Brutality and violence
Sandra Dodd
-=-When I wrote my e-mail, I had just read your post and I felt as though I (even though it wasn't addressed to me, and I am not in a similar situation) had been emotionally bludgeoned. I should have waited to write to you and responded more thoughtfully and made it clear that I was expressing my perceptions, not my judgment. Your e-mail felt very harsh to me, and I simply reacted. It did not appear to me to be part of a discussion; it appeared to me to be a brutal reprimand. -=-
This was addressed to me by e-mail, following a response I let through, but anonymously, in this thread:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/58476 (Unschooling from Bed)
The post which is being described above is here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/58478
I was asking the mom questions in order to get her to think of her situation in another way. I didn't call her a name, I didn't write "LOL" or anything belittling. Even if I had written the most terrible thing in the world, it wouldn't be brutal and it wouldn't be bludgeoning.
IF someone feels bludgeoned by words, I think they're probably on the edge of feeling terrible anyway, and are looking for something or someone to blame their emotions on. If something appears to be "brutal" but it was only words (and normal words, too--nothing nasty or hateful), that was in the eye of the beholder.
As for a "reprimand," it wasn't a reprimand at all. A reprimand would have been "don't write on my list anymore," or "write differently.
I don't know what to think about this: " It did not appear to me to be part of a discussion." The person who wrote that had been a member of Always Learning for over two years. Maybe she wasn't actually reading the list (that happens), but to accuse me of not being part of the discussion is quite odd.
Here are some thoughts about violence:
http://sandradodd.com/violence
There are pictures, too, but none are brutal or bludgeoning. They were done by a nice young man sitting at a table with pencils. He didn't stab anyone with a pencil, nor even point a pencil menacingly. He could have gone from there down to the bowling alley to break some windows, but instead he went to a scanner and sent me the pictures. It was really very civilized.
He did that because I asked him to.
I asked him to because I thought it would help unschooling parents think more clearly about what "violence" is, and is not.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This was addressed to me by e-mail, following a response I let through, but anonymously, in this thread:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/58476 (Unschooling from Bed)
The post which is being described above is here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/58478
I was asking the mom questions in order to get her to think of her situation in another way. I didn't call her a name, I didn't write "LOL" or anything belittling. Even if I had written the most terrible thing in the world, it wouldn't be brutal and it wouldn't be bludgeoning.
IF someone feels bludgeoned by words, I think they're probably on the edge of feeling terrible anyway, and are looking for something or someone to blame their emotions on. If something appears to be "brutal" but it was only words (and normal words, too--nothing nasty or hateful), that was in the eye of the beholder.
As for a "reprimand," it wasn't a reprimand at all. A reprimand would have been "don't write on my list anymore," or "write differently.
I don't know what to think about this: " It did not appear to me to be part of a discussion." The person who wrote that had been a member of Always Learning for over two years. Maybe she wasn't actually reading the list (that happens), but to accuse me of not being part of the discussion is quite odd.
Here are some thoughts about violence:
http://sandradodd.com/violence
There are pictures, too, but none are brutal or bludgeoning. They were done by a nice young man sitting at a table with pencils. He didn't stab anyone with a pencil, nor even point a pencil menacingly. He could have gone from there down to the bowling alley to break some windows, but instead he went to a scanner and sent me the pictures. It was really very civilized.
He did that because I asked him to.
I asked him to because I thought it would help unschooling parents think more clearly about what "violence" is, and is not.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Take time to read the section on Strongbad and write Sandra to tell her
exactly how you feel! And click on that word "work." Please I dare you. ;)
~Katherine
P.S.: I didn't respond to the Unschooling from Bed thread. When I first read
the title of it, I had in mind cosleeping and unschooling for some reason.
What I saw was a mom who might be having trouble she hasn't even thought
about yet. I worried that maybe her hormones might not be up to the task of
another pregnancy and that maybe she hasn't thought of that or how it could
color her outlook on her children. Emotions during and after pregnancy can
do a number on a woman and the people around her. The more pregnancies a
woman has, the more serious it can be because the older one gets, the less
ability one has to restore hormones.
Continual cycles of anger can bring on more and more bursts of adrenaline.
Cortisol is a precursor to other hormones (for men and women). Overusing
adrenaline without the protective effect of some outlet, such as gently
moving one's limbs if one isn't able to vigorously scrub perfectly clean
countertops or walk briskly like I do when feeling annoyed, angry or
frustrated, can lead to adrenal exhaustion. It doesn't just effect the
adrenals but just about all the hormones the body produces. The primary
function of cortisol is to short-circuit the brain's ability to reason and
think so that one can focus solely on reacting as quickly as possible.
~Katherine
exactly how you feel! And click on that word "work." Please I dare you. ;)
~Katherine
P.S.: I didn't respond to the Unschooling from Bed thread. When I first read
the title of it, I had in mind cosleeping and unschooling for some reason.
