Lisa

Thank you Sandra for the discussion on the other thread. I am gaining immense value from it.

I have another issue already. :(

My son just turned 7. He frequently has what my husband just called a 'focus issue'.

What he is doing TODAY is he says he wants to plant the flowers, but as soon as he sits down to do it he decides he doesn't want to afterall.

So then he says he wants to go fishing. And then when daddy starts getting the poles together he says he doesnt' want to afterall.

We recently bought a lego mindstorms kit for him because he was FASCINATED by it and wanted it. He played with it for a few minutes and now hasn't touched it in months and always says 'no, he doesn't want to play with it' when anyone asks to do it with him.

I could go on and on. My opinion on this issue is that it is getting WORSE. Seems like the only things he wants to do for any length of time is watch TV, watch youtube, or play with his friends or eat sweets.

I feel like anytime anything seems to be the least bit tedious or hard he doesn't want to do it.

I'm afraid that him watching as much TV as he wants and never being 'required' to do anything like a chore is contibuting to this.

Sometimes I feel like he is pushy, bossy, unappreciative, and unable to take on any task at all that isn't easy and wasn't his idea.

Other times I think he is the most amazing thing on the planet - (but still with pushy, bossy, flitty tendencies.)

Sandra Dodd

-=-What he is doing TODAY is he says he wants to plant the flowers,
but as soon as he sits down to do it he decides he doesn't want to
afterall.
-=-So then he says he wants to go fishing. And then when daddy starts
getting the poles together he says he doesnt' want to afterall.-=-

Were those his ideas out of the blue? Or did someone say "What do you
want to do?"

Or was planting flowers or fishing something a parent was doing with
enthusiasm, and he wanted in on that cool adult activity?

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

***What he is doing TODAY is he says he wants to plant the flowers, but as soon as he sits down to do it he decides he doesn't want to afterall.***

What are you doing when he's starting to plant? Are you telling him how to do it or are you letting him do it?

***So then he says he wants to go fishing. And then when daddy starts getting the poles together he says he doesnt' want to afterall.***

When Dylan was about seven, David ruined fishing for him for a few years by telling him how to do it. Is that happening with your son? Is he getting too much instruction and not enough plain old happy participation from the two of you?

***I feel like anytime anything seems to be the least bit tedious or hard he doesn't want to do it.***

I think seven year olds are especially starting to feel that they are less capable than big people and they don't like it. Who wants to feel like they can't do anything right? So, having the ability to think of cool things to do does not necessarily mean he feels he can successfully do those cool things. And if you're kind of attached to the idea that he has to do things a particular way you might be contributing to his feelings that he won't be able to do it right.

***Sometimes I feel like he is pushy, bossy, unappreciative, and unable to take on any task at all that isn't easy and wasn't his idea.***

Maybe you have a focus issue.<g> You're focusing too much on things you think are wrong with him. I think sometimes Only children get too much critical scrutiny from parents.
Next time you look at him critically stop yourself and think of one or two really cool things about him.

Seven is still really little. He has all the years ahead to fish or plant flowers or build Legos. If he doesn't do them now, nothing is lost.

Deb Lewis






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

emiLy Quick

Lisa,

Just wanted to let you know that my daughter is similar. She will be 7 in October. She likes to try things out, but only REALLY enjoys a few things. She will get into activities, and then not be into them for a long time. But I have observed this for a long time and know to keep things around because she will get back into them.

We almost always have the TV on, but are almost always also doing something else while we watch. Can you set up an area so your son can see the TV and do his legos at the same time?

I don't like doing very many tedious or hard things, either. I'm realizing that I really DON'T enjoy gardening. Too tedious, too hard. I don't enjoy it. Sure, it's satisfying when I do get a whole big area weeded and it looks better than it did, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to procrastinate weeding again next time. I was just laughing with my daughter about all my unfinished knitting projects after complaining about her wanting to use her knitting yarn for something else. I put off things I DO enjoy doing, too!

Sometimes I think about what I would do if I could go back to childhood, and be so free. I think sometimes I want my daughter to appreciate her childhood more, or use it better, or do what I would do. I could limit her TV and force her to do more, create more, read more, whatever -- but that's just silly. She will find her own interests and spend the time she wants to on those interests.

Playing with friends is fantastic!

-emiLy

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I have a seven year old and he does not jump around too much but his cousin  that is just a year older has always been the kind of child that jumps from one thing to another constantly.
You could say he sounds like your son  at that age.
 He is a very bright child . I have to say that he does not jump from one thing to another as much as he used to.
He has gotten older.
 He is a very athletic/physical boy and needs lots of big movement. More than sitting around fishing, planting or doing things like that.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
 



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vidyut Kale

"Seems like the only things he wants to do for any length of time is watch
TV, watch youtube, or play with his friends or eat sweets."

There you go. There are things he wants to do consistently. What's wrong
with them?

Many grown ups do that too. My DH does. Then suddenly he will get a burst of
other activity, finish to go back to watching TV or head out with his
buddies. Not ideal from my perspective, yes, but not catastrophic either and
he seems to be getting whatever it is he wants from them. I don't think kids
are any different.

