nycartgal2003

We just spent the day in the ER, and we are now waiting for a bed so they can admit my 4 year old son to the hospital. It was a traumatic day for him. Strangers have been touching and talking to him all day. Some of the things that happened have been invasive and getting an IV put in hurt. He did not want the doctors to look at his eye, which is where the problem is. He was scared, and it hurt. It was urgent that they look at it while he was awake. I had to help hold him down. I would not have done this if it weren't so important. He has a serious eye infection. It felt so against all I believe in as a parent to restrain him like that, but the exam had to be done.

There will be a few more days I'd tests, med, and prodding. How have any of you handled a situation like this?

I usually re-write and edit more, but I've been in the ER for 14 hours, and I'm doing this quick while Logan is asleep.

Meryl

Pam Sorooshian

On 2/26/2011 10:35 PM, nycartgal2003 wrote:
> There will be a few more days I'd tests, med, and prodding. How have
> any of you handled a situation like this?
Keep asking - "Is this necessary?" "What will happen if we skip this?"
"Is there any other alternative?"

Don't let them send you out of the room. Be right there holding his hand
or whatever you can do to have physical contact.

Be as calm and reassuring as possible. Don't fall apart, yourself, but
acknowledge how he's feeling. Show confidence that he can get through
it. Be honest about things that will hurt or be uncomfortable, but don't
be dramatic, just matter-of-fact and sympathetic without adding to his
fear. Also be sure to say how long it will last, especially if it won't
be long.

-pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina Tarbutton

I don't know how to make it easier, but I know one major mistake I made
during an er trip was to say "just this once" or "only once more". That
made everything even harder on us. You don't know if a test will have to be
repeated so try to avoid those phrases.

Tina

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 1:35 AM, nycartgal2003 <mranzer@...> wrote:

>
>
> We just spent the day in the ER, and we are now waiting for a bed so they
> can admit my 4 year old son to the hospital. It was a traumatic day for him.
> Strangers have been touching and talking to him all day. Some of the things
> that happened have been invasive and getting an IV put in hurt. He did not
> want the doctors to look at his eye, which is where the problem is. He was
> scared, and it hurt. It was urgent that they look at it while he was awake.
> I had to help hold him down. I would not have done this if it weren't so
> important. He has a serious eye infection. It felt so against all I believe
> in as a parent to restrain him like that, but the exam had to be done.
>
> There will be a few more days I'd tests, med, and prodding. How have any of
> you handled a situation like this?
>
> I usually re-write and edit more, but I've been in the ER for 14 hours, and
> I'm doing this quick while Logan is asleep.
>
> Meryl
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 27, 2011, at 1:35 AM, nycartgal2003 wrote:

> It was urgent that they look at it while he was awake. I had to help
> hold him down.

But immediately? Right that moment?

I think what happens in these types of situations is that mom wants to
do what's best for the child so is letting a better tool than herself
do the fixing. But from the child's point of view, mom has switched
teams. She's now on the doctor's team against the child and no matter
what mom says, it feels to the child like mom's abandoned them to
people who want to do hurtful things to them. And then to the mom it
seems like the child is refusing to be reasonable and trusting. So
force seems necessary.

So you need to be your child's advocate. Ask the questions your child
would want asked like Pam suggested.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nycartgal2003

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>Joyce, Pam,

Thank you for responding.
Your words are so helpful.
Logan has always seen me and his dad being on his side.
I do not want him to feel betrayed.
He is a really amazing kid who is strong enough to tell the doctors and nurses "no" when he doesn't like something. I admire him. I was so much more pliable as a child.

I've been questioning every treatment, test, and protocal and refusing things that I disagree with.

he has an eye infection, the concern is that it is close to the brain and could spread there. He is on IV antibiotics. He's feeling so upset that he won't let the nurses touch him to put the meds in. They need to look in his eye and he refuses.
He Says he doesn't want get better, just go home.
They have asked me to hold him down so they could fix his IV, is it better that I do it lovingly, or does he see that as me being on the doctors side against him?

He does not trust the doctors and nurses at all at this point, i dont blame him. We will be here for a few more days. My happy kid is now constantly agitated and crying.
We are stuck in a place where people talk to him differently than my husband and I.
Lots of "good jobs", and "your so brave", when he's obviously not feeling brave, just scared.



