awarren27607

My dd10 has had the same best friend since she was little. They live here in the neighborhood and spend most every afternoon together. Overtime both the girls have become more and more hurtful (words) towards each other. I never realized how much of an affect this friendship had on all of us in the family until the friend moved away for six months earlier this year to live with the non-custodial parent. During those six months I watched my daughter absolutely bloom and a lot of her temper and crying jags disappeared. But, then after Christmas the girl came back and suddenly my daughter was referring to herself as stupid again, putting down her younger sisters, and just generally taking out her frustrations with the rest of us in the house.

Dd10 and I have had talks about friendships and what type of people we would like to be friends with. We've talked about how her frustrations/anger at some of the things are understandable, but needing to find new ways to deal with them.

I've also tried to talk to her about finding other people to be friends with, some of the people she hung out with during the six months earlier who she blew off when the friend moved back (because the friend told her to). But, she says she can't because they have been friends for so long. I don't understand this because in most social situations she is well-liked and confident.

Should I put my foot down about playing with this friend (even though it totally goes against my grain)? The whole situation is upsetting not just to my daughter, but to the whole family. Are there any better conversations I can try with my daughter?

Thanks
Amy

Robin Bentley

> My dd10 has had the same best friend since she was little. They live
> here in the neighborhood and spend most every afternoon together.
> Overtime both the girls have become more and more hurtful (words)
> towards each other.

What do you do when you hear these words? Are there situations where
you step in?


> I've also tried to talk to her about finding other people to be
> friends with, some of the people she hung out with during the six
> months earlier who she blew off when the friend moved back (because
> the friend told her to). But, she says she can't because they have
> been friends for so long.

We went through a similar situation with a friend of my daughter's,
maybe around the same age. She felt loyal to her friend, especially
since this friend had a controlling mom. I think she felt sorry for
her and though she was hurt often by this kid from the time they were
small, she stuck by her.

I took steps to limit our contact, which was helped by moving away
ourselves. The girls have little in common now and the friend has been
in school for a few years. But Senna still considers the girl to be
her friend and remembers their good times together fondly.

> I don't understand this because in most social situations she is
> well-liked and confident.

I often wondered if there was something Senna was learning by staying
friends with the girl. Senna's not one to put up with too much
otherwise, and it was puzzling to me.
>
> Should I put my foot down about playing with this friend (even
> though it totally goes against my grain)? The whole situation is
> upsetting not just to my daughter, but to the whole family. Are
> there any better conversations I can try with my daughter?

How about doing more things in the afternoon without this friend? Less
talk, more action <g>.

Robin B.

aldq75

"How about doing more things in the afternoon without this friend? Less talk, more action"

---

I agree. Maybe the girls spending less time together will help find a good balance for your daughter and the entire family.

I do think there are occasionally times when we need to step in. With my own kids, sometimes a well-timed interruption gets them to ask for help in solving a problem. Or, it can subtly redirect them to something more positive.

Andrea Q

--- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>
> > My dd10 has had the same best friend since she was little. They live
> > here in the neighborhood and spend most every afternoon together.
> > Overtime both the girls have become more and more hurtful (words)
> > towards each other.
>
> What do you do when you hear these words? Are there situations where
> you step in?
>
>
> > I've also tried to talk to her about finding other people to be
> > friends with, some of the people she hung out with during the six
> > months earlier who she blew off when the friend moved back (because
> > the friend told her to). But, she says she can't because they have
> > been friends for so long.
>
> We went through a similar situation with a friend of my daughter's,
> maybe around the same age. She felt loyal to her friend, especially
> since this friend had a controlling mom. I think she felt sorry for
> her and though she was hurt often by this kid from the time they were
> small, she stuck by her.
>
> I took steps to limit our contact, which was helped by moving away
> ourselves. The girls have little in common now and the friend has been
> in school for a few years. But Senna still considers the girl to be
> her friend and remembers their good times together fondly.
>
> > I don't understand this because in most social situations she is
> > well-liked and confident.
>
> I often wondered if there was something Senna was learning by staying
> friends with the girl. Senna's not one to put up with too much
> otherwise, and it was puzzling to me.
> >
> > Should I put my foot down about playing with this friend (even
> > though it totally goes against my grain)? The whole situation is
> > upsetting not just to my daughter, but to the whole family. Are
> > there any better conversations I can try with my daughter?
>
> How about doing more things in the afternoon without this friend? Less
> talk, more action <g>.
>
> Robin B.
>