"he doesn't want to afterall."

Just noticed a difference in the kind of activities he gets attracted to and
doesn't want to do afterall and the ones you say he is happy to do all the
time. The ones he changes his mind about require him to take responsibility
for the outcomes (I am basing this on my perception that you seem to think
they are 'fruitful initiatives'). This can be tough on a little guy and may
make him decide its not worth risking his image for. Its daunting for anyone
to enter something different not knowing if they can do it well enough. Kids
in particular seem sensitive to this.

Would it work to keep the gardening equipment around or the lego or whatever
it is he expressed interest in him, without giving in to your urge to see
what he makes out of it? If its okay if he uses the gardening bucket for a
hat while he tosses the lego at some target on the wall?

I think what I'm trying to say is to let it go. Let it be like the TV - its
there if he want's to check it out, but he doesn't have to create any
immediate meaning from it. You will know if you are 'doing this right' when
it stops mattering if he 'follows through' or not, like you don't care if he
flips through five channels or watches two shows - its all TV and he is
watching what he wants.

Another way might be to play with the lego yourself if it holds meaning for
you WITHOUT expecting him to join you - just have fun (and if it isn't
funny, don't expect it to be funny for him, just because he thought it
looked cool in the shop - I know I've got my share of things that I didn't
like after buying them). If you are really engrossed in enjoying it, it is a
larger invitation than you asking him to join you.

"I feel like anytime anything seems to be the least bit tedious or hard he
doesn't want to do it."

There isn't a single person I know who WANTS to do something tedious or
hard. There are plenty who have learned to enjoy challenges, but still, not
tedious. It may help to not expect him to want it, particularly since he's
being absolutely normal in avoiding it.

"him watching as much TV as he wants and never being 'required' to do
anything like a chore is contibuting to this"

Absolutely. And its wonderful that he is learning to do exactly what he
wants to do. Asserting himself without adopting the worlds expectations and
guilt. It is your expectations that is causing your trauma. Be gentle with
yourself. You have a lifetime of moments to enjoy with your son, and no one
is going to test him on whether he is a champion lego architect and judge
you if you don't have a list of things he can do. Just see the refusals of
what doesn't engage him as his wonderfully efficient way of getting rid of
the clutter to create space for his passions. They may be present, they may
emerge. Find things to enjoy with him. Celebrate putting toys away, because
what he wants is not being fulfilled by them and he's searching for
something 'greater' (or lesser, or different... better fit).

I remember when I'd created a complicated gadget last month. I went through
all kinds of scrap looking for a specific kind of ring. I purchased three
rings, hunted around the house, experimented with using bangles, N's toys,
husband's tools.... finally what worked was sawing off the hook end of the
curtain hooks. My dad would call it taking a whim for using/buying, but
discarding tools, jewellery, toys, purchased rings..... and finally,
damaging property :D I got a cool ball conveyer for N. The objective is
greater than the means.

Vidyut


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 4/4/2010 3:15 PM, Deb Lewis wrote:
> ***What he is doing TODAY is he says he wants to plant the flowers,
> but as soon as he sits down to do it he decides he doesn't want to
> afterall.*** l

"Sits down" to do it? Sits down to plant flowers?

If a little guy like him shows a bit of interest in growing plants, the
next time I had the chance, I'd get some bean seeds and stick them in
some wet cotton in a glass. I'd keep them damp and show him, just super
briefly, how they were sprouting. Don't make him sit down to do anything
- just do something kind of fun and interesting. Stick some toothpicks
into a sweet potato so the end of it can stick into some water in a
glass while the toothpicks hold it mostly up out of the water. It will
sprout and grow into a gorgeous vine. Plant some super easy to grow
seeds in dirt in an egg carton or little dixie cups oand you keep it
damp so you can watch the sprouts grow. Buy a tomato plant, already
growing, not seeds, and plant it in a big pot.

Don't have him "Sit down to...." do anything. Just do some quick little
thing along the lines of what he's showing some interest in - you do it,
but let him help do whatever bits he wants to do IF he wants to do
something.

Oh - and if it was specifically flowers - then stick some sunflower
seeds into the ground (not the roasted and salted ones <G>) and wait for
them to start growing. Plant them in a circle wide enough for a boy to
stand in the middle of them. When they are big, you can pull the tops
together and it becomes a sort of sunflower hut. Very fun. You do it,
let him help to the extent he jumps in and wants to do so

-pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

>>>Maybe you have a focus issue.<g> You're focusing too much on things you
think are wrong with him. I think sometimes Only children get too much
critical scrutiny from parents.
Next time you look at him critically stop yourself and think of one or two
really cool things about him.<<<

I was a middle child, with ideas, and if I peeped a word about them, people
would swarm over them and either take over or laugh them off as silly.
Nothing I said was taken in stride or viewed as neutral. So I learned early
to keep things to myself, and by the time I was 5 I just did things by
myself like going to visit the new baby in the neighborhood on my own two
feet. I got comfortable doing things people disapproved of and punished me
for. (Not the worst thing but probably not always great for survival.) I
really bucked criticism hard (I sometimes still do). Not all kids do that.
Some just give up and become less than themselves, some seek to do things
only with the approval of groups, etc. It depends on the traits of the
individual as to how that person responds.

