m_aduhene

hello,
i feel like i should be more comfortable than i am right now. i have a dd5, ds7 and a dd10. we have never had a curriculum. i know the panic monster hits everyone from time to time but mine lingers a lot at the moment. am i giving them enough? how do you know? i am again reading a lot on here and have just read some typical unschooling days but sometimes they unnerve me. one mentioned a child making his own clocks at 8. oh my!
yesterday we chilled and chatted and then walked to town where we browsed and chatted and they ordered their own smoothies in the smoothie shop (which my oldest was so proud to take me too because it's her best chill out place with her friends). we had had a lovely open chat that morning about all things growing up and for 10 wow! she has some amazing insights into life and is very self assured :-) when we got home the two other children made traps with wool all through the house and garden. and pulled a small bin up and down from a window with bits and bobs in.
we watched some tv and then took a neighbour's dog for walk and played on the park for a while and then came home and watched "daddy day care". i don't want to look for the learning below the surface per se. i know enough to know they will get what they need from each day but it doesn't feel like enough. i feel like i am being lazy if this is all we do (some days we do more). like how will they or me ever fit into society ie. when they get jobs or when i may have to get work outside the home. i feel lazy and carefree and get this feeling it's wrong. i am there for them all day, to help and chat and be when they need me....
my oldest wants to be a fashion designer and someone gave her a machine. she has made a couple of things on it but now it's not used. they don't seem to be interested in much for long and i get nervous when i hear of other children swimming 100 lengths of a swimming pool or some other amazing feat. too much comparison?
blessings
michelle

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 3, 2011, at 5:13 AM, m_aduhene wrote:

> have just read some typical unschooling days but sometimes they
> unnerve me. one mentioned a child making his own clocks at 8. oh my!

First, "typical unschooling days" are rarely typical. The typical ones
aren't worth writing about! ;-) It's better to see those days as days
in which something notable happens.

Second it will help to see that you found that impressive because
you're judging the worth of the child's activities by adult standards.
The *child* was doing something he found fun. What he did was the same
as a child banging on pots with enthusiasm, completing a jigsaw
puzzle, pouring a glass of juice without spilling.

What's important to unschooling is to support the kids' interests and
not judging those interests by adult standards. They are learning
about the world whether it be through something that's relevant to
adult life or is only relevant (in adult eyes!) to the right now life
of your child.

What's important to unschooling is swirling new things through their
lives. You don't need to swirl clock kits through their lives ;-)
(unless someone has shown a passion for putting kits together). But
try mixing up their days so there are new things for them to encounter.

But make it about providing what they need, not about creating some
ideal unschooling life. Keep your eyes on them, not on other people's
lives and kids. (So, yes, too much comparison.) Right now there might
be something they need and want from stability and predictability.

> my oldest wants to be a fashion designer and someone gave her a
> machine. she has made a couple of things on it but now it's not
> used. they don't seem to be interested in much for long and i get
> nervous when i hear of other children swimming 100 lengths of a
> swimming pool or some other amazing feat. too much comparison?

Two things: Some people are like that moving from one interest to
another, being jacks of all trades :-) Some ages are like that. Some
interests are like that.

Some people enjoy the camaraderie of doing things together. So your
expectation that exploring an interest means doing things on her own
may be totally unrealistic. My daughter's very much a doing things
together person. Me too, actually. I loved watching my father fix
things but mostly when I tried on my own I'd lose interest.

There are way more connections with fashion designing than just
sewing! Drawing. History of. Museum displays. Mysteries about.
Seamless pattern design for fabrics. But, again, focus on her rather
than your idea of what "being a fashion designer" means. Don't try to
direct her so much as create an environment where she can explore
(with you if she needs to, or with others who enjoy it) the fullness
of her interests. Find what she likes (about what she's labeling
"fashion design" and help her explore it and expand on it.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-There are way more connections with fashion designing than just
sewing! Drawing. History of. Museum displays. Mysteries about.
Seamless pattern design for fabrics. But, again, focus on her rather
than your idea of what "being a fashion designer" means. Don't try to
direct her so much as create an environment where she can explore
(with you if she needs to, or with others who enjoy it) the fullness
of her interests. Find what she likes (about what she's labeling
"fashion design" and help her explore it and expand on it.-=-

Holly has a sewing machine she has hardly used, but I think she will use it more when she's older. She uses mine sometimes. But mostly she cuts and hand-sews t-shirts, or decorates things she has, by hand, with patches or t-shirt art removed from one thing and put on another.

