Sandra Dodd

This is part of an exchange with newer home ed families with younger children. It reminds me why I should probably stay where unschoolers already are, but also why sometimes an unschooler visiting one of those more conservative discussions might be easily able to turn the tide. The quotes are someone else and the unmarked parts are mine.

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-=- Media, we feel, is about loose, easy, unnecessary information, usually dished out with agenda. So TV only 2 hours a week,-=-

"Media" including books? The internet?
When I was in India, I saw kids who were tri-lingual, and the Hindi seemed all to be coming from TV shows. They were bright, healthy and happy, every one of those kids. In the U.S. I see families with kids at home and rules against TV. They might as well paint over all the windows and never go outside. http://sandradodd.com/tv

There is no "unnecessary" information. http://sandradodd.com/conn%e2%80%8bections "Loose" just isn't nice, and "easy" is great!!!

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(I had left the period out of the .com part of the link the first time, so...)
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-=-Your first link doesn't work and I enjoyed reading the article in the second link. It still doesn't tell how plonking a 3,4, 5, 10 year old in front of the television/ google will enhance their creativity/ imagination.-=-

http://sandradodd.com/tv

I have never plonked another person ANYwhere. I have allowed children choices of all sorts, and avoided arbitrary limitations. Now with mine grown at 19, 22, and 25, I have never ever heard anyone who knows them suggest that they could be a little more creative or imaginative. But for me, learning was my first priority, and if they are allowed to choose what to do/see/hear/play with, they learn. "Plonking a [child]..." is a way to word this so that it sounds like I've never thought about what I was doing. There are many ways to entrap ourselves with phrases.
http://sandradodd.com/ifilet
http://sandradodd.com/phrases

-----------------------------


Later note, for Always Learning, from Sandra:

EEEEEk.
What gets me more than the casual acceptance and recommendation of arbitrary limitations is the characterization of allowing children choices as "plonking a 3, 4, 5, 10 year old in front of the television/google." Can you imagine ANYone "plonking" a ten year old in front of google? And what? Demanding he look something up? But I have seen kids that young have a BLAST with google and other search functions, about games, or YouTube, or NetFlix. If they can look up game hints at ten, they will be able to look up building codes or disease treatments or various translations of Bible passages on their own anytime thereafter, given resources. Practicing on something that might seem "loose, easy and unnecessary" can *BE* what is needed for them to be competent, functional workers when they're older. And I won't say "when they're grown," because my kids were competent functional workers when they were mid-teens, every single one of them. So when people who haven't had a child who is mid-teens disparages my knowledge in light of their paranoid theories, sometimes I go EEEEEk.

Sandra





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Claire

Jenny said on the current food thread that underneath all the mainstream talk about food is fear and control. Same could be said about tv. And a lot of the fear, I think, stems from parents not watching with their kids, or not even being in close proximity to their kids while they are watching. My 4 year old daughter is watching a groovy show called 'Octonauts' right now while I'm typing this. We've set up the computer in the lounge room so I am literally a few feet away. And it would be obvious to anyone that she is not just mindlessly staring at the screen. She talks to me, tells me about something on the show that's amusing, gets up and moves around. It's a positive and fun shared experience. No control, no fear.

Because most of the time I am watching with them, when they refer to something they've seen on tv, I actually know what they're talking about! Things we've watched together form part of the shared fabric of our lives. And we have all learned an enormous amount from tv shows. Learning all the time ;)

Claire

dola dasgupta-banerji

I am from India, we speak Bangla at home and English mostly. My son Ishaan
has learnt to speak superb Hindi, better than me from TV. Gourika is
learning to cook from cookery shows...

The other day we went to a friend's place and Ishaan (5) looked at their
coffee table and whispered into my ears.."That is an octagon". I was
pleasantly surprised and I asked him how does he know that. He said from
Mickey Mouse Club!

Gourika asked me to insert a coin into a balloon which she then blew and
then showed me how when she shook the balloon round and round and stopped,
the coin still kept going in circles inside. I asked her where did she learn
that, she said, "from Pogo TV's science show FAQ..."

The amount my children have been learning from various media, especially TV
and internet is simply awesome and amazing! I do not plonk them, they plonk
themselves and I just let that be so....!