From my experience as a child, it helps to realize that it's possible to
unconsciously criticize or automatically "guide" a child.

Next time an interest is expressed... make the way to it shorter. Taking the
example of fishing: maybe the interest isn't about catching fish but playing
with the line, messing about with the fishing rod mechanics, magically
"catching" something, etc. I remember when we were kids (I forget the name
of the game... "go fish" maybe) a person would be behind a curtain and the
child would drop a string attached to a stick (fishing pole) behind the
curtain, and get a "prize" like candy or a toy clipped to the line. It
wasn't about real fishing at all but it was fun. Maybe it was silly compared
to real fishing but ... I liked it.

Karl will definitely drop an idea if people get too much into it and take
over or comment on it too much. Listen more. Ask simple questions that
aren't about the adult version of reality and take the child's cues
seriously if the interest is slight. Let it be slight. Let it amount to
nothing without worrying and attaching big future goals to what a child
might chance to say. Let it be whatever it will be. Allow tons of meandering
and exploring.

Do you have things on display that are fun to handle, look at, listen to,
fiddle with, attach to other things? It makes for more cleaning up (which I
don't do near often enough in my opinion) but Karl plays with them a lot. I
have at this table a jar of marbles, a Lego boat that's been
reconfigured/redesigned by Karl, a train whistle, popsicle sticks with jokes
printed on them. I move these things and tidy them up. We just got rid of a
dresser that has wobbly drawers that come off track. That means finding
stuff that has been "hidden" out of sight and rediscovering them... ah "new"
stuff! Last week I changed out the contents of one bookcase for another
because I was looking for something (didn't find it but found a bunch of
other things) and in the process, I rearranged so that what's on display is
changed up.

Those are things one can do something (or seemingly nothing) with whenever
one gets the notion to.

~Katherine








On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:

> ***What he is doing TODAY is he says he wants to plant the flowers, but as
> soon as he sits down to do it he decides he doesn't want to afterall.***
>
> What are you doing when he's starting to plant? Are you telling him how
> to do it or are you letting him do it?
>
> ***So then he says he wants to go fishing. And then when daddy starts
> getting the poles together he says he doesnt' want to afterall.***
>
> When Dylan was about seven, David ruined fishing for him for a few years by
> telling him how to do it. Is that happening with your son? Is he getting
> too much instruction and not enough plain old happy participation from the
> two of you?
>
> ***I feel like anytime anything seems to be the least bit tedious or hard
> he doesn't want to do it.***
>
> I think seven year olds are especially starting to feel that they are less
> capable than big people and they don't like it. Who wants to feel like
> they can't do anything right? So, having the ability to think of cool
> things to do does not necessarily mean he feels he can successfully do those
> cool things. And if you're kind of attached to the idea that he has to do
> things a particular way you might be contributing to his feelings that he
> won't be able to do it right.
>
> ***Sometimes I feel like he is pushy, bossy, unappreciative, and unable to
> take on any task at all that isn't easy and wasn't his idea.***
>
> Maybe you have a focus issue.<g> You're focusing too much on things you
> think are wrong with him. I think sometimes Only children get too much
> critical scrutiny from parents.
> Next time you look at him critically stop yourself and think of one or two
> really cool things about him.
>
> Seven is still really little. He has all the years ahead to fish or plant
> flowers or build Legos. If he doesn't do them now, nothing is lost.
>
> Deb Lewis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I remember when we were kids (I forget the name
of the game... "go fish" maybe) a person would be behind a curtain and
the
child would drop a string attached to a stick (fishing pole) behind the
curtain, and get a "prize" like candy or a toy clipped to the line. It
wasn't about real fishing at all but it was fun. Maybe it was silly
compared
to real fishing but ... I liked it.-=-

If you have kittens or a playful cat, you can tie a toy to a string
and pull it across the floor for the cat to chase.

We had a toy we called "kitty fishing" and it was like a fat-plastic
rod and reel with a ball with feathers on it, made for playing with
cats.

Some dogs will play that too.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

>>>I don't like doing very many tedious or hard things, either. I'm
realizing that I really DON'T enjoy gardening. Too tedious, too hard. I
don't enjoy it. Sure, it's satisfying when I do get a whole big area weeded
and it looks better than it did, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to
procrastinate weeding again next time. I was just laughing with my daughter
about all my unfinished knitting projects after complaining about her
wanting to use her knitting yarn for something else. I put off things I DO
enjoy doing, too!<<<

I am finally getting into gardening which I never have gone for because of
what you've said here. It's boring all by itself. I just got a wireless
headphone set which hooks up to a lot of different things: the computer, my
CD/tape player/radio. Now I go out with them on and get some gardening done
while listening to an eBook, music, etc.

