clarissa

My 4.5 year old has expressed interest in learning about Thanksgiving and why we have a meal with friends that day. I explained it from my perspective and offered some info about the mainstream idea of Thanksgiving. I have a found a few meant for older kids and may get those as well but wanted to check if anyone here might know of some others.

Many thanks!
Clarissa

Sandra Dodd

-=-My 4.5 year old has expressed interest in learning about
Thanksgiving and why we have a meal with friends that day. I explained
it from my perspective and offered some info about the mainstream idea
of Thanksgiving-=-

You could truthfully tell her that mythology has gotten mixed in with
whatever the facts might have been, but that it has become a
tradition, related to other harvest feasts, to gather with family or
friends and have a feast--more food than people can eat.

That's the difference between a meal and a feast, is the amount of
leftovers. :-)

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

I was always confused with linking Thanksgiving with harvests. Harvest,
especially as far up north in the states as the Pilgrims were, is well past
by the time Thanksgiving comes around. Probably is a reason for that.

~Katherine




On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> -=-My 4.5 year old has expressed interest in learning about
> Thanksgiving and why we have a meal with friends that day. I explained
> it from my perspective and offered some info about the mainstream idea
> of Thanksgiving-=-
>
> You could truthfully tell her that mythology has gotten mixed in with
> whatever the facts might have been, but that it has become a
> tradition, related to other harvest feasts, to gather with family or
> friends and have a feast--more food than people can eat.
>
> That's the difference between a meal and a feast, is the amount of
> leftovers. :-)
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sheeboo2

I like Sandra's comments, especially for a 4.5 year old, to focus on the unversiality of the harvest celebration theme. But for older kids (who are inteterested), there are some more specific resources:

Deconstructing the Myths of ―The First Thanksgiving:
http://www.oyate.org/resources/longthanks.html

Oyate has a list of Thanksgiving books as well (I haven't read any of them):
http://www.oyate.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=130&Itemid=69

This may be interesting for you to read yourself and retell to your son.....scroll down to Chuck Larson's children's story, "The Plymouth Thanksgiving Story"
http://www.manataka.org/page269.html

"1621: A New Look at Thanksgiving":
http://www.amazon.com/1621-New-Look-at-Thanksgiving/dp/0792270274

Fun website: "You are the Historian": http://plimoth.org/education/olc/index_js2.html

Brie

clarissa

Thanks so much for the responses! I will utilize the suggestion of focusing on the coming-together aspect. I read the stuff by Chuck Larson and bookmarked it for later use. I put a lot of pressure on myself to explain things accurately and it's hard for me to accept that I don't HAVE to offer the full historical account of things to the kids unless they are seeking that precise info!

Clarissa

--- In [email protected], "sheeboo2" <naturewalkersinfo@...> wrote:
>
> I like Sandra's comments, especially for a 4.5 year old, to focus on the unversiality of the harvest celebration theme. But for older kids (who are inteterested), there are some more specific resources:
>
> Deconstructing the Myths of ―The First Thanksgiving:
> http://www.oyate.org/resources/longthanks.html
>
> Oyate has a list of Thanksgiving books as well (I haven't read any of them):
> http://www.oyate.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=130&Itemid=69
>
> This may be interesting for you to read yourself and retell to your son.....scroll down to Chuck Larson's children's story, "The Plymouth Thanksgiving Story"
> http://www.manataka.org/page269.html
>
> "1621: A New Look at Thanksgiving":
> http://www.amazon.com/1621-New-Look-at-Thanksgiving/dp/0792270274
>
> Fun website: "You are the Historian": http://plimoth.org/education/olc/index_js2.html
>
> Brie
>

Sandra Dodd

-=- it's hard for me to accept that I don't HAVE to offer the full
historical account of things to the kids unless they are seeking that
precise info!-=-

And about Thanksgiving, it's impossible to offer "the full historical
account of things." What you can say is that there was a story for a
long time that turned out not to be completely true but it's still a
nice story. The movie Addams Family Values has a Thanksgiving
pageant gone wrong that might provide hooks to hang future thoughts
and snippets of information. :-)

Don't show this to kids without a private preview and consideration of
their feelings. It's crazy-broad comedy, as all Addams Family stuff is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccj2BH25c0I

I think it's really important not to take anything too seriously in
way of mythological/historical events, but I know some people's lives
are based one whether King Arthur really lived, or how much truth is
in Robin Hood or Krishna or Jesus. Some people will have a private
fit or leave the list because I used "Robin Hood or Krishna or Jesus"
as a phrase.