awarren27607

--- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>
> > My dd10 has had the same best friend since she was little. They live
> > here in the neighborhood and spend most every afternoon together.
> > Overtime both the girls have become more and more hurtful (words)
> > towards each other.
>
> What do you do when you hear these words? Are there situations where
> you step in?
>
If I hear them putting each other down I do step in and ask them to either rephrase what they are trying to say in a nicer way. I've also explained that we just don't put other people down or be mean for the sake of being mean. My dd is generally the reactor not the instigator in these situations. But, they are 10 and I have not made them play right there in my presence for a couple of years...so sometimes I get information after the fact.
>
> > I've also tried to talk to her about finding other people to be
> > friends with, some of the people she hung out with during the six
> > months earlier who she blew off when the friend moved back (because
> > the friend told her to). But, she says she can't because they have
> > been friends for so long.
>
> We went through a similar situation with a friend of my daughter's,
> maybe around the same age. She felt loyal to her friend, especially
> since this friend had a controlling mom. I think she felt sorry for
> her and though she was hurt often by this kid from the time they were
> small, she stuck by her.
>
> I took steps to limit our contact, which was helped by moving away
> ourselves. The girls have little in common now and the friend has been
> in school for a few years. But Senna still considers the girl to be
> her friend and remembers their good times together fondly.
>
> > I don't understand this because in most social situations she is
> > well-liked and confident.
>
> I often wondered if there was something Senna was learning by staying
> friends with the girl. Senna's not one to put up with too much
> otherwise, and it was puzzling to me.
> >
If I thought that dd was helping this girl in anyway I probably wouldn't feel this way. After playing with this particular friend my daughter is so much more reactive and sensitive to us in the house. It is like after playing with the friend, dd wants to start a fight with someone here in the house just to get out her frustration. Also, her self-esteem dies when she is around the friend too much, especially as the friend likes to point out dd's phonetic spelling and laugh about it.
> > Should I put my foot down about playing with this friend (even
> > though it totally goes against my grain)? The whole situation is
> > upsetting not just to my daughter, but to the whole family. Are
> > there any better conversations I can try with my daughter?
>
> How about doing more things in the afternoon without this friend? Less
> talk, more action <g>.
>
I've been trying to figure that out. Most afternoons we are home because ds3 still takes a nap. It is hard to keep her home when all the kids in the neighborhood are home from school and out playing. We generally have activities most evenings, but there is a 2-hour window between school letting out and us going out. And, of course as of today it is summer. I can put my foot down and insist she stays home, but I'm trying to overcome my controlling tendencies ;-). Playing with friends is extremely important to dd - given a choice she will always choose to play or hang out with someone else (I'm really trying hard to be okay with that).
> Robin B.
>

Thanks for the input.

Amy

Robin Bentley

>> How about doing more things in the afternoon without this friend?
>> Less
>> talk, more action <g>.
>>
> I've been trying to figure that out. Most afternoons we are home
> because ds3 still takes a nap. It is hard to keep her home when all
> the kids in the neighborhood are home from school and out playing.
> We generally have activities most evenings, but there is a 2-hour
> window between school letting out and us going out. And, of course
> as of today it is summer. I can put my foot down and insist she
> stays home, but I'm trying to overcome my controlling
> tendencies ;-). Playing with friends is extremely important to dd -
> given a choice she will always choose to play or hang out with
> someone else (I'm really trying hard to be okay with that).

Those aren't the only two choices, though.

Could you, on occasion, take both kids out in the car, prior to your
son's nap? He can fall asleep in the car. Or carry him to the car
while he's sleeping. You guys can go for an interesting drive
somewhere. Maybe pick up ice cream cones at a drive-in, or get some
dinner before the evening activities (these are all things your
daughter wants to do, right? and the 3 year-old is going, too, also?).

Napping toddlers are often portable, too, in a stroller or a wagon
with pillows and blankets. Can you go for a walk to a playground?
Maybe your daughter will meet some different kids.

Creativity in the face of such difficult situations is what can make
unschooling flow. It can be easy to get into an insidious "either or"
scenario (either she plays with said friend or you "put your foot
down"), but resist it. Try to make other possibilities more appealing.

You've said "put my foot down" twice in two posts. Do you put your
foot down on other things? Is that what you mean about controlling
tendencies? You might want to think about that seriously. Being
controlling isn't very good for unschooling. I know, because I've had
to repeatedly let go of those tendencies myself.

You can see the results of control on your daughter, as it sounds like
her friend is pretty controlling. By coming up with alternatives for
your daughter that are fun and connect the two of you (or three of you
or more), she'll eventually see how much happier her life can be.

Robin B.

awarren27607

> Could you, on occasion, take both kids out in the car, prior to your
> son's nap? He can fall asleep in the car. Or carry him to the car
> while he's sleeping. You guys can go for an interesting drive
> somewhere. Maybe pick up ice cream cones at a drive-in, or get some
> dinner before the evening activities (these are all things your
> daughter wants to do, right? and the 3 year-old is going, too, also?).
>
Those are good ideas and ds3 has started to miss a few naps so it probably won't be much longer that we will be working around his nap.

> Creativity in the face of such difficult situations is what can make
> unschooling flow. It can be easy to get into an insidious "either or"
> scenario (either she plays with said friend or you "put your foot
> down"), but resist it. Try to make other possibilities more appealing.

