The problem with "support"
Sandra Dodd
This comes around a couple of times a year, but I'm bringing something
Meredith has written elsewhere. First there's a little bit of
background, and then her entire post.
A mom asked for advice about teens, and several unschoolers offered
their experiences and advice.
=============
To "defend" the mom from the answers to her questions, someone wrote:
"I can tell already you have a sweet, tender, sensitive heart [name of
original poster]! May the LORD bless you abundantly and grant you much
wisdom as you live and learn joyfully with your wonderful children
that HE has BLESSED you with. I can tell you are an amazing Mom!"
-----------------
The original poster wrote:
"I cannot tell you how much your words meant to me...*sniff*...thank
you"
------------------
I wrote (following other actual information about the question):
"If you prefer people saying they can tell you're an amazing mother to
having people help you discover what you might do differently, there's
a collection of those messages here:
http://sandradodd.com/support "
-------------------------
the response was:
"I'm a little offend on the last line from you. I don't prefer to only
hear I'm great, compared to ways I can parent differently.... But
someone telling me that they can tell I'm a good mom, that is support
and encouraging."
----------------------
Meredith wrote:
But someone telling me that they can tell I'm a good mom, that is
support and encouraging.
Its not based in anything, though. Its polite social "noise". There's
no way at all for someone who "knows" you only through a handful of
posts online to have any idea what kind of parent you are. While it
might feel good, its empty, like a random compliment about the color
of your car.
The point isn't that you should feel bad about yourself as a parent,
but that its good to question ideas about parenting - good in that
there's a whoooooole lot of pure "noise" where parenting is concerned,
things that everyone knows only becauses everyone says them. "Children
need rules" is one example, and "you need to be a parent not a friend"
and "the most important thing is love". Most parenting discussions
consist of nothing but those sort of empty "truisms" repeated back and
forth mindlessly, with much nodding and affirmation so that everyone
feels like she's part of the conversation - but parenting remains
essentially the same and we're all good mommies if our kids survive
the experience and if they don't we did our best, right? We all have
to do what works for us, right? (irony)
Unschooling starts at a different place than other kinds of parenting,
though, and to understand that it's important to question everything
you think you know about parenting, including the idea of being "a
good parent". Step away from "good mom" and look at your individual
children. What will, right this moment, allow their lives to be warmer
and softer and more pleasant? A scolding won't. A lecture won't.
Worrying over their future won't. The most wonderful - and startling -
thing about unschooling is that you Get to be someone your kids feel
good about. But you won't get there being a "good mom". You're more
likely to get there by being a good friend.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith has written elsewhere. First there's a little bit of
background, and then her entire post.
A mom asked for advice about teens, and several unschoolers offered
their experiences and advice.
=============
To "defend" the mom from the answers to her questions, someone wrote:
"I can tell already you have a sweet, tender, sensitive heart [name of
original poster]! May the LORD bless you abundantly and grant you much
wisdom as you live and learn joyfully with your wonderful children
that HE has BLESSED you with. I can tell you are an amazing Mom!"
-----------------
The original poster wrote:
"I cannot tell you how much your words meant to me...*sniff*...thank
you"
------------------
I wrote (following other actual information about the question):
"If you prefer people saying they can tell you're an amazing mother to
having people help you discover what you might do differently, there's
a collection of those messages here:
http://sandradodd.com/support "
-------------------------
the response was:
"I'm a little offend on the last line from you. I don't prefer to only
hear I'm great, compared to ways I can parent differently.... But
someone telling me that they can tell I'm a good mom, that is support
and encouraging."
----------------------
Meredith wrote:
But someone telling me that they can tell I'm a good mom, that is
support and encouraging.
Its not based in anything, though. Its polite social "noise". There's
no way at all for someone who "knows" you only through a handful of
posts online to have any idea what kind of parent you are. While it
might feel good, its empty, like a random compliment about the color
of your car.
The point isn't that you should feel bad about yourself as a parent,
but that its good to question ideas about parenting - good in that
there's a whoooooole lot of pure "noise" where parenting is concerned,
things that everyone knows only becauses everyone says them. "Children
need rules" is one example, and "you need to be a parent not a friend"
and "the most important thing is love". Most parenting discussions
consist of nothing but those sort of empty "truisms" repeated back and
forth mindlessly, with much nodding and affirmation so that everyone
feels like she's part of the conversation - but parenting remains
essentially the same and we're all good mommies if our kids survive
the experience and if they don't we did our best, right? We all have
to do what works for us, right? (irony)
Unschooling starts at a different place than other kinds of parenting,
though, and to understand that it's important to question everything
you think you know about parenting, including the idea of being "a
good parent". Step away from "good mom" and look at your individual
children. What will, right this moment, allow their lives to be warmer
and softer and more pleasant? A scolding won't. A lecture won't.
Worrying over their future won't. The most wonderful - and startling -
thing about unschooling is that you Get to be someone your kids feel
good about. But you won't get there being a "good mom". You're more
likely to get there by being a good friend.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dola dasgupta-banerji
Step away from "good mom" and look at your individual
children. What will, right this moment, allow their lives to be warmer
and softer and more pleasant? A scolding won't. A lecture won't.
