my blog
Pam Sorooshian
I'm a terrible blogger. I keep trying. I write prolifically on lists,
like this one, but go completely blank when I try to write on a blog.
So - I have this little unschooling blog. It doesn't have a lot on it.
It is over a year old and I thought I'd write more and collect more
stuff on it, but I haven't. I did just put the post about lazy
unschoolers there, and I took a look and thought there is just enough
that I should go ahead and tell people it exists. I'm not making
promises, but my intention is to pay more attention to what I write on
lists or to individuals and to put more of that on the blog. If anybody
ever has the urge to remind me, it will always be appreciated, that's
for sure. I think I'm good at responding to questions, but not in coming
up with them myself.
It is here:
http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
like this one, but go completely blank when I try to write on a blog.
So - I have this little unschooling blog. It doesn't have a lot on it.
It is over a year old and I thought I'd write more and collect more
stuff on it, but I haven't. I did just put the post about lazy
unschoolers there, and I took a look and thought there is just enough
that I should go ahead and tell people it exists. I'm not making
promises, but my intention is to pay more attention to what I write on
lists or to individuals and to put more of that on the blog. If anybody
ever has the urge to remind me, it will always be appreciated, that's
for sure. I think I'm good at responding to questions, but not in coming
up with them myself.
It is here:
http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
Unschooling is really impossible to confuse with being lazy. It takes a
lot of time and energy and thought on the part of the parent. Now, for
some people, it is SO fun that it seems easy — just like anything else,
when you’re loving what you’re doing, it doesn’t seem like work.
But – it really does take a lot of time and devotion and focus — the
parent needs to really think about the child. A LOT. The parent needs to
bring interesting things and ideas and experiences to the child and this
means being always on the lookout for what the child might enjoy. It
means becoming super aware of your child – not only getting a good sense
of what might interest him or her, but how does h/she express that
interest and what is the best way for you to offer new and potentially
interesting ideas, experiences, and things. The parent needs to consider
when and how to support the child in further pursuing a current interest
and when the child might be more interested in moving on to something
else. The parent needs to be aware of when the child needs someone to
talk to and be with and interact with and when the child needs more
solitary time to think and pursue an interest on his/her own. The parent
needs to get a sense of when the kid needs a more active social life and
when he needs to meet some new people or when he needs help in staying
connected with old friends.
The parent needs to be so aware of the child that the parent
automatically thinks of him/her and partially sees the world through
h/her eyes.
This is all a tall order. Overly self-centered people can’t do it
because it requires a lot of empathy. People with too many personal
problems that they haven’t addressed in their own lives probably can’t
do it because they are too distracted by those. People who are too
negative or cynical can’t do it because they tend to crush interest and
joy, not build it up. People who lack curiosity and a certain amount of
gusto for life can’t really do it.
On the other hand, we grow into it. Turns out that we parents learn, too
<g>. So – when we are making moves, taking steps, in the direction of
unschooling, turns out the trail starts to open up in front of us and we
get more and more sure-footed as we travel the unschooling path.
My suggestion is that you ask yourself really honestly, is there
something more I could be doing for my child that would enhance my
child’s life? If the answer is yes, then make the choice to do it. Then
ask this question of yourself again and again and, each time, make the
life-enriching choice. Apply this to small things and to big momentous
decisions. Small things – could I make something for dinner that would
be special and interesting? Did I see a cool rock on the ground outside
– could I bring it in and wash it and set it on the table for others to
notice. Big things – would my child enjoy traveling – can we take a
family vacation that involves exploring things my child would find
interesting?
In unschooling, “lazy” means not thinking about enriching and enhancing
your child’s life. You change this by doing it – one choice at a time.
Unschooling is really impossible to confuse with being lazy. It takes a
lot of time and energy and thought on the part of the parent. Now, for
some people, it is SO fun that it seems easy — just like anything else,
when you’re loving what you’re doing, it doesn’t seem like work.