Some parts of history have been glorified. Some have been ignored.
Some have been and will be re-interpretted. New facts will be
discovered. It's impossible to make history be still and clear. It
isn't, and can't be. Two things can be true at once that don't fit
nicely into the same narrative.

For those really interested in history as history, the magic word to
research is "historiography."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa E Biesemeyer

While at the library today, I came across a Scholastic/Weston Woods dvd called
"Stories of Thanksgiving" that features two stories: "Giving Thanks:A Native
American Good Morning Message" (narrated in English and Mowhawk by Chief Jake
Swamp) and "The Pilgrims of Plimoth". I often rent/check out books, dvds, cds,
etc for my daughter (4.5yo) that share different perspectives on seasonal
activities/themes and holidays as I genuinely enjoy the conversations and
questions they tend to inspire. Anyhow, we haven't watched the video yet, but
I'm excited to see how/if it is received by her. Since our children are about
the same age, this may be something to check out as well.

Lisa B (mama to Rowan, 4.5yo, Liam and Finnian, 1yo this Thursday!!! YIKES!)

Lisa Biesemeyer




________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 6:13:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Historically Accurate Books About Thanksgiving
for Young Kids?


-=- it's hard for me to accept that I don't HAVE to offer the full
historical account of things to the kids unless they are seeking that
precise info!-=-

And about Thanksgiving, it's impossible to offer "the full historical
account of things." What you can say is that there was a story for a
long time that turned out not to be completely true but it's still a
nice story. The movie Addams Family Values has a Thanksgiving
pageant gone wrong that might provide hooks to hang future thoughts
and snippets of information. :-)

Don't show this to kids without a private preview and consideration of
their feelings. It's crazy-broad comedy, as all Addams Family stuff is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccj2BH25c0I

I think it's really important not to take anything too seriously in
way of mythological/historical events, but I know some people's lives
are based one whether King Arthur really lived, or how much truth is
in Robin Hood or Krishna or Jesus. Some people will have a private
fit or leave the list because I used "Robin Hood or Krishna or Jesus"
as a phrase.

Some parts of history have been glorified. Some have been ignored.
Some have been and will be re-interpretted. New facts will be
discovered. It's impossible to make history be still and clear. It
isn't, and can't be. Two things can be true at once that don't fit
nicely into the same narrative.

For those really interested in history as history, the magic word to
research is "historiography."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sheeboo2

--- New facts will be discovered. It's impossible to make history be still and clear. It
isn't, and can't be. Two things can be true at once that don't fit nicely into the same narrative.-----

I love this! For me, it also speaks to the joy of unschooling because there is the recognition that learning happens ALL the time--there's no need to list every detail *you* know in one sitting when you believe that your children will have the time/space to come to it when they're open and ready for the information. AND, there is no need to try and get history to sit still while you package it into a curriculum or learning objective!

I remember a college class I took called "Women in Ancient History." We read Sarah Pomeroy's book "Goddesses, Wives, Whores and Slaves: Women in Classical Antiquity" (http://www.amazon.com/Goddesses-Whores-Wives-Slaves-Classical/dp/080521030X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top). I was continually furious throughout the class. We encountered information I'd never learned in my other Ancient History classes and I'd feel a sense of betrayal, that I'd been duped by not being exposed to the "whole truth." Probably because there wasn't enough time, more so than due to malice or a desire to marginalize women.

But I was 20 years old and a product of years of schooling. Even at 7, my daughter has a better sense of agency over her learning than I did as a college junior. Unlike me, at 20, learning isn't something done to her--where she has to wait for mealtime to be fed-- it is something she does naturally; she feeds herself and her hunger is strong! Her world is so big that it is difficult to imagine her Not asking: "what about the women?" or "what did the Lenape do when the Europeans came?" and then my role as reference librarian kicks in.