What I saw was a mom who might be having trouble she hasn't even thought
about yet. I worried that maybe her hormones might not be up to the task of
another pregnancy and that maybe she hasn't thought of that or how it could
color her outlook on her children. Emotions during and after pregnancy can
do a number on a woman and the people around her. The more pregnancies a
woman has, the more serious it can be because the older one gets, the less
ability one has to restore hormones.
Continual cycles of anger can bring on more and more bursts of adrenaline.
Cortisol is a precursor to other hormones (for men and women). Overusing
adrenaline without the protective effect of some outlet, such as gently
moving one's limbs if one isn't able to vigorously scrub perfectly clean
countertops or walk briskly like I do when feeling annoyed, angry or
frustrated, can lead to adrenal exhaustion. It doesn't just effect the
adrenals but just about all the hormones the body produces. The primary
function of cortisol is to short-circuit the brain's ability to reason and
think so that one can focus solely on reacting as quickly as possible.
~Katherine
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-When I wrote my e-mail, I had just read your post and I felt as though I
> (even though it wasn't addressed to me, and I am not in a similar situation)
> had been emotionally bludgeoned. I should have waited to write to you and
> responded more thoughtfully and made it clear that I was expressing my
> perceptions, not my judgment. Your e-mail felt very harsh to me, and I
> simply reacted. It did not appear to me to be part of a discussion; it
> appeared to me to be a brutal reprimand. -=-
>
> This was addressed to me by e-mail, following a response I let through, but
> anonymously, in this thread:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/58476 (Unschooling
> from Bed)
>
> The post which is being described above is here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/58478
>
> I was asking the mom questions in order to get her to think of her
> situation in another way. I didn't call her a name, I didn't write "LOL" or
> anything belittling. Even if I had written the most terrible thing in the
> world, it wouldn't be brutal and it wouldn't be bludgeoning.
>
> IF someone feels bludgeoned by words, I think they're probably on the edge
> of feeling terrible anyway, and are looking for something or someone to
> blame their emotions on. If something appears to be "brutal" but it was
> only words (and normal words, too--nothing nasty or hateful), that was in
> the eye of the beholder.
>
> As for a "reprimand," it wasn't a reprimand at all. A reprimand would have
> been "don't write on my list anymore," or "write differently.
>
> I don't know what to think about this: " It did not appear to me to be
> part of a discussion." The person who wrote that had been a member of
> Always Learning for over two years. Maybe she wasn't actually reading the
> list (that happens), but to accuse me of not being part of the discussion is
> quite odd.
>
> Here are some thoughts about violence:
> http://sandradodd.com/violence
> There are pictures, too, but none are brutal or bludgeoning. They were
> done by a nice young man sitting at a table with pencils. He didn't stab
> anyone with a pencil, nor even point a pencil menacingly. He could have
> gone from there down to the bowling alley to break some windows, but instead
> he went to a scanner and sent me the pictures. It was really very
> civilized.
>
> He did that because I asked him to.
> I asked him to because I thought it would help unschooling parents think
> more clearly about what "violence" is, and is not.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tamara
The information on hormones, pregnancy and anger are very interesting to me. Could you recommend any books or resources I might look at?
Many thanks,
Tamara
I worried that maybe her hormones might not be up to the task of
Many thanks,
Tamara
I worried that maybe her hormones might not be up to the task of
> another pregnancy and that maybe she hasn't thought of that or how it could
> color her outlook on her children. Emotions during and after pregnancy can
> do a number on a woman and the people around her. The more pregnancies a
> woman has, the more serious it can be because the older one gets, the less
> ability one has to restore hormones.
>
> Continual cycles of anger can bring on more and more bursts of adrenaline.
> Cortisol is a precursor to other hormones (for men and women). Overusing
> adrenaline without the protective effect of some outlet, such as gently
> moving one's limbs if one isn't able to vigorously scrub perfectly clean
> countertops or walk briskly like I do when feeling annoyed, angry or
> frustrated, can lead to adrenal exhaustion. It doesn't just effect the
> adrenals but just about all the hormones the body produces. The primary
> function of cortisol is to short-circuit the brain's ability to reason and
> think so that one can focus solely on reacting as quickly as possible.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
>
>
>
>
k
The same situations can be stressful for some and not frightening or
frustrating for others. I think that's worth noting. And the key to seeing
that a person can change the effect on themselves of future situations they
might encounter. Mindfulness is very beneficial before situations arrive at
a stress point.
Tons I could recommend but starting with the very basic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response
And I've picked up a lot of info just reading about things that didn't
appear to me under the headings "hormones, pregnancy, anger" etc. Jean
Auel's Clan of the Cave Bears, for instance, as well as Richard Adam's
Watership Down, mention in passing the effect of stress on reproduction in
the female, which is to lower or stop fertility or even cause spontaneous
abortions.
Stress is not always physical. It isn't always sourced from something
suddenly appearing. Sometimes it's things like constant hunger. Hunger
probably was a frequent occurrence that formed a lot about stress response,
when you consider that --even not hungry-- people lessen stress with food.