But – it really does take a lot of time and devotion and focus — the
parent needs to really think about the child. A LOT. The parent needs to
bring interesting things and ideas and experiences to the child and this
means being always on the lookout for what the child might enjoy. It
means becoming super aware of your child – not only getting a good sense
of what might interest him or her, but how does h/she express that
interest and what is the best way for you to offer new and potentially
interesting ideas, experiences, and things. The parent needs to consider
when and how to support the child in further pursuing a current interest
and when the child might be more interested in moving on to something
else. The parent needs to be aware of when the child needs someone to
talk to and be with and interact with and when the child needs more
solitary time to think and pursue an interest on his/her own. The parent
needs to get a sense of when the kid needs a more active social life and
when he needs to meet some new people or when he needs help in staying
connected with old friends.
The parent needs to be so aware of the child that the parent
automatically thinks of him/her and partially sees the world through
h/her eyes.
This is all a tall order. Overly self-centered people can’t do it
because it requires a lot of empathy. People with too many personal
problems that they haven’t addressed in their own lives probably can’t
do it because they are too distracted by those. People who are too
negative or cynical can’t do it because they tend to crush interest and
joy, not build it up. People who lack curiosity and a certain amount of
gusto for life can’t really do it.
On the other hand, we grow into it. Turns out that we parents learn, too
<g>. So – when we are making moves, taking steps, in the direction of
unschooling, turns out the trail starts to open up in front of us and we
get more and more sure-footed as we travel the unschooling path.
My suggestion is that you ask yourself really honestly, is there
something more I could be doing for my child that would enhance my
child’s life? If the answer is yes, then make the choice to do it. Then
ask this question of yourself again and again and, each time, make the
life-enriching choice. Apply this to small things and to big momentous
decisions. Small things – could I make something for dinner that would
be special and interesting? Did I see a cool rock on the ground outside
– could I bring it in and wash it and set it on the table for others to
notice. Big things – would my child enjoy traveling – can we take a
family vacation that involves exploring things my child would find
interesting?
In unschooling, “lazy” means not thinking about enriching and enhancing
your child’s life. You change this by doing it – one choice at a time.
lot of time and energy and thought on the part of the parent. Now, for
some people, it is SO fun that it seems easy — just like anything else,
when you’re loving what you’re doing, it doesn’t seem like work.
But – it really does take a lot of time and devotion and focus — the
parent needs to really think about the child. A LOT. The parent needs to
bring interesting things and ideas and experiences to the child and this
means being always on the lookout for what the child might enjoy. It
means becoming super aware of your child – not only getting a good sense
of what might interest him or her, but how does h/she express that
interest and what is the best way for you to offer new and potentially
interesting ideas, experiences, and things. The parent needs to consider
when and how to support the child in further pursuing a current interest
and when the child might be more interested in moving on to something
else. The parent needs to be aware of when the child needs someone to
talk to and be with and interact with and when the child needs more
solitary time to think and pursue an interest on his/her own. The parent
needs to get a sense of when the kid needs a more active social life and
when he needs to meet some new people or when he needs help in staying
connected with old friends.
The parent needs to be so aware of the child that the parent
automatically thinks of him/her and partially sees the world through
h/her eyes.
This is all a tall order. Overly self-centered people can’t do it
because it requires a lot of empathy. People with too many personal
problems that they haven’t addressed in their own lives probably can’t
do it because they are too distracted by those. People who are too
negative or cynical can’t do it because they tend to crush interest and
joy, not build it up. People who lack curiosity and a certain amount of
gusto for life can’t really do it.
On the other hand, we grow into it. Turns out that we parents learn, too
<g>. So – when we are making moves, taking steps, in the direction of
unschooling, turns out the trail starts to open up in front of us and we
get more and more sure-footed as we travel the unschooling path.
My suggestion is that you ask yourself really honestly, is there
something more I could be doing for my child that would enhance my
child’s life? If the answer is yes, then make the choice to do it. Then
ask this question of yourself again and again and, each time, make the
life-enriching choice. Apply this to small things and to big momentous
decisions. Small things – could I make something for dinner that would
be special and interesting? Did I see a cool rock on the ground outside
– could I bring it in and wash it and set it on the table for others to
notice. Big things – would my child enjoy traveling – can we take a
family vacation that involves exploring things my child would find
interesting?
In unschooling, “lazy” means not thinking about enriching and enhancing
your child’s life. You change this by doing it – one choice at a time.