Worrying over their future won't. The most wonderful - and startling -
thing about unschooling is that you Get to be someone your kids feel
good about. But you won't get there being a "good mom". You're more
likely to get there by being a good friend.
I like this. I too have a problem with tags which say "good this and good
that". I am afraid when people say "good mom. good wife, good daughter, good
friend, good husband, good parents, good son etc.." I have experienced this
good thing far too long. I know when people praise you using "good" they do
so only because you are fitting into what is acceptable to their "idea" of
good.
It is easy to fall into this trap, because it feeds the ego. I try now to
respond to needs and feelings that come from within me and my children.
Ideas of good and bad are relative and always in flux....and mostly come
loaded with a lot of selfish intentions.....
Dola
children. What will, right this moment, allow their lives to be warmer
and softer and more pleasant? A scolding won't. A lecture won't.
Worrying over their future won't. The most wonderful - and startling -
thing about unschooling is that you Get to be someone your kids feel
good about. But you won't get there being a "good mom". You're more
likely to get there by being a good friend.
I like this. I too have a problem with tags which say "good this and good
that". I am afraid when people say "good mom. good wife, good daughter, good
friend, good husband, good parents, good son etc.." I have experienced this
good thing far too long. I know when people praise you using "good" they do
so only because you are fitting into what is acceptable to their "idea" of
good.
It is easy to fall into this trap, because it feeds the ego. I try now to
respond to needs and feelings that come from within me and my children.
Ideas of good and bad are relative and always in flux....and mostly come
loaded with a lot of selfish intentions.....
Dola
On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> This comes around a couple of times a year, but I'm bringing something
> Meredith has written elsewhere. First there's a little bit of
> background, and then her entire post.
>
> A mom asked for advice about teens, and several unschoolers offered
> their experiences and advice.
> =============
>
> To "defend" the mom from the answers to her questions, someone wrote:
>
> "I can tell already you have a sweet, tender, sensitive heart [name of
> original poster]! May the LORD bless you abundantly and grant you much
> wisdom as you live and learn joyfully with your wonderful children
> that HE has BLESSED you with. I can tell you are an amazing Mom!"
>
> -----------------
> The original poster wrote:
>
> "I cannot tell you how much your words meant to me...*sniff*...thank
> you"
>
> ------------------
> I wrote (following other actual information about the question):
>
> "If you prefer people saying they can tell you're an amazing mother to
> having people help you discover what you might do differently, there's
> a collection of those messages here:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/support "
> -------------------------
> the response was:
>
> "I'm a little offend on the last line from you. I don't prefer to only
> hear I'm great, compared to ways I can parent differently.... But
> someone telling me that they can tell I'm a good mom, that is support
> and encouraging."
>
> ----------------------
> Meredith wrote:
>
> But someone telling me that they can tell I'm a good mom, that is
> support and encouraging.
>
> Its not based in anything, though. Its polite social "noise". There's
> no way at all for someone who "knows" you only through a handful of
> posts online to have any idea what kind of parent you are. While it
> might feel good, its empty, like a random compliment about the color
> of your car.
>
> The point isn't that you should feel bad about yourself as a parent,
> but that its good to question ideas about parenting - good in that
> there's a whoooooole lot of pure "noise" where parenting is concerned,
> things that everyone knows only becauses everyone says them. "Children
> need rules" is one example, and "you need to be a parent not a friend"
> and "the most important thing is love". Most parenting discussions
> consist of nothing but those sort of empty "truisms" repeated back and
> forth mindlessly, with much nodding and affirmation so that everyone
> feels like she's part of the conversation - but parenting remains
> essentially the same and we're all good mommies if our kids survive
> the experience and if they don't we did our best, right? We all have
> to do what works for us, right? (irony)
>
> Unschooling starts at a different place than other kinds of parenting,
> though, and to understand that it's important to question everything
> you think you know about parenting, including the idea of being "a
> good parent". Step away from "good mom" and look at your individual
> children. What will, right this moment, allow their lives to be warmer
> and softer and more pleasant? A scolding won't. A lecture won't.
> Worrying over their future won't. The most wonderful - and startling -
> thing about unschooling is that you Get to be someone your kids feel
> good about. But you won't get there being a "good mom". You're more
> likely to get there by being a good friend.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I like this. I too have a problem with tags which say "good this
and good
that". I am afraid when people say "good mom. good wife, good
daughter, good
friend, good husband, good parents, good son etc.." I have experienced
this
good thing far too long. I know when people praise you using "good"
they do
so only because you are fitting into what is acceptable to their
"idea" of
good.-=-
It's still good to think one is doing better and not worse. There is
such a thing as being a good mom. There is such a thing as being a
bad mom.
It's not good to pretend there's no difference.
Sandra
and good
that". I am afraid when people say "good mom. good wife, good
daughter, good
friend, good husband, good parents, good son etc.." I have experienced
this
good thing far too long. I know when people praise you using "good"
they do
so only because you are fitting into what is acceptable to their
"idea" of
good.-=-
It's still good to think one is doing better and not worse. There is
such a thing as being a good mom. There is such a thing as being a
bad mom.
