life,(with the exception of just a handfull of brilliant ispirining people i have the great fortune of conversing with occasionally)they allways respond to my dreams ambitions and accomplishments with "Oh i'm so jelous". Quite frankly i'm getting tired of it. If you look at me, im not an outstanding and accomplished person, I am trying to be though and the energy of jealousy ( or so called )is not very inspiring. When i was growing up I did not have much, my shoes generally had holes in them, i had a few outfits that i had to keep clean and wear all the time and we only went on vacation twice as a family. I was abused with in the school system physically and sexually and just feel drained for the most part when i
am complimented in the name of jelousy. I never harbored Jealousy despite for what seemed the lack of what i had, I think i grew to appreciate what i did have. Now it seems when jelousy in the form of a compliment is directed toward me its usually because i am doing somthing that they have allready done before and know how wonderfull it is, thats annoying. So whats the deal, do any of you use jealousy as a form of flattery and can enlighten me to its uses ? Is it really that common of a phrase or am i just associating with the wrong people. Or do I just need to suck it up becuase mostly everybody uses it and try to find some way to make it work for me ?

I noticed parents teaching children to be jealous when they admire somthing another child has and dont know exactly how to express the fact that they think they might enjoy having one of their own and may push or grab to get it. The parents swoop up the child and say somthing like "why are you so jealous, be nice" Thats annoying to watch. That happened recently and i tried to address the issue and got blown off. I dont even think my children know the word jealousy, although they are allways surprising me with things i had no idea they knew.
Any takers ? Does this bring to mind any thoughts for anyone?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I once used "envy" in a sentence instead of 'jealous", and my friend who was with me remarked that he was glad to hear someone use it in the correct context.-=-

Yes, but it's splitting hairs, and either can be covetousness, which is a sin. :-)

Envy was one of the seven deadly sins of the Middle Ages.


The better emotion to express and to look for is appreciation, or admiration. Learning to compliment people without any indication that you wish you had one too, or wish they didn't have one, is more wishing than compliment. "That is a beautiful car!" is nice. "I wish I had a car like that!" is not nice. There's not a nice thing for the other person to think or to say. You've put sourness out rather than sweetness, no matter whether you call it envy, jealousy, covetousness or whining. It is not designed to make the other person feel any better.

Envy isn't prettier than jealousy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy

Sandra

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gertrude lee

<<Sounds a bit superior though. You're implying you probably had it
worse growing up than the "jealous" people but managed to be a better
person than they are.

Different personality, different upbringing, yields different results>>
 
Thats really true Joyce ! Before I fell asleep last night, I was thinking the same exact thing. Everyone suffers, everyone works to overcome and feel better in the world with things that were hurtfull. I dont think anyone can really "have it better" than anyone else because we are all here ( in life)  working through...well...life. Thank you for your insights.














 

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Sandra Dodd

-=- Everyone suffers, everyone works to overcome and feel better in the world with things that were hurtfull. I dont think anyone can really "have it better" than anyone else because we are all here ( in life) working through...well...life. Thank you for your insights.-=-

I don't think that's the insight Joyce was trying to induce. I could be wrong.

-=-Everyone suffers, everyone works to overcome and feel better in the world with things that were hurtfull. -=-

Some people have suffered very little. Some have been horrendously abused.

-=-I dont think anyone can really "have it better" than anyone else because we are all here ( in life) working through...well...life. -=-

If you don't think anyone can have it better than another person, that seems to suggest you think all lives are equal.
If so, how could you choose unschooling over school? Why be on a list like this?

The only way to make better choices is to have an idea which direction is better, or more desirable, within your own beliefs and principles.

Sandra

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annmariehorsley

--- In [email protected], gertrude lee <yoginidharma@...> wrote:
>
Everyone suffers, everyone works to overcome and feel better in the world with things that were hurtfull. I dont think anyone can really "have it better" than anyone else because we are all here ( in life) �working through...well...life. Thank you for your insights.
>
I don't think that's at all true. My mother spent her childhood growing up being physically and mentally abused by her mother and sexually abused by her brother. I've never personally met anyone who had a more traumatic childhood than her. Plenty have 'had it better'. I definitely 'had it better' than her. I was raised by a strong, beautiful and loving woman who made a conscious decision and ongoing effort to make sure that her children never experienced the sorts of hurts she did in her life. Instead she filled our lives with as much love and joy as she could. We had different sorts of issues and challenges. Now my aim as a parent to two sons, is to make their lives even better again... the bestest, sparkliest, most joyous life they can have. And this list is helping me do better and better every day.

Ann-Marie

Sandra Dodd

-=- I was raised by a strong, beautiful and loving woman who made a conscious decision and ongoing effort to make sure that her children never experienced the sorts of hurts she did in her life. Instead she filled our lives with as much love and joy as she could.-=-

In a chat a few months ago, Jenny Cyphers wrote about her dad making a conscious effort to break the cycle he could have chosen to continue:

JennyC: I thanked my dad yesterday for making my growing up life so peaceful, and recognizing the huge amount of effort that takes, and that I wouldn't know what that is and accept nothing less, if he hadn't done it
JennyC: he almost started crying and thanked me and told me that I just blessed him hugely by saying that... he grew up in a terrible home environment and made huge efforts to change that
JennyC: my dad stopped a terrible cycle and I'm continuing his efforts and it impacts my husband... so it changes everything for generations
Schuyler: It's a powerful legacy, kindness, gentleness, generosity
JennyC: and some people can't or won't change it

----------------

It's easy to justify just doing whatever, doing what one's mom did, doing what the neighbors do, doing what magazine articles recommend.

It's not as easy to examine the whats and whys of everyday decisions.

Sandra