When she was younger, her fashion sense involved thrift stores or hand-me-downs mixed and matched, and hair color and haircuts.

Some people use dolls more than themselves (Barbie-doll clothes or other things).

Some images:
http://sandradodd.com/barbie
(look at the "Barbie Action Figure" links, at least)

http://sandradodd.com/hollyhair

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bernadette Lynn

On 3 September 2011 10:13, m_aduhene <m_aduhene@...> wrote:

> hello,
> i feel like i should be more comfortable than i am right now. i have a
> dd5, ds7 and a dd10

...............

> my oldest wants to be a fashion designer and someone gave her a machine.
> she has made a couple of things on it but now it's not used. they don't
> seem to be interested in much for long and i get nervous when i hear of
> other children swimming 100 lengths of a swimming pool or some other amazing
> feat. too much comparison?
> blessings
> michelle




My second daughter is also 10 and interested in fashion design. Here are
some of the fashion-related things she does:

She spends a great deal of time playing Stardoll.com online (her username is
IsobelClare, if your daughter wants to send her a friend request); she
designs clothes there and sometimes sells her designs and has taken
commissions for custom designs.
She also has a fairly large amount of makeup to experiment with, and three
'head dolls' - she's allergic to most cream-based makeup but the dolls give
her a chance to use those while I keep a lookout for new powder makeup and
keep wipes handy so she can try shop testers for reactions.
When not online or using makeup she has a Harumika mannequin and two body
forms, with a growing number of scraps, and a dress design notebook which
has a body outline on each page and came with coloured and patterned paper
and stencils and lots of stickers.
She has Imagine Fashion Design for her DS.
She regularly gets bags of outgrown clothes from her cousins and tries out
different outfits, using her iPod video to to fashion shoots with her
friends.
She's started to make her own website so she can add all the features she
would like to use on Stardoll but they don't have; we bought her the domain
name she wanted and she's learning to program as she makes it - she tells
her Daddy what she wants to do, he shows her how to do it, she does it. It's
been lovely seeing them work together, and though he works away from home
for part of every week they use GoogleTalk while he's away partly to show
and resolve problems.
I own a sewing machine and we've collected material from our local Scrap
Store but apart from finger-knitting a couple of scarves she hasn't yet
tried making anything, her interest is more in design than production.

She's not doing amazing feats but she's having a great deal of fun and
learning loads. And there are still several years of learning ahead of her.


Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

I have a seven year old son and we are just beginning unschooling this fall after a failed attempt at curriculum the last part of the school year previous. I try to do the trust thing and wait for him to come up with things he wants to learn but it doesn't seem enough somehow. He loves animals so we have ended up with a hermit crab, two mice, and a frog that ran away. We did the butterfly grow kit and that was fun for him while it lasted but he seems to lose interest in anything rather quickly. The fear of him getting everything he needs to have the life he may eventually want keeps me frustrated and I know as we're unscholimg I shouldn't be worrying about it but I do. For a while he liked me to read to him so i was encouraged about that but he didn't find the books interesting enough. He loves gorillas and the concept of the freedom they have to live in the woods so we've done some film watching of primates but short of the zoo, what else do I do for him with that? I don't mean to go on I'm just frustrated that all he wants to do is play. How do I know he's really gonna take an interest some day in things he hates now like math and reading? Did I not give him enough of a deschooling break maybe? Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your post it helped me feel not so isolated.