And on that note, I'm off to try and find out if there is a chance any part of the Earth was left untouched by the Ice Age.....

Brie

Sandra Dodd

-=-New facts will be discovered. -=-

I think I would like to withdraw "facts" and replace it with "evidence
and reports."
:-)

Just in case, you know. Old "facts" are sometimes refuted or
clarified.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sheeboo2

--- I put a lot of pressure on myself to explain things accurately and it's hard for me to accept that I don't HAVE to offer the full historical account of things to the kids unless they are seeking that precise info!-----

---I put a lot of pressure on myself to explain things accurately and it's hard for me to accept that I don't HAVE to offer the full historical account of things to the kids unless they are seeking that precise info!------------

As Noor and I were discussing the various bits of information I found looking up the ice age question, I realized something specific to this. One of the theories about the ice age is that only 1/3 of the earth, the northern hemisphere, was covered. There are other theories. I started drawing pie charts to show her and reflected that I wouldn't have done that if she'd asked the question a year ago, maybe not even six months ago. She is really into pie charts right now, though. She's seeing things in fractions, in slices of pizza pie.

Her initial question was: "How much of the earth was covered by the ice age? Was there any place dinosaurs may have found to hide (Dinotopia-style)?"

There are so many pieces to that question! My role is to offer the information, listen/look for what she attaches to, and filter (don't like that word choice, but can't think of a better one) the rest from there and from what I know about her *right now.*

Six months ago, the question was more about what the ice age looked like. How did it happen? I had to look for ways to help her imagine the sun being blocked out, for years on end. Now she wants cartography, numbers, geology. Then she was open to images, repeated viewings of the sixth episode of "Walking with the Dinosaurs," a towel-covered jar that was left over a house plant for a few weeks.

There's more, in terms of the Thanksgiving question...

For me, it is also a matter of protection--that too much information can be overwhelming and cause shut-down. And that a lot about our world is scary. I have the power, while my daughter is still really young, to show her that the world is a messed up place or that people are generally good, although bad things happen. You never know how a child's mind will spin information, what fears/anxieties they'll take away from something innocuous. By showing them the loving, positive, bright-side of things when they're really young, you give them strength to feel powerful over facing (maybe even changing) the darker side of life/history. At least, this is what I believe.

Some may shriek, "Censorship"! I know that.....my husband used to. He feels that he grew-up undereducated and unaware. I grew up in a home that was very different; as a Jewish family, the "never forget" sentiment ran strong. By close to my dd's age, I'd already read Anne Frank's diary, Chaim Potok, Eli Wiesel. When our library got a new librarian who spoke with a heavy German accent, I was terrified of her.

At seven, Noor knows some things about the holocaust and about the genocide of American Indians. But I wouldn't have shared these things with her when she was 4.5.

If I extend Sandra's metaphor of unschooling as horticulture, I see my act of filtering information as though I'm protecting a new seedling from the weather, until her roots and stalk are strong enough to withstand the winds and rain and snow.

Brie

sheeboo2

--- If I extend Sandra's metaphor of unschooling as horticulture, I see my act of filtering information as though I'm protecting a new seedling from the weather, until her roots and stalk are strong enough to withstand the winds and rain and snow.-----

Opps...the proverbial links are glaringly absent from my post:

"Changing the World: Some Thoughts on Unschooling": http://sandradodd.com/thoughts

And Pam reiterating the same sentiment plus more good stuff, "How to be a Good Unschooler":
http://sandradodd.com/pam/howto

B

Sandra Dodd

-=-At seven, Noor knows some things about the holocaust and about the
genocide of American Indians. But I wouldn't have shared these things
with her when she was 4.5.

-=-If I extend Sandra's metaphor of unschooling as horticulture, I see
my act of filtering information as though I'm protecting a new
seedling from the weather, until her roots and stalk are strong enough
to withstand the winds and rain and snow.-=-

Nearly the entire world exists between censorship of information and
loading a child with more than she can handle.
http://sandradodd.com/balance

Sandra




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