This is what I am trying to learn ;)

> You've said "put my foot down" twice in two posts. Do you put your
> foot down on other things? Is that what you mean about controlling
> tendencies? You might want to think about that seriously. Being
> controlling isn't very good for unschooling. I know, because I've had
> to repeatedly let go of those tendencies myself.
>
I'm not perfect, but no I am really not controlling or limiting in letting my 4 kids decide how to spend their time. Which, is probably why this situation bugs me so much. As far as the "putting my foot down" statement it is coming from my momma bear gut. I just keep seeing my daughter getting emotionally hurt and I want it to stop. I also see how this friendship affects not only her, but the two middle girls (7 & 5) and myself through dd10's grumpiness over being hurt.

The incident at the beginning of the week made me want to just react in that way though. I didn't/haven't. I'm just personally really, really tired of the drama.

> You can see the results of control on your daughter, as it sounds like
> her friend is pretty controlling. By coming up with alternatives for
> your daughter that are fun and connect the two of you (or three of you
> or more), she'll eventually see how much happier her life can be.
>
> Robin B.
>

Thanks again!

Amy

Connie Johnson

This question is for those that have older kids who were late readers. My son
is 13 and just started to figure out reading last year (as he was interested
in WOW and needed to commuicate with his guild). He is able to read signs now
and short sentences. He chooses to read via computer games rather than
through books at the moment. Yesterday he told me he really wants to read
better and I would like to support him with that. In the past when he's
asked me to help him read we have both walked away frustrated and that is why
I just let him be and now he is starting to read- i don't know what clicked,
but something did. My question is, how do i support him with his goal of
wanting to read better but not frustrate him or i in the process? Any
suggestions from those with older kids that were in the same situation would
be great! thanks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jill Parmer

On Jun 11, 2010, at 7:41 AM, Connie Johnson wrote:

> My son
> is 13 and just started to figure out reading last year (as he was
> interested
> in WOW and needed to commuicate with his guild). He is able to read
> signs now
> and short sentences. He chooses to read via computer games rather than
> through books at the moment. Yesterday he told me he really wants
> to read
> better and I would like to support him with that. In the past when
> he's
> asked me to help him read we have both walked away frustrated and
> that is why
> I just let him be and now he is starting to read- i don't know what
> clicked,
> but something did. My question is, how do i support him with his
> goal of
> wanting to read better but not frustrate him or i in the process?

What does "wants to read better" mean to him? Read faster? more?
novels? read out loud without sounding choppy?

My guess is that if he's functioning well in his WoW (World of
Warcraft) guild he's reading well.

WoW is a great place to read, especially with an active RP (role-
playing) guild. One of my kids learned to read mainly from WoW. I
sat by him or would go to him *every* time he needed help reading a
quest. As the months went by he didn't call on me as often, and then
none at all. I'm guessing here, but I think this process was about
12 months, give or take.

Not knowing exactly what your son means, I'll take a stab in the dark
with some suggestions.

-Start a character with him and role play with him using in-game chat.

-See if he wants to complete this achievement on one of his
character, http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=1244 They are all the
books around in various places around the game, short reads, and you
get to know the lore. The achievement is called Well Read. ;-)

- Almost complete list of in-game WoW books http://ptr.wowhead.com/
objects=9

- Silly books the drop in the game ...
A cookbook, http://www.wowhead.com/item=5428/an-exotic-cookbook
"A Steamy Romance Novel" in 3 parts:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=37467/a-steamy-romance-novel-forbidden-love
http://www.wowhead.com/item=29571
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=46023

My kids enjoy the World of Warcraft novels, I find the writing to be
a bit dry. But they give so much of the WoW lore that I am able to
keep reading. http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:4 (Books
from the Blizzard store)

~Jill (Addi 16, Luke 12)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

Everything Jill said.

My daughter's reading took off from playing computer games like Zoo
Tycoon and Impossible Creatures. Like WoW, in order to get to the next
level, you need to read instructions to understand what you're
supposed to do. Maybe find some games like that to supplement his WoW
playing. He can play Warcraft - it doesn't have MMORPG reading
immediacy and he gets the lore and understanding to boost his WoW
playing!

Since he's clearly computer-savvy, those kinds of reading challenges
may appeal to him a lot more than books. Books don't have the same
kinds of goal achievement!

Senna, my daughter, started reading novels *after* she got the in-game
reading down.

Robin B.

Jenny Cyphers

***Yesterday he told me he really wants to read
better and I would like to support him with that.***

Was it a request for help or was it a wish and anticipation for reading better?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I'm not perfect, but no I am really not controlling or limiting in
letting my 4 kids decide how to spend their time. Which, is probably
why this situation bugs me so much. As far as the "putting my foot
down" statement it is coming from my momma bear gut. I just keep
seeing my daughter getting emotionally hurt and I want it to stop.-=-


If you say "putting my foot down" about anything, it's not a phrase
you created for the situation. It's an idiom used without clear and
conscious thought. It belies "I am really not controlling or
limiting..."

Any time you can't rephrase something in your own words, it's probably
not a good thing to say.

http://sandradodd.com/phrases

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]