Deborah


















--- In [email protected], "m_aduhene" <m_aduhene@...> wrote:
>
> hello,
> i feel like i should be more comfortable than i am right now. i have a dd5, ds7 and a dd10. we have never had a curriculum. i know the panic monster hits everyone from time to time but mine lingers a lot at the moment. am i giving them enough? how do you know? i am again reading a lot on here and have just read some typical unschooling days but sometimes they unnerve me. one mentioned a child making his own clocks at 8. oh my!
> yesterday we chilled and chatted and then walked to town where we browsed and chatted and they ordered their own smoothies in the smoothie shop (which my oldest was so proud to take me too because it's her best chill out place with her friends). we had had a lovely open chat that morning about all things growing up and for 10 wow! she has some amazing insights into life and is very self assured :-) when we got home the two other children made traps with wool all through the house and garden. and pulled a small bin up and down from a window with bits and bobs in.
> we watched some tv and then took a neighbour's dog for walk and played on the park for a while and then came home and watched "daddy day care". i don't want to look for the learning below the surface per se. i know enough to know they will get what they need from each day but it doesn't feel like enough. i feel like i am being lazy if this is all we do (some days we do more). like how will they or me ever fit into society ie. when they get jobs or when i may have to get work outside the home. i feel lazy and carefree and get this feeling it's wrong. i am there for them all day, to help and chat and be when they need me....
> my oldest wants to be a fashion designer and someone gave her a machine. she has made a couple of things on it but now it's not used. they don't seem to be interested in much for long and i get nervous when i hear of other children swimming 100 lengths of a swimming pool or some other amazing feat. too much comparison?
> blessings
> michelle
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 3, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Deb wrote:

> I don't mean to go on I'm just frustrated that all he wants to do is
> play.

He's seven. He *should* be playing. The desire to play is not a defect
or a reaction to school. That's how kids are wired to learn.

> How do I know he's really gonna take an interest some day in things
> he hates now like math and reading?

He may never have an interest in math or reading. But I can guarantee
that he'll be able to do both before he leaves home if his experiences
with them are positive and he isn't pressured to read or do math.

> Did I not give him enough of a deschooling break maybe?

It sounds like he's doing fine.

But you'll need to read more about unschooling so you know what you
should be seeing. Maybe you're so locked into thinking of learning as
looking "educational" that even reading about unschooling hasn't
dislodged that idea. But that's the hard part about unschooling. It
often *doesn't* look "educational". It looks like playing. It looks
like having fun. It looks like kids enjoying their lives.

> Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated.

The biggest thing that will help you is to understand what unschooling
is and isn't. It isn't kids tackling subjects and skills without a
teacher. It's kids playing and exploring and acquiring skills *as a
side effect* of doing what interests them. And what interests them
might be watching cartoons, baking cupcakes with mom, riding bikes,
playing video games, listening to rap music, watching old musicals,
playing with friends, climbing trees, building with Legos, digging in
the sand, drawing things exploding (like a 7 yo boy I remember was
obsessed with! ;-)

It will help hugely to know that unschooling will look like playing.
*Sometimes* that playing will look like something kids might do in
school like watching videos of gorillas. But mostly it will look like
what kids do during summer vacation when no one's hovering over them
worrying about when they'll stop playing and start learning ;-)

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

"Deb" <vwb777@...> wrote:
>I try to do the trust thing and wait for him to come up with things he wants to learn but it doesn't seem enough somehow.
****************

It's not "enough" because you're still expecting learning to look like school - at least like a fun workshop or summer camp type of school rather than people living their lives and making connections naturally.

> I'm just frustrated that all he wants to do is play.

Play is the primary means by which kids learn. Every moment you keep him from playing, you're getting in the way of learning. One of my all time favorite essays about learning is Sandra's "Moving a Puddle" story - its a great picture of what learning "looks like" and it very often looks like playing:

http://sandradodd.com/puddle

I was just reading one of the "typical days" stories on her site, too, inspired by another thread, and one of those is a fantastic example of how learning (even "academic" type learning) is about connections made over time:
http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents

and a collection of a whole lot of other good things about how learning happens here:

http://sandradodd.com/connections/

If you like blogs, there are a bunch linked here:
http://enjoylifeunschooling.com/resources/
But you won't find a ton of "how to unschool x" there (if that's what you're hoping for), you'll find lots of stories of families living their lives and the occasional musing on the "bigger picture" of learning and growing.