Unschooling is really impossible to confuse with being lazy. It takes a
lot of time and energy and thought on the part of the parent. Now, for
some people, it is SO fun that it seems easy — just like anything else,
when you’re loving what you’re doing, it doesn’t seem like work.
But – it really does take a lot of time and devotion and focus — the
parent needs to really think about the child. A LOT. The parent needs to
bring interesting things and ideas and experiences to the child and this
means being always on the lookout for what the child might enjoy. It
means becoming super aware of your child – not only getting a good sense
of what might interest him or her, but how does h/she express that
interest and what is the best way for you to offer new and potentially
interesting ideas, experiences, and things. The parent needs to consider
when and how to support the child in further pursuing a current interest
and when the child might be more interested in moving on to something
else. The parent needs to be aware of when the child needs someone to
talk to and be with and interact with and when the child needs more
solitary time to think and pursue an interest on his/her own. The parent
needs to get a sense of when the kid needs a more active social life and
when he needs to meet some new people or when he needs help in staying
connected with old friends.
The parent needs to be so aware of the child that the parent
automatically thinks of him/her and partially sees the world through
h/her eyes.
This is all a tall order. Overly self-centered people can’t do it
because it requires a lot of empathy. People with too many personal
problems that they haven’t addressed in their own lives probably can’t
do it because they are too distracted by those. People who are too
negative or cynical can’t do it because they tend to crush interest and
joy, not build it up. People who lack curiosity and a certain amount of
gusto for life can’t really do it.
On the other hand, we grow into it. Turns out that we parents learn, too
<g>. So – when we are making moves, taking steps, in the direction of
unschooling, turns out the trail starts to open up in front of us and we
get more and more sure-footed as we travel the unschooling path.
My suggestion is that you ask yourself really honestly, is there
something more I could be doing for my child that would enhance my
child’s life? If the answer is yes, then make the choice to do it. Then
ask this question of yourself again and again and, each time, make the
life-enriching choice. Apply this to small things and to big momentous
decisions. Small things – could I make something for dinner that would
be special and interesting? Did I see a cool rock on the ground outside
– could I bring it in and wash it and set it on the table for others to
notice. Big things – would my child enjoy traveling – can we take a
family vacation that involves exploring things my child would find
interesting?
In unschooling, “lazy” means not thinking about enriching and enhancing
your child’s life. You change this by doing it – one choice at a time.
Jill Parmer
On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
computers. I was just telling her that, "I love Pam Sooroshian, I
love the way she writes and thinks and talks. Love, love, love."
~Jill (Addi 15, Luke 11)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> <<<I'm not makingAddi and I are sitting at the table chatting and doing stuff on
> promises, but my intention is to pay more attention to what I write on
> lists or to individuals and to put more of that on the blog. If
> anybody
> ever has the urge to remind me, it will always be appreciated,>>>
computers. I was just telling her that, "I love Pam Sooroshian, I
love the way she writes and thinks and talks. Love, love, love."
> <<< I think I'm good at responding to questions, but not in comingWould you like some question prompts? I'd be happy to send you some.
> up with them myself.>>>
~Jill (Addi 15, Luke 11)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/7/2010 9:53 AM, Jill Parmer wrote:
-pam
> Would you like some question prompts? I'd be happy to send you some.That would be wonderful wonderful wonderful!
>
> ~Jill (Addi 15, Luke 11)
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-Unschooling is really impossible to confuse with being lazy. It
takes a
lot of time and energy and thought on the part of the parent-=-
As much as it pains me to disagree with Pam Sorooshian, I disagree.
GOOD unschooling, responsible unschooling isn't lazy.
But there are moms who get tired of using a curriculum, or stress
comes into their lives, or someone is dying or wounded, and they go a
few months without the curriculum, or maybe a year, and they look back
and say "Oh! We were unschooling. I guess we'll keep unschooling."
And that can turn to lazy being called unschooling.
Unschooling done right is not laziness and doesn't allow for much
laziness.
Laziness (or just the lack of doing much for and with one's children)
can be and has been called "unschooling." Then people like me say
"That's not unschooling," and people who aren't doing much for or with
their children get all torqued and tell me I can't tell them they're
not unschoolers, that I don't own unschooling.