That goes along with the idea that lots of kids (and many don't outgrow the
trait) like to do more than one thing at a time. Watching tv all by itself
may not be as interesting as watching tv while playing with Legos, batting a
balloon around, jumping on a mini-trampoline, talking to the characters in
the show, playacting with a play sword/shield ... Karl is almost always
moving around and switching activities.

~Katherine




On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:37 PM, emiLy Quick <emilyjo@...> wrote:

> Lisa,
>
> Just wanted to let you know that my daughter is similar. She will be 7 in
> October. She likes to try things out, but only REALLY enjoys a few things.
> She will get into activities, and then not be into them for a long time.
> But I have observed this for a long time and know to keep things around
> because she will get back into them.
>
> We almost always have the TV on, but are almost always also doing something
> else while we watch. Can you set up an area so your son can see the TV and
> do his legos at the same time?
>
> I don't like doing very many tedious or hard things, either. I'm realizing
> that I really DON'T enjoy gardening. Too tedious, too hard. I don't enjoy
> it. Sure, it's satisfying when I do get a whole big area weeded and it
> looks better than it did, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to
> procrastinate weeding again next time. I was just laughing with my daughter
> about all my unfinished knitting projects after complaining about her
> wanting to use her knitting yarn for something else. I put off things I DO
> enjoy doing, too!
>
> Sometimes I think about what I would do if I could go back to childhood,
> and be so free. I think sometimes I want my daughter to appreciate her
> childhood more, or use it better, or do what I would do. I could limit her
> TV and force her to do more, create more, read more, whatever -- but that's
> just silly. She will find her own interests and spend the time she wants to
> on those interests.
>
> Playing with friends is fantastic!
>
> -emiLy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***We almost always have the TV on, but are almost always also doing something else while we watch. Can you set up an area so your son can see the TV and do his legos at the same time?***

There are some people, like my husband and his mother, that really can't just do one thing at a time, they must be doing several things or they really can't focus well. They both use the tv or music to help them get stuff done. My m-i-l even reads while she does her morning walks. The local newspaper took a photo of her doing it.

Margaux is showing signs of being similar in that way. She usually has 2 or 3 things on the burner at once! If she's just doing one thing at a time, she'll get bored and move on to something else.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***Next time an interest is expressed... make the way to it shorter. Taking the
example of fishing: maybe the interest isn't about catching fish but playing
with the line, messing about with the fishing rod mechanics, magically
"catching" something, etc. I remember when we were kids (I forget the name
of the game... "go fish" maybe) a person would be behind a curtain and the
child would drop a string attached to a stick (fishing pole) behind the
curtain, and get a "prize" like candy or a toy clipped to the line. It
wasn't about real fishing at all but it was fun. Maybe it was silly compared
to real fishing but ... I liked it.***

We've used fishing poles to "catch" cats at our house. We put something odd on the line and throw it and reel it in to see if any cats nearby pounce on it. They think it's great fun. The kids practice throwing lines. As I write this, John came in and did this exact thing, but with a really long cord. That cats weren't interested so he thought he'd try to catch me...

We've also done that game. You put a bunch of cards or pictures and put paper clips on them, then put a little magnet on the end of the fishing line to catch those things, you can put them in a big bucket or kiddie pool. That's an old game, one where if you caught a certain item, you'd win the prize.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

For those of you who find gardening tedious and boring, have you heard of Square Foot Gardening? It gets rid of a lot of that tediousness. I got my husband to build the box and rope off the squares inside. Then all I had to do was put in the soil and seeds and water. No hard work digging up the dirt. No weeding, so far!

I'm so bad I can't even stick with the SFG rules very well. The first year I followed the rules and put only a few seeds in each square and thinned them after they grew a bit. The second year I didn't have the distinct squares roped off anymore but I still tried to keep just a few plants in each square foot. This year I just threw seeds of various plants around in the box to see what will grow. I can't even remember everything I planted. I may not thin it out, either. I'd like to just let everything grow as it will and see what I get (vegie garden).

Alysia

k

This is what I'm doing:
http://carolinacountry.com/cgardens/thismonth/march09guide/straw.html

I'm just letting the bales sit and watering them for 3 or 4 weeks before
planting (rather than spraying nitrogen for a quick start), and I'll need to
because I'm starting seedlings to transplant. It's already quite hot here
and the whole thing should grow pretty quickly (I'm in South Carolina). It's
a no-dig, no-weeding garden.