---Meredith

Sandra Dodd

-=-It will help hugely to know that unschooling will look like playing.
*Sometimes* that playing will look like something kids might do in
school like watching videos of gorillas. But mostly it will look like
what kids do during summer vacation when no one's hovering over them
worrying about when they'll stop playing and start learning ;-)-=-

There are lots of ideas and examples of cool ways kids learned things and fun things families did here:
http://sandradodd.com/typical

Joyce made the point recently (today, probably) that those are days worth writing about, so maybe above-average days. Still, the days of unschoolers, written up just for the benefit of those who would come by later and wonder. :-)

Speaking of wonder...
http://sandradodd.com/wonder

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

amylizkid1

One day when my daughter was 4, we went to the beach. My only thought was that we would stay there just as long as she wanted. That ended up being around 8 hours. She spent many of those hours sitting, moving sand with her hands, and humming. We talked some, played and swam a bit, but it was mostly sand and humming. It really looked like that's all it was. On the way home she said, "Mom, is 1+1+1 three?"

Because I was new to the idea of unschooling, I was worried about how she would learn math. That day I saw that math was all around, and natural, interesting and fun.

She didn't come up with the idea she wanted to learn math that day. Thinking about it, I don't do that either. But if I see something interesting, I'll likely follow it for awhile - through a book or a show or online.

I didn't become interested in math until I was around 35 years old. He might not ever like it. Maybe stop separating math and reading into subjects to be hated. They are both all around and unavoidable. Another thing I did was work really hard to not use the word hate very often. I used to hate tv, sugar, and anything that I thought might harm my child. It was the hate that would have harmed her had I not knocked it off.

She's 8 now, and we still play all the time. Life and learning are a lot more fun that way, for me too.

Amy K.

--- In [email protected], "Deb" <vwb777@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have a seven year old son and we are just beginning unschooling this fall after a failed attempt at curriculum the last part of the school year previous. I try to do the trust thing and wait for him to come up with things he wants to learn but it doesn't seem enough somehow. He loves animals so we have ended up with a hermit crab, two mice, and a frog that ran away. We did the butterfly grow kit and that was fun for him while it lasted but he seems to lose interest in anything rather quickly. The fear of him getting everything he needs to have the life he may eventually want keeps me frustrated and I know as we're unscholimg I shouldn't be worrying about it but I do. For a while he liked me to read to him so i was encouraged about that but he didn't find the books interesting enough. He loves gorillas and the concept of the freedom they have to live in the woods so we've done some film watching of primates but short of the zoo, what else do I do for him with that? I don't mean to go on I'm just frustrated that all he wants to do is play. How do I know he's really gonna take an interest some day in things he hates now like math and reading? Did I not give him enough of a deschooling break maybe? Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your post it helped me feel not so isolated.
>
> Deborah
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "m_aduhene" <m_aduhene@> wrote:
> >
> > hello,
> > i feel like i should be more comfortable than i am right now. i have a dd5, ds7 and a dd10. we have never had a curriculum. i know the panic monster hits everyone from time to time but mine lingers a lot at the moment. am i giving them enough? how do you know? i am again reading a lot on here and have just read some typical unschooling days but sometimes they unnerve me. one mentioned a child making his own clocks at 8. oh my!
> > yesterday we chilled and chatted and then walked to town where we browsed and chatted and they ordered their own smoothies in the smoothie shop (which my oldest was so proud to take me too because it's her best chill out place with her friends). we had had a lovely open chat that morning about all things growing up and for 10 wow! she has some amazing insights into life and is very self assured :-) when we got home the two other children made traps with wool all through the house and garden. and pulled a small bin up and down from a window with bits and bobs in.
> > we watched some tv and then took a neighbour's dog for walk and played on the park for a while and then came home and watched "daddy day care". i don't want to look for the learning below the surface per se. i know enough to know they will get what they need from each day but it doesn't feel like enough. i feel like i am being lazy if this is all we do (some days we do more). like how will they or me ever fit into society ie. when they get jobs or when i may have to get work outside the home. i feel lazy and carefree and get this feeling it's wrong. i am there for them all day, to help and chat and be when they need me....
> > my oldest wants to be a fashion designer and someone gave her a machine. she has made a couple of things on it but now it's not used. they don't seem to be interested in much for long and i get nervous when i hear of other children swimming 100 lengths of a swimming pool or some other amazing feat. too much comparison?
> > blessings
> > michelle
> >
>

Schuyler

It is a strange expectation that I think you have. It seems that you hope that
with enough time away from school he will independently seek out an academic
approach to learning; come to you with a textbook in his hand asking that you
delve into the dry text with vim and vigour. It could happen, I suppose, but
probably not at seven.