What do I do when they want me to help hold him down?
It all feels so wrong, but he needs the meds.

IMeryl




>
> On Feb 27, 2011, at 1:35 AM, nycartgal2003 wrote:
>
> > It was urgent that they look at it while he was awake. I had to help
> > hold him down.
>
> But immediately? Right that moment?
>
> I think what happens in these types of situations is that mom wants to
> do what's best for the child so is letting a better tool than herself
> do the fixing. But from the child's point of view, mom has switched
> teams. She's now on the doctor's team against the child and no matter
> what mom says, it feels to the child like mom's abandoned them to
> people who want to do hurtful things to them. And then to the mom it
> seems like the child is refusing to be reasonable and trusting. So
> force seems necessary.
>
> So you need to be your child's advocate. Ask the questions your child
> would want asked like Pam suggested.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

nycartgal2003

I just re-read Yiur post Joyce, and realized that you and Pam really did answer the questions I asked the first time.

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 27, 2011, at 1:35 AM, nycartgal2003 wrote:
>
> > It was urgent that they look at it while he was awake. I had to help
> > hold him down.
>
> But immediately? Right that moment?
>
> I think what happens in these types of situations is that mom wants to
> do what's best for the child so is letting a better tool than herself
> do the fixing. But from the child's point of view, mom has switched
> teams. She's now on the doctor's team against the child and no matter
> what mom says, it feels to the child like mom's abandoned them to
> people who want to do hurtful things to them. And then to the mom it
> seems like the child is refusing to be reasonable and trusting. So
> force seems necessary.
>
> So you need to be your child's advocate. Ask the questions your child
> would want asked like Pam suggested.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-It was urgent that they look at it while he was awake. I had to help hold him down. I would not have done this if it weren't so important. He has a serious eye infection. It felt so against all I believe in as a parent to restrain him like that, but the exam had to be done.

-=-There will be a few more days I'd tests, med, and prodding. How have any of you handled a situation like this?-=-

I would have held him down, but been as comforting as I could afterwards. There are things people need to have done sometimes. I wasn't crazy about having my leg splinted when I broke it in the mountains, and people held my hands and distracted the top of me while people were hurting my leg, but not at all for meanness.

I hope his eye is all better already.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- But from the child's point of view, mom has switched
teams. She's now on the doctor's team against the child and no matter
what mom says, it feels to the child like mom's abandoned them to
people who want to do hurtful things to them. -=-

There are circumstances in which it's better for the mom to help get a procedure over with, lest they put her out of the room and do it without her. That can happen. It has. They can call social workers. Moms don't always get to tell groups of professionals that her child might be ready in twenty minutes or an hour.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-We are stuck in a place where people talk to him differently than my husband and I.-=-

That will be the way the world is forever (without the "stuck" part, usually).


-=-Lots of "good jobs", and "your so brave", when he's obviously not feeling brave, just scared.-=-

Let them say what they want to say. That's their move, not yours.
Rather than spend your thoughts and energy wishing things were different, spend it being soft and comforting for Logan.

Deciding to parent differently doesn't give a family different rights or privileges outside their own home.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela

A couple of different things about advocating for your child through this process:

Doctors tend to talk to parents as if children aren't in the room or can't speak for themselves. Depending on your child, that may be fine with him or make him feel helpless and/or angry and left out.

They also sometimes seem physically unaware of a young patient's presence. When my daughter (2 1/2 at the time) was injured and being prepped for surgery, the surgeon came out to talk to me, he leaned on the bed rail right over her face and proceeded to gesture with his hands. She flinched. I had to point it out to him. It was as if he wasn't even aware she was in the bed. We had similar experiences with nurses and ER docs and x-ray techs. They would talk over her or with their backs to her or other things they would (should) never do to an adult patient.

And, if you are in a hospital where they want to bring a bunch of residents in for teaching purposes, it's your right to say NO!

And take care of yourself, too. That is the biggest mistake I made during the 6 weeks of stressful bandage changes, etc. I didn't reach out and ask friends to make meals, etc. or get out and go for walks. I ended up snapping at my older kids, etc. because I was just emotionally spent.