~Katherine



On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:14 AM, keetry <keetry@...> wrote:

> For those of you who find gardening tedious and boring, have you heard of
> Square Foot Gardening? It gets rid of a lot of that tediousness. I got my
> husband to build the box and rope off the squares inside. Then all I had to
> do was put in the soil and seeds and water. No hard work digging up the
> dirt. No weeding, so far!
>
> I'm so bad I can't even stick with the SFG rules very well. The first year
> I followed the rules and put only a few seeds in each square and thinned
> them after they grew a bit. The second year I didn't have the distinct
> squares roped off anymore but I still tried to keep just a few plants in
> each square foot. This year I just threw seeds of various plants around in
> the box to see what will grow. I can't even remember everything I planted. I
> may not thin it out, either. I'd like to just let everything grow as it will
> and see what I get (vegie garden).
>
> Alysia
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

***...you who find gardening tedious and boring, ...***

Those words used together that way make no sense to me. <g> But I have a gardening gene. My dad was a gardener and he owned a commercial greenhouse. I grew up playing in the carnation house, I'll never forget the way it smelled like sweet cloves and warm earth, and the mum house, and hiding under the benches in the tomato house eating ripe tomatoes like apples. One house was full of Easter lilies and then they'd be gone all in one week and we'd plant dahlias and snapdragons.

My dad would put the straggly plants under the benches instead of throwing them out and they would live down there, creeping out into the walkways. They made for lovely hiding places under the benches, flower walls on either side. That was a wild, secret garden there with all those different discarded plants taking hold and then reaching out for the sun.

We rented a house when Dylan was little and got the ok to put in a garden. The owners had knocked down and old shed and there was junk all around. We got some friends to come with a backhoe and dump truck and they dug all the old junk out and brought in beautiful garden soil. It was an area right along the ally behind our house and across the ally was a busy mechanics shop. Those guys were always coming over to offer help or advice or to snag strawberries. One started mowing the lawn for me that summer, big huge lawn, and we had the old style push mower that's popular again now, but he must have felt sorry for me because he'd come to work every ten days or so on his riding mower and mow my big lawn. He always got raspberries and strawberries from me, pie in the summer and jam at Christmas. <g>

Also across the ally was a little shack of a house. The guy who lived there was a drunk, I never saw him sober, I don't think he worked. He'd stop at the garden to talk with me and I'd pull up some carrots or give him some zucchini or a handful of berries. He liked Dylan and carved little animals for him out of wood. We still have a few. He was always kind to us.

The deer and rabbits came after we put in the garden. They always left enough for us with the exception of cantaloupe. I finally resigned to buying cantaloupe at the market for us and plant it in the garden for the critters. It was a happy enough arrangement.

Dylan would come with me to the garden. I'd leave the garden gate open and the back door to the house open and in the hundred or so feet between garden and porch there was a clothes line swing, a sandbox, a wading pool and a dog. <g> Dylan would bring his Tonka trucks into the garden and dig holes and make tunnels. He'd help me dig potatoes and then haul them in his Tonka truck to the shady place to dry. He'd haul rocks away for me in his dump truck. He'd crouch in the beans and look for Daddy Long legs, and bring them for me to see. He'd look for ripe raspberries and take some to the dog. And if he got tired of the garden he had all those other things to do outside or could go in the house through that wide open door.

The garden was a destination providing soft dirt to dig, sweet treats, interesting spiders or on rainy days, good mud and big worms. Tall plants were alien monsters. A few years we made pole bean teepees. Those are such wonderful memories for both of us. A garden is so much more than just a garden.<g>

Years later my brother and his wife rented that house. The garden had gone wild with raspberries and asparagus and a sprawl of strawberries. They wouldn't let their kids play there, were afraid of the busy ally and the shop and the bad neighborhood. That big happy yard was a scary place to them because it didn't have a fence . I sent them pictures of toddler Dylan playing there, digging in the sandbox, picking rocks out of the garden and dumping them in the ally but they wouldn't let their kids outside.

My aunt lives in the house next door to our old house now, and our old place is vacant. She has commandeered that garden. The guys at the mechanics shop are getting raspberries again and the one who used to mow my lawn, plows my aunts sidewalk in the winter.<g>

There's no way to make someone love gardening, I guess, but all that life is inspiring. So if anyone needs inspiration I recommend gardening. More things will spring to life than you plant. <g>

Deb Lewis













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

This so beautiful, Deb. I thought of putting it out in public, but I
guess I didn't want your relatives to find themselves portrayed as
fearful garden-killing people. You were kind to neighbors and
neighbors were kind to you. It's just like fairy tale realities, that
people are rewarded for being good and kind. And birds would land on
their hands. :-)


Some people are that negative way about everything--cooking, laundry,
hanging out with kids, driving, shopping, feeding their pets.
Negativity, like weeds, like the junk where an old shed was torn
down. Negativity makes for a bad neighborhood, and a sad back yard.

Sandra
===================

***...you who find gardening tedious and boring, ...***

Those words used together that way make no sense to me. <g> But I have
a gardening gene. My dad was a gardener and he owned a commercial
greenhouse. I grew up playing in the carnation house, I'll never
forget the way it smelled like sweet cloves and warm earth, and the
mum house, and hiding under the benches in the tomato house eating
ripe tomatoes like apples. One house was full of Easter lilies and
then they'd be gone all in one week and we'd plant dahlias and
snapdragons.

My dad would put the straggly plants under the benches instead of
throwing them out and they would live down there, creeping out into
the walkways. They made for lovely hiding places under the benches,
flower walls on either side. That was a wild, secret garden there with
all those different discarded plants taking hold and then reaching out
for the sun.