At seven play is all. I'm over 40 and I learn through play. My play looks a bit
different than it did when I was seven, but it's still largely play.


If he's interested in freely living in the woods like a gorilla, maybe you could
go build some forts somewhere. Maybe even just put blankets over a chair and
play as gorillas in a family troupe in your house. Gorillas have pretty cool
lives. You could look at how much our understanding of them has changed in the
years between the early Tarzan movies to the gorilla interactions in George of
the Jungle or the more recent Tarzan cartoons. Not really look at, but maybe
watch some movies that have gorillas (or folks in gorilla costumes) over the
years. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090927010221AAAa2jd has a
couple of lists of gorilla movies. King Kong is totally fun, if your son likes
that kind of thing. The notion of a giant ape wanting a much smaller and a
different species mate doesn't even have to come into the conversation.


Learning is a part of what humans do. Look at what he's doing, what he's playing
with and at and try and find the learning inherent in all that is going on.


Schuyler






________________________________
From: Deb <vwb777@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 3 September, 2011 21:20:26
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] I'm right there with you


I have a seven year old son and we are just beginning unschooling this fall
after a failed attempt at curriculum the last part of the school year previous.
I try to do the trust thing and wait for him to come up with things he wants to
learn but it doesn't seem enough somehow. He loves animals so we have ended up
with a hermit crab, two mice, and a frog that ran away. We did the butterfly
grow kit and that was fun for him while it lasted but he seems to lose interest
in anything rather quickly. The fear of him getting everything he needs to have
the life he may eventually want keeps me frustrated and I know as we're
unscholimg I shouldn't be worrying about it but I do. For a while he liked me to
read to him so i was encouraged about that but he didn't find the books
interesting enough. He loves gorillas and the concept of the freedom they have
to live in the woods so we've done some film watching of primates but short of
the zoo, what else do I do for him with that? I don't mean to go on I'm just
frustrated that all he wants to do is play. How do I know he's really gonna take
an interest some day in things he hates now like math and reading? Did I not
give him enough of a deschooling break maybe? Any help on these issues would be
greatly appreciated. Thanks for your post it helped me feel not so isolated.

Deborah


















--- In [email protected], "m_aduhene" <m_aduhene@...> wrote:
>
> hello,
> i feel like i should be more comfortable than i am right now. i have a dd5,
>ds7 and a dd10. we have never had a curriculum. i know the panic monster hits
>everyone from time to time but mine lingers a lot at the moment. am i giving
>them enough? how do you know? i am again reading a lot on here and have just
>read some typical unschooling days but sometimes they unnerve me. one mentioned
>a child making his own clocks at 8. oh my!
>
> yesterday we chilled and chatted and then walked to town where we browsed and
>chatted and they ordered their own smoothies in the smoothie shop (which my
>oldest was so proud to take me too because it's her best chill out place with
>her friends). we had had a lovely open chat that morning about all things
>growing up and for 10 wow! she has some amazing insights into life and is very
>self assured :-) when we got home the two other children made traps with wool
>all through the house and garden. and pulled a small bin up and down from a
>window with bits and bobs in.
> we watched some tv and then took a neighbour's dog for walk and played on the
>park for a while and then came home and watched "daddy day care". i don't want
>to look for the learning below the surface per se. i know enough to know they
>will get what they need from each day but it doesn't feel like enough. i feel
>like i am being lazy if this is all we do (some days we do more). like how will
>they or me ever fit into society ie. when they get jobs or when i may have to
>get work outside the home. i feel lazy and carefree and get this feeling it's
>wrong. i am there for them all day, to help and chat and be when they need
>me....
> my oldest wants to be a fashion designer and someone gave her a machine. she
>has made a couple of things on it but now it's not used. they don't seem to be
>interested in much for long and i get nervous when i hear of other children
>swimming 100 lengths of a swimming pool or some other amazing feat. too much
>comparison?
> blessings
> michelle
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I have a seven year old son and we are just beginning unschooling this fall after a failed attempt at curriculum the last part of the school year previous. I try to do the trust thing and wait for him to come up with things he wants to learn but it doesn't seem enough somehow. -=-

There isn't "a trust thing."
Trust develops gradually.

And you shouldn't be waiting for him to develop interests.