Best of luck!
Angela

--- In [email protected], "nycartgal2003" <mranzer@...> wrote:
>
> We just spent the day in the ER, and we are now waiting for a bed so they can admit my 4 year old son to the hospital. It was a traumatic day for him. Strangers have been touching and talking to him all day. Some of the things that happened have been invasive and getting an IV put in hurt. He did not want the doctors to look at his eye, which is where the problem is. He was scared, and it hurt. It was urgent that they look at it while he was awake. I had to help hold him down. I would not have done this if it weren't so important. He has a serious eye infection. It felt so against all I believe in as a parent to restrain him like that, but the exam had to be done.
>
> There will be a few more days I'd tests, med, and prodding. How have any of you handled a situation like this?
>
> I usually re-write and edit more, but I've been in the ER for 14 hours, and I'm doing this quick while Logan is asleep.
>
> Meryl
>

Birchwood Academy

My daughter was in the hospital for eight days, and when admitted, right away needed a spinal tap. I was very concerned. When I left her and my husband at the ER to go park the car she was in tears. When I got back to the ER room, she was smiling. The ER physician was so kind, calm, funny and nice that she completely relaxed. Sometimes our worst fears are not fulfilled! The eight days we were in the hospital, my husband and/or I were always with her. We slept in her room. We got take-out food when she was able to start eating because the hospital food was yukky. Friends came over and each of us took time to go into another room and get our fears out on a kind shoulder away from her. We kept the florescent lights off. Our homeopath came to see her. We had music from the laptop. A friend brought a small vase bunch of daffodils. By the end, my daughter said she felt the love and support from us and our friends. We kept doctors out when she was sleeping who wanted to do "one more test." But mostly, we processed our fears and concerns away from my daughter. It took almost a month at home before she was fully recovered, but the time in the hospital was not traumatic.
My thoughts are with you. . . just take it one step at a time. . .
~ Colleen

Jennifer Schuelein

When my son was 11 weeks old he started having seizures from anundiscovered brain bleed. We spent plenty if hospital time over the next few years. My son also has autism (asperger's syndrome). Holding him down was part of what was necessary even though it hurt me emotionally to do so. It was medically necessary. The doctors and nurses want to give good care and want our kids to heal, but the pressure and stress from their jobs might make it seem like they are cold or uncaring. Be loving and stay calm no matter what, for your son. Seeing mom stay calm is very reassuring. Comfort afterward is also key. I have had to be my son's advocate in that I have to remind doctors of the autism diagnosis, but they are always understanding. Xan is not scared of doctors now at age 10.



--- In [email protected], Birchwood Academy <birchwoodacademy@...> wrote:
>
> My daughter was in the hospital for eight days, and when admitted, right away needed a spinal tap. I was very concerned. When I left her and my husband at the ER to go park the car she was in tears. When I got back to the ER room, she was smiling. The ER physician was so kind, calm, funny and nice that she completely relaxed. Sometimes our worst fears are not fulfilled! The eight days we were in the hospital, my husband and/or I were always with her. We slept in her room. We got take-out food when she was able to start eating because the hospital food was yukky. Friends came over and each of us took time to go into another room and get our fears out on a kind shoulder away from her. We kept the florescent lights off. Our homeopath came to see her. We had music from the laptop. A friend brought a small vase bunch of daffodils. By the end, my daughter said she felt the love and support from us and our friends. We kept doctors out when she was sleeping who wanted to do "one more test." But mostly, we processed our fears and concerns away from my daughter. It took almost a month at home before she was fully recovered, but the time in the hospital was not traumatic.
> My thoughts are with you. . . just take it one step at a time. . .
> ~ Colleen
>

Renee Boisvert

I am a certified child life specialist. (not practicing right now... home
learning) CLSs help children and families cope with hospitalization and
medical issues. Emergency medical situations and urgent care needs do
challenge unschooling beliefs. This is an important discussion.