It's not good to pretend there's no difference.
Sandra
dola dasgupta-banerji
Hmmm...I agree where you are coming from. Yes there is a difference between
good mom and bad mom. But would you agree if I said that many a times we are
blinded by our misconceptions of good and bad too.
I have seen with many moms that in trying to be good wives they end up being
bad moms. My husband's father abused him and his brothers physically and
sexually he regularly beat up his wife. But she remained the good wife by
tolerating all this and not seeing the larger picture how this violent
childhood scarred the children for life.
She says she remained in the marriage because if she left then the children
would have no dad to support them financially and that she has been a good
mom in doing so.
Even now she regularly takes her husbands side and refuses to acknowledge
the pain that her sons have gone through and are still facing the demons of
it in their adult lives and the sad part is the sons also think she is a
good mom.
You see our conditioning is such that we put people especially women who
silently suffer on the pedestal. This is the idea of good and bad that I was
referring to. This pedestal of goodness can be blinding and keep one far
away from the truth.
Dola
good mom and bad mom. But would you agree if I said that many a times we are
blinded by our misconceptions of good and bad too.
I have seen with many moms that in trying to be good wives they end up being
bad moms. My husband's father abused him and his brothers physically and
sexually he regularly beat up his wife. But she remained the good wife by
tolerating all this and not seeing the larger picture how this violent
childhood scarred the children for life.
She says she remained in the marriage because if she left then the children
would have no dad to support them financially and that she has been a good
mom in doing so.
Even now she regularly takes her husbands side and refuses to acknowledge
the pain that her sons have gone through and are still facing the demons of
it in their adult lives and the sad part is the sons also think she is a
good mom.
You see our conditioning is such that we put people especially women who
silently suffer on the pedestal. This is the idea of good and bad that I was
referring to. This pedestal of goodness can be blinding and keep one far
away from the truth.
Dola
On Sun, Sep 26, 010 at 11:17 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> -=-I like this. I too have a problem with tags which say "good this
> and good
> that". I am afraid when people say "good mom. good wife, good
> daughter, good
> friend, good husband, good parents, good son etc.." I have experienced
> this
> good thing far too long. I know when people praise you using "good"
> they do
> so only because you are fitting into what is acceptable to their
> "idea" of
> good.-=-
>
> It's still good to think one is doing better and not worse. There is
> such a thing as being a good mom. There is such a thing as being a
> bad mom.
>
> It's not good to pretend there's no difference.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Yes there is a difference between
good mom and bad mom. But would you agree if I said that many a times
we are
blinded by our misconceptions of good and bad too.-=-
It doesn't matter whether I agree or not. :-)
Each individual will either find her own balance or won't.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
Rejecting the idea of good and bad is no better than letting someone
else tell you what to do in every way.
-=-Even now she regularly takes her husbands side and refuses to
acknowledge
the pain that her sons have gone through and are still facing the
demons of
it in their adult lives and the sad part is the sons also think she is a
good mom.-=-
The alternative may have been more as she imagined, than as you are
imagining in retrospect. Divorce rarely makes things better. He
would still have been their dad, still been the way he was, and they
might have ended up with a stepmother. The mom would not be there for
them go to.
-=-You see our conditioning is such that we put people especially
women who
silently suffer on the pedestal. This is the idea of good and bad that
I was
referring to. This pedestal of goodness can be blinding and keep one far
away from the truth.-=-
I don't think you can talk about "our conditioning" and be referring
to everyone on this list. It's better for us to talk about
unschooling and unschooling families, whenever possible. Things
change, but they haven't changed so much that there is no difference
between good and bad.
If everything is as good as everything else, we could all put our kids
in school.
Sandra
good mom and bad mom. But would you agree if I said that many a times
we are
blinded by our misconceptions of good and bad too.-=-
It doesn't matter whether I agree or not. :-)
Each individual will either find her own balance or won't.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
Rejecting the idea of good and bad is no better than letting someone
else tell you what to do in every way.
-=-Even now she regularly takes her husbands side and refuses to
acknowledge
the pain that her sons have gone through and are still facing the
demons of
it in their adult lives and the sad part is the sons also think she is a
good mom.-=-
The alternative may have been more as she imagined, than as you are
imagining in retrospect. Divorce rarely makes things better. He
would still have been their dad, still been the way he was, and they
might have ended up with a stepmother. The mom would not be there for
them go to.
-=-You see our conditioning is such that we put people especially
women who
silently suffer on the pedestal. This is the idea of good and bad that
I was
referring to. This pedestal of goodness can be blinding and keep one far
away from the truth.-=-
I don't think you can talk about "our conditioning" and be referring
to everyone on this list. It's better for us to talk about
unschooling and unschooling families, whenever possible. Things
change, but they haven't changed so much that there is no difference
between good and bad.
If everything is as good as everything else, we could all put our kids
in school.
Sandra