On the other hand, your deschooling starts now, not last year, not last summer. When a kid has been in school, summer doesn't count. Summer vacation is an earned break.

So you're just now starting unschooling. And the first part is deschooling. During deschooling, do NOT look for learning. Look for peace. For months. And don't expect to understand it fully or relax into it yourself for at least a year.

http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

Wherever you got the idea about "...the trust thing and wait for him to come up with things he wants to learn...," maybe you shouldn't go to that site anymore. It was a wrong-directed dead end on your path to unschooling.

http://sandradodd.com/nest
Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sheeboo2

-------The fear of him getting everything he needs to have the life he may eventually want keeps me frustrated and I know as we're unscholimg I shouldn't be worrying about it but I do.<snip> I don't mean to go on I'm just frustrated that all he wants to do is play. How do I know he's really gonna take an interest some day in things he hates now like math and reading? --------

I heard the same thing last week from two other moms of 7yr olds. Both were hung up on the fact that their kids were happiest doing what they wanted to do: play, and weren't taking any "initiative" to do the "hard stuff": reading, writing and math. Both moms decided that it was time to crack the whip, they'd let their kids play long enough, and they were going to start requiring a bit of "work" since it wasn't happening on its own. Truth is, it was happening, but the moms weren't seeing it. Reading and math in video games--so what, they said, it Doesn't count, not "academic" enough.

I kept digging in both conversations and got to what I think the heart of the issue was, which is twofold. One the one hand, neither saw play as productive because it is too enjoyable--learning is hard, they believe, so fun and learning aren't compatible :( and the other point, which really surprised me, was both moms think their kids will eventually need to go back to school if they're to be successful. So here they are, playing the unschooling game, all the while planning on sending the kids to school when they're a bit older, which is leading to feeling that their kids need to be kept on-level with schooled kids..... What???!!!

I don't know if any of that is going on with you, but the similarities in the conversations are so striking that I wondered if there is less conviction among unschooling parents of young ones as I had thought.

While I completely agree with the sentiments in the other thread about NOT demonizing schools, I also don't see how one could possibly unschool successfully if the potential of a perceived NEED (in an academic sense) for school casts shadows the the horizon.

Brie

Sandra Dodd

-=-While I completely agree with the sentiments in the other thread about NOT demonizing schools, I also don't see how one could possibly unschool successfully if the potential of a perceived NEED (in an academic sense) for school casts shadows the the horizon.-=-

I think people should live without school, neither demonizing it nor worshiping it, nor looking over their shoulders at it. Deschooling involves that move away from the shadow of the school.

Lack of demonization isn't the same as perceiving a need for school.

If I lived my life hating my neighbor Betty (who honestly is pretty horrible), and watching what she does and whether she's home, and what those workmen over there are doing, I might as well move in with her. I see without emotion and try not to think about my neighbor Betty.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sheeboo2

I forgot, I had a few ideas about gorilla themed things too--

Schleich and Safari are two toy companies that make realistic plastic animal figures. I've seen a few gorillas from each company. He may enjoy having a some to play with, or set up scenes with. Folkmanis is a puppet company that does a fantastic job making realistic animal puppets.

Gorilla escape is a free online game where you help a gorilla escape from the zoo:
http://www.kidsgamespower.com/Kids_Games/Gorilla-Escape

Mario has a gorilla

The show Schuyler mentioned, George of the Jungle is brilliant. Here's the website which also has games:
http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/georgejungle/

Look on YouTube for other gorilla videos....I recently watched this one, that a gorilla filmed of himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69TFfQ4Wero

I don't know where you guys live, but if you're avoiding the zoo because you think it would make him sad, I wanted to mention the A line at the national zoo in Washington DC. It is for the orangoutangs, and it is a sight to behold, watching them move "freely" about the zoo.
http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/Primates/MeetPrimates/MeetOrangs/default.cfm
There are videos on YouTube of them.
And here's the gorilla webcam from the zoo:
http://www.child-sponsorship.com/gorilla_webcam.html

Also, if books are boring, he may enjoy the Ologies series. They have secret pockets, maps and other cool stuff interspersed throughout the pages:
http://tinyurl.com/3hq98h3