-=-But – it really does take a lot of time and devotion and focus — the
parent needs to really think about the child. A LOT.-=-
To do it well, the way Pam does.
-=-The parent needs to
bring interesting things and ideas and experiences to the child and this
means being always on the lookout for what the child might enjoy. It
means becoming super aware of your child – not only getting a good sense
of what might interest him or her, but how does h/she express that
interest and what is the best way for you to offer new and potentially
interesting ideas, experiences, and things. -=-
To do it as I did it for the past 18 years (Holly was born after Kirby
was unschooling, and she lately turned 18.)
-=-The parent needs to be so aware of the child that the parent
automatically thinks of him/her and partially sees the world through
h/her eyes.-=-
Good description of being the child's partner.
-=- People who are too
negative or cynical can’t do it because they tend to crush interest and
joy, not build it up. People who lack curiosity and a certain amount of
gusto for life can’t really do it.
-=-
This list has been known to help people become more positive and more
curious and joyful, though!
Sandra
takes a
lot of time and energy and thought on the part of the parent-=-
As much as it pains me to disagree with Pam Sorooshian, I disagree.
GOOD unschooling, responsible unschooling isn't lazy.
But there are moms who get tired of using a curriculum, or stress
comes into their lives, or someone is dying or wounded, and they go a
few months without the curriculum, or maybe a year, and they look back
and say "Oh! We were unschooling. I guess we'll keep unschooling."
And that can turn to lazy being called unschooling.
Unschooling done right is not laziness and doesn't allow for much
laziness.
Laziness (or just the lack of doing much for and with one's children)
can be and has been called "unschooling." Then people like me say
"That's not unschooling," and people who aren't doing much for or with
their children get all torqued and tell me I can't tell them they're
not unschoolers, that I don't own unschooling.
-=-But – it really does take a lot of time and devotion and focus — the
parent needs to really think about the child. A LOT.-=-
To do it well, the way Pam does.
-=-The parent needs to
bring interesting things and ideas and experiences to the child and this
means being always on the lookout for what the child might enjoy. It
means becoming super aware of your child – not only getting a good sense
of what might interest him or her, but how does h/she express that
interest and what is the best way for you to offer new and potentially
interesting ideas, experiences, and things. -=-
To do it as I did it for the past 18 years (Holly was born after Kirby
was unschooling, and she lately turned 18.)
-=-The parent needs to be so aware of the child that the parent
automatically thinks of him/her and partially sees the world through
h/her eyes.-=-
Good description of being the child's partner.
-=- People who are too
negative or cynical can’t do it because they tend to crush interest and
joy, not build it up. People who lack curiosity and a certain amount of
gusto for life can’t really do it.
-=-
This list has been known to help people become more positive and more
curious and joyful, though!
Sandra
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/7/2010 10:32 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
then I'm just going to say it - that is NOT unschooling.
I mean, would it be "Using Calvert Curriculum" if they bought a
curriculum and and put it on a shelf and never took it down? Maybe
people say that kind of thing, too, but it is clearly not justifiable to
say, "We are Calvert Curriculum users," if they don't actually use it.
In the same way, it is really not justifiable to say, "We're
unschoolers," if someone isn't really unschooling.
-pam
> As much as it pains me to disagree with Pam Sorooshian, I disagree.That's good, because now I can say, SEE?? She picks on me, too! Proof! <g>
>
> GOOD unschooling, responsible unschooling isn't lazy.If it is always lazy (as opposed to some down times once in a while)
>
then I'm just going to say it - that is NOT unschooling.
I mean, would it be "Using Calvert Curriculum" if they bought a
curriculum and and put it on a shelf and never took it down? Maybe
people say that kind of thing, too, but it is clearly not justifiable to
say, "We are Calvert Curriculum users," if they don't actually use it.
In the same way, it is really not justifiable to say, "We're
unschoolers," if someone isn't really unschooling.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-I mean, would it be "Using Calvert Curriculum" if they bought a
curriculum and and put it on a shelf and never took it down? Maybe
people say that kind of thing, too, but it is clearly not justifiable to
say, "We are Calvert Curriculum users," if they don't actually use it.