We rented a house when Dylan was little and got the ok to put in a
garden. The owners had knocked down and old shed and there was junk
all around. We got some friends to come with a backhoe and dump truck
and they dug all the old junk out and brought in beautiful garden
soil. It was an area right along the ally behind our house and across
the ally was a busy mechanics shop. Those guys were always coming over
to offer help or advice or to snag strawberries. One started mowing
the lawn for me that summer, big huge lawn, and we had the old style
push mower that's popular again now, but he must have felt sorry for
me because he'd come to work every ten days or so on his riding mower
and mow my big lawn. He always got raspberries and strawberries from
me, pie in the summer and jam at Christmas. <g>

Also across the ally was a little shack of a house. The guy who lived
there was a drunk, I never saw him sober, I don't think he worked.
He'd stop at the garden to talk with me and I'd pull up some carrots
or give him some zucchini or a handful of berries. He liked Dylan and
carved little animals for him out of wood. We still have a few. He was
always kind to us.

The deer and rabbits came after we put in the garden. They always left
enough for us with the exception of cantaloupe. I finally resigned to
buying cantaloupe at the market for us and plant it in the garden for
the critters. It was a happy enough arrangement.

Dylan would come with me to the garden. I'd leave the garden gate open
and the back door to the house open and in the hundred or so feet
between garden and porch there was a clothes line swing, a sandbox, a
wading pool and a dog. <g> Dylan would bring his Tonka trucks into the
garden and dig holes and make tunnels. He'd help me dig potatoes and
then haul them in his Tonka truck to the shady place to dry. He'd haul
rocks away for me in his dump truck. He'd crouch in the beans and look
for Daddy Long legs, and bring them for me to see. He'd look for ripe
raspberries and take some to the dog. And if he got tired of the
garden he had all those other things to do outside or could go in the
house through that wide open door.

The garden was a destination providing soft dirt to dig, sweet treats,
interesting spiders or on rainy days, good mud and big worms. Tall
plants were alien monsters. A few years we made pole bean teepees.
Those are such wonderful memories for both of us. A garden is so much
more than just a garden.<g>

Years later my brother and his wife rented that house. The garden had
gone wild with raspberries and asparagus and a sprawl of strawberries.
They wouldn't let their kids play there, were afraid of the busy ally
and the shop and the bad neighborhood. That big happy yard was a scary
place to them because it didn't have a fence . I sent them pictures of
toddler Dylan playing there, digging in the sandbox, picking rocks out
of the garden and dumping them in the ally but they wouldn't let their
kids outside.

My aunt lives in the house next door to our old house now, and our old
place is vacant. She has commandeered that garden. The guys at the
mechanics shop are getting raspberries again and the one who used to
mow my lawn, plows my aunts sidewalk in the winter.<g>

There's no way to make someone love gardening, I guess, but all that
life is inspiring. So if anyone needs inspiration I recommend
gardening. More things will spring to life than you plant. <g>

Deb Lewis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

undermom

***There are some people, like my husband and his mother, that really can't just do one thing at a time, they must be doing several things or they really can't focus well. They both use the tv or music to help them get stuff done. My m-i-l even reads while she does her morning walks. The local newspaper took a photo of her doing it.***

My youngest daughter recently found that she could knit while reading, and that the knitting helped her to concentrate on the reading in the same way that listening to music does. (Knitting a familiar repetitive thing, similarly to listening to familiar music). She was quite thrilled with the discovery that she could plow through psychology textbook chapters more efficiently *and* finish promised gifts at the same time.

I'm really excited that this was something she was able to figure out for herself at the ripe old age of (almost) 18, without any baggage attached to "the right way to study". She's taking college classes because she wants to, taking the psychology class because she thought it sounded interesting. It comes with a rather massive, dense book, which I silently feared might intimidate her as she's still a fairly slow reader. (Her learning to read story Sandra saved for me at http://sandradodd.com/r/dacunefare ) As it happens, she's one of the only students in the class who's doing all the assigned reading. She's not intimidated, she makes sure she starts reading early enough to get done before the classroom discussion.

It turns out that one of the wonderful things about first going to school as a college student is that you get to skip all those mystery years, where every day is a new chance to screw up because you don't quite know what to expect. In college they give you a syllabus on the first day of class that lays out the schedule for the semester, expectations for both you *and* the instructor, dates for readings, tests, papers due. No anxiety from getting hit with a surprise reading assignment that you don't really have time to get done.