Brie

plaidpanties666

"sheeboo2" <brmino@...> wrote:
>neither saw play as productive because it is too enjoyable--learning is hard, they believe, so fun and learning aren't compatible
***************

I've been reading this great book, recently, entitled "Space Between Words" which details the development of word spacing in the middle ages. One of the ideas which slowed down the adoption of putting bigger spaces in between words was that it made reading much, much easier. Reading was *expected* to be difficult, the difficulty became valued as one of the things which set the literate apart from the unlettered masses - and so making reading easier wasn't a priority and may even have been an anti-priority for some scholars. (Making reading easier became a priority first in places like Ireland where the vernacular wasn't anything like Latin - learning a new language was hard enough to make some modifications sensible.)

What made word spacing take off in a big way all across Europe seems to be a change in what people were writing about - when people were mostly reading the same old thing or variations on those themes, it made sense to keep reading difficult. But when new topics came up and people wanted to read them, to Learn New Things, then making reading itself simpler became valuable.

There's an intriguing parallel there between the way people think about learning nowadays and what's learned in schools. The idea that academic learning *should* be difficult hasn't gone away - it was challenged back in the 70s with the open classroom movement, but the idea has stuck pretty tenaciously and may be one of the reasons school reform failed. There's such a longstanding expectation that learning should be difficult that most parents value the difficulty over what's being learned - the flip side of that being that not much of substance is ever presented in schools. It doesn't need to be so long as "the basics" are kept uselessly opaque.

---Meredith

Genevieve Raymond

I had an unschooling breakthrough a few weeks, when I suddenly got it that
college wasn't essential to my children's well-being. Here I was,
unschooling, but *always* living under the assumption that of course college
should really be encouraged, if not required. So while I was mostly happy
with how things were going with unschooling, always at the back of my head,
I had that little voice wondering how whatever my kids were going to be
interested in would read on a college application. It was like I was
viewing unschooling as an alternate route to the same ultimate destination:
college. Hey, being unschooled would really make my kids stand out on their
applications! (My kids are 7, for cryin' out loud!)

I grew up in a very competitive academic environment, went to a "good"
school, got my M.A. but what am I doing now? Following my passion: hanging
with my kids, gardening, and taking care of our house and sheep and
chickens. Did I need an M.A. for that? Absolutely not. But I'm still so
stuck on academic achievement that my degrees somehow make me feel like I'm
not a failure--to feminism, to my parents and grandparents, to my friends
with "real jobs." Yes, I'm a stay-at-home mom, but I have an M.A. dammit!
I STILL, at 37, ask people where they went to school, as if that's somehow
reflective of who they are as a person.

Last week, when it finally dawned on me that my kids might go to college, or
they might not (and if they want to go because they're excited about digging
into a particular subject in an academic way, they'll do whatever they need
to do to make it happen), it was such a revelation. Almost a total paradigm
shift. And it allowed me to stop looking for the academic skills being
acquired while playing video games or LEGOs. It allowed me to really trust
that they will learn whatever they need to learn in order to do what they
want to do.

It's so funny--it was one of those realizations that now, in hindsight,
seems so obvious. Like, how could I even say I was unschooling when I was
so obviously hampered by this attachment to a college degree? How could I
have read all that I have about unschooling without understanding that
essential point? (I know the answer to this one, actually, and it's a
fundamental principle of unschooling: learning *has* to come from within,
and until you're *ready* to understand something, no amount of teaching,
reading, etc., can get the point across.)

So now that I'm free of that, I'm free to see ALL learning as important (and
fun!)--not just the stuff we learned (or didn't) in school. I no longer
worry that all my kids want to do is play. I mean, how awesome is that?
They get to PLAY! ALL DAY! They are SO EXCITED about what they're doing
in Minecraft that they can't stop talking about it to anybody who will
listen. Can you imagine a kid coming home from school and enthusiastically
going on and on about something they did at school that day? I know it
happens, but not to every kid, and not every day.

Because nothing my kids are interested in is treated as being more or less
important than any other thing, it means that everything is fodder for
learning and excitement, whether it's

I remember Sandra writing recently that if kids are interested, they're
learning. I repeat that to myself, almost as a mantra. And I no longer
worry that all they want to do is play.