In the same way, it is really not justifiable to say, "We're
unschoolers," if someone isn't really unschooling.-=-
You're right BUT..... I bet there are hundreds of thousands of
"Calvert Curriculum users" who bought it, got the receipt, put the
books on the shelf, and didn't finish it all, or half, or 2/3, but
they still have the receipts and they still have the books. And so if
someone says "What curriculum?" they say "Calvert."
And in the say way I bet there are dozens of hundreds of unschoolers
who start to unschool, but they really don't get it, but they'll say
"I read x and y magazines, and am on a, b and c unschooling
discussions..."
Sandra
curriculum and and put it on a shelf and never took it down? Maybe
people say that kind of thing, too, but it is clearly not justifiable to
say, "We are Calvert Curriculum users," if they don't actually use it.
In the same way, it is really not justifiable to say, "We're
unschoolers," if someone isn't really unschooling.-=-
You're right BUT..... I bet there are hundreds of thousands of
"Calvert Curriculum users" who bought it, got the receipt, put the
books on the shelf, and didn't finish it all, or half, or 2/3, but
they still have the receipts and they still have the books. And so if
someone says "What curriculum?" they say "Calvert."
And in the say way I bet there are dozens of hundreds of unschoolers
who start to unschool, but they really don't get it, but they'll say
"I read x and y magazines, and am on a, b and c unschooling
discussions..."
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
***Would you like some question prompts? I'd be happy to send you some.***
Jill, if you come up with question prompts, could you put them out on the list so others can pick them up and blog too? I deal with similar issues as Pam does! It would be really wonderful to have more ideas and then see how others take them too. I know there was a blog carnival thing on the family run list for a while, I never seemed able to participate, for some reason the ideas were too vague to me. We could do it blog carnival style or just casual, which would be my preference. You are good at coming up with ideas!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jill, if you come up with question prompts, could you put them out on the list so others can pick them up and blog too? I deal with similar issues as Pam does! It would be really wonderful to have more ideas and then see how others take them too. I know there was a blog carnival thing on the family run list for a while, I never seemed able to participate, for some reason the ideas were too vague to me. We could do it blog carnival style or just casual, which would be my preference. You are good at coming up with ideas!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
http://pamsoroosh.wordpress.com/
What about that one, Pam, with the questions?
Now this one?
http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/2009/01/
Why didn't you combine them?
I put the other one on the page of links I keep to your writings, too.
http://sandradodd.com/pamsorooshian
Sandra
What about that one, Pam, with the questions?
Now this one?
http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/2009/01/
Why didn't you combine them?
I put the other one on the page of links I keep to your writings, too.
http://sandradodd.com/pamsorooshian
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
***In the same way, it is really not justifiable to say, "We're
unschoolers," if someone isn't really unschooling.***
And THAT is where we get into the whole "what is unschooling" thing and who gets to define it! I'm pretty clear about what it looks like in my own house, but there are plenty of others that "unschool" and use charter schools or free schools and still call themselves unschoolers, or who put their kids in so many classes they have no down time. I'm left scratching my head a little wondering where they ever got the idea that they were unschoolers. They may be super fantastic parents and the kids may be super fantastic kids and there is nothing wrong with making decisions like that for themselves, but I wonder why they call themselves unschoolers?
I think this is where the idea of "child led" gets really intertwined and mixed up into unschooling, and makes it look like unschooling is something different than what it really is. The child might lead a parent to enroll them into a charter school, but that doesn't mean they are unschooling. If Chamille decided to go to school, she'd no longer be unschooling, she would be schooling by her choice and I'd be perfectly fine with that, well maybe a wee bit cringing, but mostly fine.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschoolers," if someone isn't really unschooling.***
And THAT is where we get into the whole "what is unschooling" thing and who gets to define it! I'm pretty clear about what it looks like in my own house, but there are plenty of others that "unschool" and use charter schools or free schools and still call themselves unschoolers, or who put their kids in so many classes they have no down time. I'm left scratching my head a little wondering where they ever got the idea that they were unschoolers. They may be super fantastic parents and the kids may be super fantastic kids and there is nothing wrong with making decisions like that for themselves, but I wonder why they call themselves unschoolers?