Dola

On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> This is part of an exchange with newer home ed families with younger
> children. It reminds me why I should probably stay where unschoolers already
> are, but also why sometimes an unschooler visiting one of those more
> conservative discussions might be easily able to turn the tide. The quotes
> are someone else and the unmarked parts are mine.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> -=- Media, we feel, is about loose, easy, unnecessary information, usually
> dished out with agenda. So TV only 2 hours a week,-=-
>
> "Media" including books? The internet?
> When I was in India, I saw kids who were tri-lingual, and the Hindi seemed
> all to be coming from TV shows. They were bright, healthy and happy, every
> one of those kids. In the U.S. I see families with kids at home and rules
> against TV. They might as well paint over all the windows and never go
> outside. http://sandradodd.com/tv
>
> There is no "unnecessary" information. http://sandradodd.com/conn%e2%80%8bections
> "Loose" just isn't nice, and "easy" is great!!!
>
> --------------
> (I had left the period out of the .com part of the link the first time,
> so...)
> ---------------
>
> -=-Your first link doesn't work and I enjoyed reading the article in the
> second link. It still doesn't tell how plonking a 3,4, 5, 10 year old in
> front of the television/ google will enhance their creativity/
> imagination.-=-
>
> http://sandradodd.com/tv
>
> I have never plonked another person ANYwhere. I have allowed children
> choices of all sorts, and avoided arbitrary limitations. Now with mine grown
> at 19, 22, and 25, I have never ever heard anyone who knows them suggest
> that they could be a little more creative or imaginative. But for me,
> learning was my first priority, and if they are allowed to choose what to
> do/see/hear/play with, they learn. "Plonking a [child]..." is a way to word
> this so that it sounds like I've never thought about what I was doing. There
> are many ways to entrap ourselves with phrases.
> http://sandradodd.com/ifilet
> http://sandradodd.com/phrases
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Later note, for Always Learning, from Sandra:
>
> EEEEEk.
> What gets me more than the casual acceptance and recommendation of
> arbitrary limitations is the characterization of allowing children choices
> as "plonking a 3, 4, 5, 10 year old in front of the television/google." Can
> you imagine ANYone "plonking" a ten year old in front of google? And what?
> Demanding he look something up? But I have seen kids that young have a BLAST
> with google and other search functions, about games, or YouTube, or NetFlix.
> If they can look up game hints at ten, they will be able to look up building
> codes or disease treatments or various translations of Bible passages on
> their own anytime thereafter, given resources. Practicing on something that
> might seem "loose, easy and unnecessary" can *BE* what is needed for them to
> be competent, functional workers when they're older. And I won't say "when
> they're grown," because my kids were competent functional workers when they
> were mid-teens, every single one of them. So when people who haven't had a
> child who is mid-teens disparages my knowledge in light of their paranoid
> theories, sometimes I go EEEEEk.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sarah

Have you ever tried to 'plonk' a child in front of the telly?! This week I have three boys (6, 4 and 10 months) with high temperatures, restless nights and the fretful misery and exhaustion that goes with that.

At the beginning, when the first one got sick, I raided the supermarket and our on-demand tv subscription for snacks and quiet toys and new TV I thought would appeal. I've done everything I can manage to allow them to be entertained and happy while fairly quiet and calm (since activity seems to make them worse fast).

So, I think that amounts to a reasonably concerted effort to 'plonk' two kids who already enjoy TV and computer games. But the plonking hasn't had much effect! It seems that I can't make TV more interesting, or make them want to watch much more of it.

We've listened to audio books, made a giant Modroc volcano hide away, played in mud (warm baths after!), read books, discussed chromosomes and done reproduction Van Gogh's (not my idea, honest!). But not that much TV.

Sarah

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], "Claire" <claire.horsley08@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Because most of the time I am watching with them, when they refer to something they've seen on tv, I actually know what they're talking about! Things we've watched together form part of the shared fabric of our lives. And we have all learned an enormous amount from tv shows. Learning all the time ;)
>



Just overheard from the lounge where my wife and our teenage son are watching CSI Miami. Somebody mentioned "pleading the fifth".

My wife started to explain what that meant and Pat said he knew what it meant and explained it to her. "I watch Law & Order". LOL

Bob

Lisa E Biesemeyer

-=Just overheard from the lounge=-

I have never heard the term "lounge" used in reference to a room in a home
before this and another comment in this thread. I've always heard the TV room
called "family room", "den", "TV room", "media room", but never lounge. I'm
loving it! Is it common in some locations of the US or abroad? I'm in Northern
Ca and grew up in Southern Ca.


Lisa B




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Have you ever tried to 'plonk' a child in front of the telly?! -=-

Once when Marty was nine or so there was strife and confusion and frustration and I needed to separate kids so people could calm down and we could get ready for something, I forget what. So I turned on a half-hour TV show Marty liked and said "Watch that." He watched for a while and then wanted to get up and go back where Kirby was. I said no, stay until that show's over. I did it because Kirby was probably still angry, and it seemed easier to let adrenaline dissipate slowly than to risk a relapse of the argument. So I used TV as a time-out corner one time in the late 1990's.

It wasn't easy to get him to stay there. It wasn't mesmerizing for him. He had to think about being there, and it wasn't his choice.