You may ask if there is a child life specialist available. He or she can
help you to advocate, do medical play with your child, teach coping and
relaxation strategies to you and your child, and prepare your child for
invasive procedures. Even after a traumatic experience CL interventions can
help to process the experience and make future medical experiences less
daunting. You are the expert on your child, and a CLS will typically ask you
and your child lots of questions to help fit any plans to your child and
family.

If the hospital does not have a child life department, you might find a CLS
in private practice, or you could call the nearest children's hospital and
ask for a child life consult if there are issues left-over for your child
once you are home. (distress during eyedrops, anxiety about follow-up
visits...)

Years ago, when I was working in the field, we would recommend that
parents (and CLSs) decline to be the ones to restrain a child for a
procedure, and that they keep their role to providing comfort and calm for
the child. Now, there are guidelines for "positions of comfort" which
include ways for parents (or others) to hold a child for optimum comfort,
while gently restraining at the same time.

Here are 2 links which explain and give examples of comfort positioning.

http://www.stjude.org/SJFile/child_life_comfort_positions.pdf

http://www.chkd.org/Services/ChildLife/ComfortPositions.aspx


I hope that your son recovers quickly and completely.

Renee


On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 10:35 PM, nycartgal2003 <mranzer@...> wrote:

>
>
> We just spent the day in the ER, and we are now waiting for a bed so they
> can admit my 4 year old son to the hospital. It was a traumatic day for him.
> Strangers have been touching and talking to him all day. Some of the things
> that happened have been invasive and getting an IV put in hurt. He did not
> want the doctors to look at his eye, which is where the problem is. He was
> scared, and it hurt. It was urgent that they look at it while he was awake.
> I had to help hold him down. I would not have done this if it weren't so
> important. He has a serious eye infection. It felt so against all I believe
> in as a parent to restrain him like that, but the exam had to be done.
>
> There will be a few more days I'd tests, med, and prodding. How have any of
> you handled a situation like this?
>
> I usually re-write and edit more, but I've been in the ER for 14 hours, and
> I'm doing this quick while Logan is asleep.
>
> Meryl
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alex

>The doctors and nurses want to give good care and want our kids to heal, but the pressure and stress from their jobs might make it seem like they are cold or uncaring.

Seconding this. I was the primary caregiver to 2 dying family members in the last few years, and learned a lot about hospitals. Everyone--the patient, family, and staff--is best off if the family assumes that people working there are good people who are overburdened. Things get misplaced, people get distracted on their way to get something, miscommunication happens, and it is just because there are humans involved. Pleasantly follow up on everything. Don't take things personally, and don't try to be nice by waiting or watching silently if something seems off. It seems like you are highly involved. Just remember that stress is unhealthy and impedes healing, so keeping your advocacy as nonconfrontational as possible will help your son. I wish I had learned this before stressing out a lot of sick people. I know it's so easy to go all Mama Bear about your family, but you'll probably get checked on more often if you can stay pleasant enough that people don't dread visiting your room.

Alex N.

dezignarob

This is going to sound trivial, but it is amazing how a box of donuts or muffin basket for the nurses' station raises everyone's spirits and enhances the level of attentiveness.

Robyn L. Coburn

=== >The doctors and nurses want to give good care and want our kids to heal, but the pressure and stress from their jobs might make it seem like they are cold or uncaring.
>
> Seconding this. I was the primary caregiver to 2 dying family members in the last few years, and learned a lot about hospitals. Everyone--the patient, family, and staff--is best off if the family assumes that people working there are good people who are overburdened. ====

Robin Bentley

Yes, I remember how appreciative the nurses at the station were when I
took in a 3 dozen homemade cookies to thank them for their excellent
care. It was a simple thing for me to do.

I hope that the patients enjoyed their resulting care <g>.

Robin B.


> This is going to sound trivial, but it is amazing how a box of
> donuts or muffin basket for the nurses' station raises everyone's
> spirits and enhances the level of attentiveness.
>

[email protected]

This post is older, but I just read it. As a pediatruc nurse I'm just thinking that you may have felt awful, and your child may have temporarily felt that you had switched sides, but think how much worse it would have been if someone else had held him?

Swaddling even older kids and having a parent hold seems to work well and calms kids and avoids anyone (parent or staff)from inadvertently squeezing an arm or leg too hard.

HOpe all is better now.