I think this is where the idea of "child led" gets really intertwined and mixed up into unschooling, and makes it look like unschooling is something different than what it really is. The child might lead a parent to enroll them into a charter school, but that doesn't mean they are unschooling. If Chamille decided to go to school, she'd no longer be unschooling, she would be schooling by her choice and I'd be perfectly fine with that, well maybe a wee bit cringing, but mostly fine.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Halldorson
+++
And THAT is where we get into the whole "what is unschooling" thing and who gets to define it! +++
I don't think there will ever be concensus on this. People like to define each other and people like to define themselves.
We are unschoolers. I *get* it. We haven't always unschooled. We are still deschooling in many ways. But there really is no doubt in my mind we are unschoolers.
However, I'm quite positive...there are some who would define us as *eclectic homeschoolers* or *lazy unschoolers* or *academic homeschoolers* or any number of other things.
That is what people do.
I am interested in experiencing more joy and inspiration in my life. I am interested in experiencing more interconnectedness with my kids...more of a partnership...I want to *allow* them to explore the world and interests that are important to them. I want to help their passions, goals, dreams etc come to life...as best I can...in a non-meddling sort of way.
So...I say...we unschool.
I'm sure other disagree.
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And THAT is where we get into the whole "what is unschooling" thing and who gets to define it! +++
I don't think there will ever be concensus on this. People like to define each other and people like to define themselves.
We are unschoolers. I *get* it. We haven't always unschooled. We are still deschooling in many ways. But there really is no doubt in my mind we are unschoolers.
However, I'm quite positive...there are some who would define us as *eclectic homeschoolers* or *lazy unschoolers* or *academic homeschoolers* or any number of other things.
That is what people do.
I am interested in experiencing more joy and inspiration in my life. I am interested in experiencing more interconnectedness with my kids...more of a partnership...I want to *allow* them to explore the world and interests that are important to them. I want to help their passions, goals, dreams etc come to life...as best I can...in a non-meddling sort of way.
So...I say...we unschool.
I'm sure other disagree.
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>Why would they define you in that way? Because you are not
> However, I'm quite positive...there are some who would define us as
> *eclectic homeschoolers* or *lazy unschoolers* or *academic
> homeschoolers* or any number of other things.
unschoolers, yet?
> So...I say...we unschool.And do you unschool, then? Just curious <g>
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Halldorson
+++Why would they define you in that way? Because you are not
unschoolers, yet?+++
We are unschoolers. It's just that people like to define others. And some unschoolers are very dogmatic about unschooling. I'm not really dogmatic about anything.
I see unschooling as a spectrum. I can see how people say...unschooling "except for math"....I may not *agree* with it but I get what they are talking about. I *get* both sides. I see why they call themselves unschoolers and I see why others say that's not unschooling. But I personally don't make anykind of final call on it myself.
:)
I often compare stuff like this to veganism. I am currently vegan. I have been vegan on and off for a good chunk of my adult life. I have only recently (the last three years or so) embraced the label vegan. Otherwise I just called myself vegetarian....and that was because I was intimidated by others...who may not think I was being vegan *enough*
I eat honey. I occasionally will have eggs...ONLY if they are either ours (from our chickens) or I know exactly how the hens are treated and where they are coming from. We are talking maybe a dozen eggs a year if that.
Now, there are people that would scream...YOU AREN'T VEGAN!! And get quite angry about it.
Kind of how I used to feel about people who call themselves vegetarian but still occasionally eats fish. It used to drive me nuts! Because well...fish isn't a vegetable, LOL.
But then I decided to take a long hard look at things. What is it I wanted? I wanted to reduce suffering. I wanted people to eat more with compassion. Well, if someone is vegetarian all year but aises their own turkeys to eat on Thanksgiving and Christmas does it really matter what they call themselves? They are way closer to vegetarian than anything else.
AND they are ultimately reducing suffering...something I can totally get on board with.
So, I guess I don't see why it's not possible to look at unschooling in the same manner. I don't agree with the all or nothing approach....but I do *understand* it. :)
+++And do you unschool, then? Just curious <g>+++
Yes and I would say we strongly lean toward the whole-life/radical unschooling end of the spectrum.