I suppose people who want their children to shun TV could try to force them to watch it, on a schedule, on the parents' terms, regardless of the child's wishes. That has worked for schools for generations, to get kids to shun books and anything that looks like "a school subject."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

> I have never heard the term "lounge" used in reference to a room in
> a home
> before this and another comment in this thread. I've always heard
> the TV room
> called "family room", "den", "TV room", "media room", but never
> lounge. I'm
> loving it! Is it common in some locations of the US or abroad? I'm
> in Northern
> Ca and grew up in Southern Ca.

Claire's in Australia, where "lounge" means "living room", I think.

In Canada (and perhaps other places), we used the term "front room"
for the living room (as it was usually at the front of the house). I'm
not sure if that was regional, national, or a holdover from my British
parents.

Robin B.

sheeboo2

I just read a timely piece in the New York Times titled, "Our Plugged-In Summer." It was timely for two reasons: this post and the general on-going conversation among new-to-unschooling, and the not-so-new, about all the learning that happens as a result of ALL kinds of media and, I recently commented on another list that seeing kids as "plugged-in" isn't helpful for teasing apart concerns about TV and computers. After all, kids (and adults) aren't machines that need an external power supply.

Anyway, here's that article....
"instead of avoiding the Internet while we were on vacation, my family and I made good use of it, and it rewarded us in many ways"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/fashion/this-life-a-plugged-in-summer.html?_r=1

......and, because I often hear Sandra's voice in my head, commenting on my thoughts, here's a link to her page on "Balancing in the Middle Ground"

http://www.sandradodd.com/balance

Brie

Vicki Dennis

When I was growing up in Texas in the 50s and 60s we used front room. At
least for lower socioeconomic houses.
Bigger houses might have both a parlor and a living room. Or a living room
and a family room or a den.
We did not have a dining room either. One table for all purposes :-).

I am considering implementing "lounge" in our new house that has a cozy TV
room and not much space for doing anything else besides lounging while
watching TV. I no longer have children at home who might spread out on the
floor with toys or games in front of the screen so I don't miss the space.

vicki

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Robin Bentley
<robin.bentley@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> > I have never heard the term "lounge" used in reference to a room in
> > a home
> > before this and another comment in this thread. I've always heard
> > the TV room
> > called "family room", "den", "TV room", "media room", but never
> > lounge. I'm
> > loving it! Is it common in some locations of the US or abroad? I'm
> > in Northern
> > Ca and grew up in Southern Ca.
>
> Claire's in Australia, where "lounge" means "living room", I think.
>
> In Canada (and perhaps other places), we used the term "front room"
> for the living room (as it was usually at the front of the house). I'm
> not sure if that was regional, national, or a holdover from my British
> parents.
>
> Robin B.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

railyuh

> Gourika asked me to insert a coin into a balloon which she then blew and
> then showed me how when she shook the balloon round and round and stopped,
> the coin still kept going in circles inside. I asked her where did she learn
> that, she said, "from Pogo TV's science show FAQ..."
>

As soon as I read this I had to get out a balloon and a coin and try it, how neat It took me a minute to figure out how to shake the balloon, but once I did that penny really gets going in there. My 2 year old is now trying to figure out how to make it go on her own.

Thanks for sharing!
Annie

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>
> > I have never heard the term "lounge" used in reference to a room in
> > a home
> > before this and another comment in this thread. I've always heard
> > the TV room
> > called "family room", "den", "TV room", "media room", but never
> > lounge. I'm
> > loving it! Is it common in some locations of the US or abroad? I'm
> > in Northern
> > Ca and grew up in Southern Ca.
>
> Claire's in Australia, where "lounge" means "living room", I think.
>
> In Canada (and perhaps other places), we used the term "front room"
> for the living room (as it was usually at the front of the house). I'm
> not sure if that was regional, national, or a holdover from my British
> parents.
>
> Robin B.
>


I always used to call it the front room. I'm from England and that was the popular name I knew of. I started calling it the lounge several years ago after we bought a new and rather large sofa that's now the centrepiece of the room and perfect for lounging on. :-)

Bob (in Australia)

Sandra Dodd

-=-As soon as I read this I had to get out a balloon and a coin and try it, how neat It took me a minute to figure out how to shake the balloon, but once I did that penny really gets going in there. My 2 year old is now trying to figure out how to make it go on her own.-=-

Two or three times over the years we've had helium balloons, filled at home. The last time, Holly put small super-balls (hi-bounce balls) in some of them. We discovered that spin the ball around thing, and if you let it go, the pattern of the ball in the air is very interesting.

Something we've done with helium balloons that Holly learned from a kids' show called Zoom is "flinking." It involves fastening something to a string suspended from a balloon and adjusting the weight so that the balloon "flinks"--hangs stationary in the air without sinking or rising to the ceiling. We tried paper baskets (homemade) and adding little scraps of paper. We've tried hanging a bigger piece of paper and cutting pieces off until it was right. Holly would know other things they did, but she's asleep.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]