~Genevieve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- There's such a longstanding expectation that learning should be difficult that most parents value the difficulty over what's being learned - the flip side of that being that not much of substance is ever presented in schools. It doesn't need to be so long as "the basics" are kept uselessly opaque. -=-

NO KIDDING. Those are really good points. And I didn't know about the spaces between words thing, though I knew they became gradually bigger.
OH sheesh. But learning being hard is part of a set. Medicine should taste nasty. Work should be harsh. Life is hard. Risk. Sacrifice. Sorrow.

Puritans. I blame the puritans. :-)
But the beliefs pre-date them. They just enjoyed that deprivation more than most groups have.

Deprivation is such a way of life with some people that they probably can't tell "deprivation" from "life."

Recently I've heard more and more people say that unschooling is just simply living. Or "unschooling is life." If people aren't pretty careful and conscious and intentional, life is deprived, depraved, violent and hateful.

Unschooling is living in a new way with new priorities.
And that's not a definition. It's a little directional marker in the midst of a forest of directional markers to all kinds of things that won't help unschoolers.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Genevieve, I was all excited and this happened:

-=-Because nothing my kids are interested in is treated as being more or less
important than any other thing, it means that everything is fodder for
learning and excitement, whether it's-=-

That second-to-last paragraph just ended! Please complete it if possible. :-) Thanks!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Genevieve Raymond

Oops! I think just a fragment of a paragraph, saved for later, never
completed and not removed due to lack of editing! Sorry about that. But
you get my drift...




On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Genevieve, I was all excited and this happened:
>
> -=-Because nothing my kids are interested in is treated as being more or
> less
>
> important than any other thing, it means that everything is fodder for
> learning and excitement, whether it's-=-
>
> That second-to-last paragraph just ended! Please complete it if possible.
> :-) Thanks!
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Genevieve let me use what she had written the half-paragraph was gently excised. It's on a page that might not have been read lately and could be fun, especially for newer unschoolers.

Some of those who wrote are now conference speakers (might've been then too, but just saying you might know some of them).

Learning to See Differently
http://sandradodd.com/peace/newview

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tamara

> -=-create an environment where she can explore
> (with you if she needs to, or with others who enjoy it) the fullness
> of her interests. Find what she likes (about what she's labeling
> "fashion design" and help her explore it and expand on it.-=-
>

Yes. And, if you're looking for ideas to swirl through her life you might think beyond design. Fashion is also about industry and the theatre of the catwalks. Your daughter might like to follow some of the fashion critics or designers. When I followed fashion more avidly I liked fashion critic Cathy Horyn of the New York Times who also comments on pop culture.

Fashion is also about styling, photography and image making. In the magazine world a fashion spread is called a 'story'. I think that's because the imagery speaks to identity, history, how we live, how we want to live. She might be interested in some of the style blogs like this one which fashion trendforecasters are following. http://www.thestylerookie.com/ and http://www.thesartorialist.com/. She might like a coffee table book by a fashion photographer. She might like obscure fashion magazines from Sweden or whatever that she can cut up and make her own mood boards. She might also like something like this http://pinterest.com/martamccall/ which allows people to make online mood boards with images from the internet.

>
> When (Holly) was younger, her fashion sense involved thrift stores or hand-me-downs mixed and matched, and hair color and haircuts.
>
Yes! My four year old likes to wrap scarves and ropes around her waist and creates all kinds of interesting outfits I never would have thought would work. Your daughter might like to play with pattern and texture.

> Some people use dolls more than themselves (Barbie-doll clothes or other things).
>
There is also crochet. I've seen some dolls clothes patterns using crochet.

There's the history side to fashion. There are some good pictorial Usborne books about the history of fashion and how it changed through the ages.

I hope that helps.

All best,

Tamara

sheeboo2

----She might be interested in some of the style blogs like this one which fashion
trend forecasters are following. http://www.thestylerookie.com/ and
http://www.thesartorialist.com/.-----

I love the Satorialist's blog, and I'm not into fashion (although I help my husband run a clothing company--go figure). I wanted to point out, in case you weren't inclined to click on the links, that the Style Rookie blog is by a 13yr(?) old girl!

I know another younger girl who has her own fashion blog (can't find the link, sorry)--it isn't her taking photos of others, it is her dressing up and having someone help her document her outfits. Fun stuff!

Brie