Food is interesting. It expresses welcome and creates a soothing effect,
hence the phrase "comfort food."
I think a person who might not remember that the effects of stress are
multiple or may not have thought about stresssss multiplying or being
transferable or increased by sharing with or passing on to others, that's a
person who may be under more profound levels of stress than s/he realizes.
Mindfulness before crunch times helps me immensely. That can be practiced
along with open curiosity about the world around us, as opposed to deciding
to close off to new things for fear of thinking about them. I think
unmindfulness is itself a source of continual stress because it blocks off
alternatives to stress.
Most of us haven't encountered the stress of animal attacks. Forethought is
even beneficial there:
http://www.nextnature.net/2010/05/norwegian-boy-saves-sister-from-moose-attack-with-world-of-warcraft-skills/
The cumulative effect of mindful practice is to prepare for whatever
comes... stressful or not. This link to an audio of a talk on mindfulness
was very illuminating and I recommend it to anyone especially those new to
unschooling. http://sandradodd.com/rentalk
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
frustrating for others. I think that's worth noting. And the key to seeing
that a person can change the effect on themselves of future situations they
might encounter. Mindfulness is very beneficial before situations arrive at
a stress point.
>>>The information on hormones, pregnancy and anger are very interesting tome. Could you recommend any books or resources I might look at?<<<
Tons I could recommend but starting with the very basic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response
And I've picked up a lot of info just reading about things that didn't
appear to me under the headings "hormones, pregnancy, anger" etc. Jean
Auel's Clan of the Cave Bears, for instance, as well as Richard Adam's
Watership Down, mention in passing the effect of stress on reproduction in
the female, which is to lower or stop fertility or even cause spontaneous
abortions.
Stress is not always physical. It isn't always sourced from something
suddenly appearing. Sometimes it's things like constant hunger. Hunger
probably was a frequent occurrence that formed a lot about stress response,
when you consider that --even not hungry-- people lessen stress with food.
Food is interesting. It expresses welcome and creates a soothing effect,
hence the phrase "comfort food."
I think a person who might not remember that the effects of stress are
multiple or may not have thought about stresssss multiplying or being
transferable or increased by sharing with or passing on to others, that's a
person who may be under more profound levels of stress than s/he realizes.
Mindfulness before crunch times helps me immensely. That can be practiced
along with open curiosity about the world around us, as opposed to deciding
to close off to new things for fear of thinking about them. I think
unmindfulness is itself a source of continual stress because it blocks off
alternatives to stress.
Most of us haven't encountered the stress of animal attacks. Forethought is
even beneficial there:
http://www.nextnature.net/2010/05/norwegian-boy-saves-sister-from-moose-attack-with-world-of-warcraft-skills/
The cumulative effect of mindful practice is to prepare for whatever
comes... stressful or not. This link to an audio of a talk on mindfulness
was very illuminating and I recommend it to anyone especially those new to
unschooling. http://sandradodd.com/rentalk
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
The link Katherine sent "Tons I could recommend but starting with the very
basic:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response" links to Robert
Sapolsky's book Why Zebra's Don't Get Ulcers which is a fabulous book. Here's
Dr. Sapolsky speaking at the
TEDs: http://www.ted.com/talks/robert_sapolsky_the_uniqueness_of_humans.html.
I would absolutely recommend anything he writes.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
basic:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response" links to Robert
Sapolsky's book Why Zebra's Don't Get Ulcers which is a fabulous book. Here's
Dr. Sapolsky speaking at the
TEDs: http://www.ted.com/talks/robert_sapolsky_the_uniqueness_of_humans.html.
I would absolutely recommend anything he writes.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
Schuyler - the link to the TED talk is a dead end from here - do you have another way to it by chance?
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather
just take the period off the end of the link.
worked for me
heather
tucson az
worked for me
heather
tucson az
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Ed Wendell <ewendell@...> wrote:
>
>
> Schuyler - the link to the TED talk is a dead end from here - do you have
> another way to it by chance?
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrCVu25wQ5s&feature=player_embedded#! might work.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Ed Wendell <ewendell@...>
Schuyler - the link to the TED talk is a dead end from here - do you have
another way to it by chance?
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Ed Wendell <ewendell@...>
Schuyler - the link to the TED talk is a dead end from here - do you have
another way to it by chance?
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
We got it by removing the period at the end of the link. Thanks, it was very informational.
Ed W.
Ed W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Brutality and violence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrCVu25wQ5s&feature=player_embedded#! might work.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Ed Wendell <ewendell@...>
Schuyler - the link to the TED talk is a dead end from here - do you have
another way to it by chance?
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
http://sandradodd.com/t/gilligan
He gave me permission to quote him, about Gilligan's Island. I put it next to my own Gilligan's Island tale. :-)
Sandra
He gave me permission to quote him, about Gilligan's Island. I put it next to my own Gilligan's Island tale. :-)
Sandra