Deborah in IL

b prince

Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...>said on Mon, April 5, 2010 3:07:32
PM
**We put something odd on the line and throw it and reel it in to see if any cats nearby pounce on it.**
That reminds me that we had something like that for our dog. Dh had a red casting type weight that he would tie to the line and practice with while our dog loved chasing it back as he reeled it in. Lots of fun and great practice too.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lalow66

'>
> There's no way to make someone love gardening, I guess, but all that life is inspiring. So if anyone needs inspiration I recommend gardening. More things will spring to life than you plant. <g>
>
> Deb Lewis'


Your whole passage made tears come to my eyes. It made me remember my Grandfather, wearing his coveralls, taking me out to the woods to collect moss to put in his garden. And a hundred other images and memories...

k

>>> It made me remember my Grandfather, wearing his coveralls, taking me out
to the woods to collect moss to put in his garden.<<<

That's my kind of gardening. I have a "weed" I wish I knew the name of that
I have been cultivating for years. :)

~Katherine



On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:24 PM, lalow66 <lalow@...> wrote:

>
>
> '>
> > There's no way to make someone love gardening, I guess, but all that life
> is inspiring. So if anyone needs inspiration I recommend gardening. More
> things will spring to life than you plant. <g>
> >
> > Deb Lewis'
>
>
> Your whole passage made tears come to my eyes. It made me remember my
> Grandfather, wearing his coveralls, taking me out to the woods to collect
> moss to put in his garden. And a hundred other images and memories...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- I have a "weed" I wish I knew the name of that
I have been cultivating for years. :)-=-

If you put a photo of it on facebook or your blog (both, maybe)
someone could probably identify it for you.

When we first moved to this house 13 years ago, the yard had weeds I
didn't recognize, even though we only lived four miles away before.
Partly, our old neighborhood had been civilized since the 1950's.
Partly there's a significant elevation change. Partly our next-door
neighbors never ever clean or weed.

On one side, that weed patch. On the other side, a vacant lot that
had never been built on, so it had secondary growth (grasses and
things that would keep the primary weeds from taking root). So I
collected seeds from the grass in the vacant lot and when I pulled the
evil weeds (the had black straight stickers an inch long), I would put
that grass seed down.

I had little kids that year, and it was a big (big for this part of
Albuquerque) long-neglected yard. I couldn't fix it all up.

Now that it has lots of grass and bulbs and vines, trees and reeds,
there's still a lot of that wild grass of three species, and very few
of the neighbors' weeds.

I'm really calmly happy about that. It wasn't tedious. It certainly
didn't happen in one season!

I have a tree that's as tall as the house, as of last year. Two story
house, pitched roof. I grew it from seed. It's not a high-class
tree; it's a honey locust. There are several of them, but most are
smaller. I gathered the seeds while I talked to unschooling parents
at a park ten years ago.

On the other side of the house is a western Catalpa, also house-height
now. We brought that twelve years ago, a sapling from a friend's yard.

Free trees, strong and tall. Plant seeds and wait. (Not just
"wait." Prepare a good place for them, water them, let others know
you don't want it messed with... kind of like it is with kids.)

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Sandra, I posted it last year and a name was suggested but the pics I came
up with to match the name didn't match my "weed." Maybe they were less weedy
varieties of the same thing. Dunno. I'll post it again when I locate the
picture buried in my pic files. It's a tiny fuscia colored fairy looking
flower that grows on tall stalks from a furry blue green leaf base. Pretty
even before new stalks grow up and bloom.

I am taking it with me ...if I can... should we move somewhere else.

~Katherine




On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> -=- I have a "weed" I wish I knew the name of that
> I have been cultivating for years. :)-=-
>
> If you put a photo of it on facebook or your blog (both, maybe)
> someone could probably identify it for you.
>
> When we first moved to this house 13 years ago, the yard had weeds I
> didn't recognize, even though we only lived four miles away before.
> Partly, our old neighborhood had been civilized since the 1950's.
> Partly there's a significant elevation change. Partly our next-door
> neighbors never ever clean or weed.
>
> On one side, that weed patch. On the other side, a vacant lot that
> had never been built on, so it had secondary growth (grasses and
> things that would keep the primary weeds from taking root). So I
> collected seeds from the grass in the vacant lot and when I pulled the
> evil weeds (the had black straight stickers an inch long), I would put
> that grass seed down.
>
> I had little kids that year, and it was a big (big for this part of
> Albuquerque) long-neglected yard. I couldn't fix it all up.
>
> Now that it has lots of grass and bulbs and vines, trees and reeds,
> there's still a lot of that wild grass of three species, and very few
> of the neighbors' weeds.
>
> I'm really calmly happy about that. It wasn't tedious. It certainly
> didn't happen in one season!
>
> I have a tree that's as tall as the house, as of last year. Two story
> house, pitched roof. I grew it from seed. It's not a high-class
> tree; it's a honey locust. There are several of them, but most are
> smaller. I gathered the seeds while I talked to unschooling parents
> at a park ten years ago.
>
> On the other side of the house is a western Catalpa, also house-height
> now. We brought that twelve years ago, a sapling from a friend's yard.
>
> Free trees, strong and tall. Plant seeds and wait. (Not just
> "wait." Prepare a good place for them, water them, let others know
> you don't want it messed with... kind of like it is with kids.)
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marina DeLuca-Howard

My ten year old, Marty, has a strawberry patch, with a raspberry(mine from a
plant exchange) and blueberry(Crispin's) and mulberry tree growing amongst
the strawberries! We have had lots of rain this week, so he's been checking
on his plants! They are doing well:)
Marina

On 7 April 2010 12:03, k <katherand@...> wrote:

>
>
> Sandra, I posted it last year and a name was suggested but the pics I came
> up with to match the name didn't match my "weed." Maybe they were less
> weedy
> varieties of the same thing. Dunno. I'll post it again when I locate the
> picture buried in my pic files. It's a tiny fuscia colored fairy looking
> flower that grows on tall stalks from a furry blue green leaf base. Pretty
> even before new stalks grow up and bloom.
>
> I am taking it with me ...if I can... should we move somewhere else.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...<Sandra%40sandradodd.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > -=- I have a "weed" I wish I knew the name of that
> > I have been cultivating for years. :)-=-
> >
> > If you put a photo of it on facebook or your blog (both, maybe)
> > someone could probably identify it for you.
> >
> > When we first moved to this house 13 years ago, the yard had weeds I
> > didn't recognize, even though we only lived four miles away before.
> > Partly, our old neighborhood had been civilized since the 1950's.
> > Partly there's a significant elevation change. Partly our next-door
> > neighbors never ever clean or weed.
> >
> > On one side, that weed patch. On the other side, a vacant lot that
> > had never been built on, so it had secondary growth (grasses and
> > things that would keep the primary weeds from taking root). So I
> > collected seeds from the grass in the vacant lot and when I pulled the
> > evil weeds (the had black straight stickers an inch long), I would put
> > that grass seed down.
> >
> > I had little kids that year, and it was a big (big for this part of
> > Albuquerque) long-neglected yard. I couldn't fix it all up.
> >
> > Now that it has lots of grass and bulbs and vines, trees and reeds,
> > there's still a lot of that wild grass of three species, and very few
> > of the neighbors' weeds.
> >
> > I'm really calmly happy about that. It wasn't tedious. It certainly
> > didn't happen in one season!
> >
> > I have a tree that's as tall as the house, as of last year. Two story
> > house, pitched roof. I grew it from seed. It's not a high-class
> > tree; it's a honey locust. There are several of them, but most are
> > smaller. I gathered the seeds while I talked to unschooling parents
> > at a park ten years ago.
> >
> > On the other side of the house is a western Catalpa, also house-height
> > now. We brought that twelve years ago, a sapling from a friend's yard.
> >
> > Free trees, strong and tall. Plant seeds and wait. (Not just
> > "wait." Prepare a good place for them, water them, let others know
> > you don't want it messed with... kind of like it is with kids.)
> >
> > Sandra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--

If you can see that your life is full and that life is good, then you are
more apt to find something positive and agreeable in another person. Jenny C

Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-My ten year old, Marty, has a strawberry patch, with a
raspberry(mine from a
plant exchange) and blueberry(Crispin's) and mulberry tree growing
amongst
the strawberries! -=-

I used to have a ten year old Marty! :-)

I have one strawberry plant, that came up with some chrysanthemums in
a big pot someone gave me. I thought it was dead dirt, but it
wasn't. I expect to have ten strawberries this year. I'm perfectly
fine with whatever comes up in big pots people give me. Maybe that's
another way to keep gardening from being tedious. Water what comes up
that doesn't have any stickers on it, and maybe you'll end up with
free strawberries or flowers.

Sandra

Deb Lewis

***I posted it last year and a name was suggested but the pics I came up with to match the name didn't match my "weed." ***

Have your tried your county extension agent?
Or maybe, look on your state's website for native plants.
Our states native plant website also lists introduced species.
A search for *wild flower* might get different results than *weed* since some sites list (primarily) noxious weeds.

Deb Lewis




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Thanks for the ideas, Deb.

Also here's the link for anyone who wants to take a stab at
identifying my plant:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/katherand/4500757061/

~Katherine



On 4/7/10, Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:
> ***I posted it last year and a name was suggested but the pics I came up
> with to match the name didn't match my "weed." ***
>
> Have your tried your county extension agent?
> Or maybe, look on your state's website for native plants.
> Our states native plant website also lists introduced species.
> A search for *wild flower* might get different results than *weed* since
> some sites list (primarily) noxious weeds.
>
> Deb Lewis
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Sandra Dodd

Are the leaves fuzzy or smooth?


k

That was fast. Thanks to you both, Jean and Sandra. Last year when I
did this I was told it was Dusty Miller, which is true but several
kinds of flowers have that name and I couldn't match it up with a pic
of what I had.

~Katherine



On 4/7/10, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-Also here's the link for anyone who wants to take a stab at
> identifying my plant:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/katherand/4500757061/-=-
>
> Jean Dorsey says it's Rose Campion.
>
> http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=rose+campion&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
>
> lychnis coronaria
>
> http://courses.nres.uiuc.edu/hort344/perennials/summer/Lychnis%20coronaria.htm
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Katy Jennings

====I was told it was Dusty Miller====



I went to elementary school with a girl named Dusty Miller. I didn't know that it was a plant until I was an adult with my own garden!



Katy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]