:)
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschoolers, yet?+++
We are unschoolers. It's just that people like to define others. And some unschoolers are very dogmatic about unschooling. I'm not really dogmatic about anything.
I see unschooling as a spectrum. I can see how people say...unschooling "except for math"....I may not *agree* with it but I get what they are talking about. I *get* both sides. I see why they call themselves unschoolers and I see why others say that's not unschooling. But I personally don't make anykind of final call on it myself.
:)
I often compare stuff like this to veganism. I am currently vegan. I have been vegan on and off for a good chunk of my adult life. I have only recently (the last three years or so) embraced the label vegan. Otherwise I just called myself vegetarian....and that was because I was intimidated by others...who may not think I was being vegan *enough*
I eat honey. I occasionally will have eggs...ONLY if they are either ours (from our chickens) or I know exactly how the hens are treated and where they are coming from. We are talking maybe a dozen eggs a year if that.
Now, there are people that would scream...YOU AREN'T VEGAN!! And get quite angry about it.
Kind of how I used to feel about people who call themselves vegetarian but still occasionally eats fish. It used to drive me nuts! Because well...fish isn't a vegetable, LOL.
But then I decided to take a long hard look at things. What is it I wanted? I wanted to reduce suffering. I wanted people to eat more with compassion. Well, if someone is vegetarian all year but aises their own turkeys to eat on Thanksgiving and Christmas does it really matter what they call themselves? They are way closer to vegetarian than anything else.
AND they are ultimately reducing suffering...something I can totally get on board with.
So, I guess I don't see why it's not possible to look at unschooling in the same manner. I don't agree with the all or nothing approach....but I do *understand* it. :)
+++And do you unschool, then? Just curious <g>+++
Yes and I would say we strongly lean toward the whole-life/radical unschooling end of the spectrum.
:)
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/7/2010 11:42 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
it. I'm eliminating my mac account - because I can't even figure out how
to edit it anymore. So I thought I'd move stuff on it over to a new one
called LearningHappens. But that was a year ago and now I'm JUST
getting back to it. I think I'll also go back to the questions one -
and do more of that.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> http://pamsoroosh.wordpress.com/ <http://pamsoroosh.wordpress.com/>I used to have a little website on my mac account that had math stuff on
>
> What about that one, Pam, with the questions?
>
> Now this one?
> http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/2009/01/
> <http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/2009/01/>
it. I'm eliminating my mac account - because I can't even figure out how
to edit it anymore. So I thought I'd move stuff on it over to a new one
called LearningHappens. But that was a year ago and now I'm JUST
getting back to it. I think I'll also go back to the questions one -
and do more of that.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/7/2010 12:35 PM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
If you call yourself an unschooler, but you assign lessons, reading,
give tests, or grades, then I'd probably think you don't get what
unschooling is (sorry - couldn't resist). I wouldn't bother to tell you
what I think unless there was a really good reason, though.I have a
friend who used Calvert Curriculum - graded her kids assignment with
letter grades, made her son a transcript that included Cs and Bs, not
all As. She sometimes referred to them unschooling - I just smiled and
let it slide. On the other hand, if she was going around speaking at
conference and talking about unschooling and making herself a public
figure, I would probably speak up to say that I didn't think what she
was promoting was unschooling.
-pam
> I don't think there will ever be concensus on this. People like toI don't generally define other people - I might define terminology, though.
> define each other and people like to define themselves.
If you call yourself an unschooler, but you assign lessons, reading,
give tests, or grades, then I'd probably think you don't get what
unschooling is (sorry - couldn't resist). I wouldn't bother to tell you
what I think unless there was a really good reason, though.I have a
friend who used Calvert Curriculum - graded her kids assignment with
letter grades, made her son a transcript that included Cs and Bs, not
all As. She sometimes referred to them unschooling - I just smiled and
let it slide. On the other hand, if she was going around speaking at
conference and talking about unschooling and making herself a public
figure, I would probably speak up to say that I didn't think what she
was promoting was unschooling.
-pam
Kelly Halldorson
I included the whole of what you wrote Pam. I meant I agree with it all except this.
+++I don't generally define other people - I might define terminology, though.+++
When you define terminology that people assign to themselves...then you are defining people...whether you mean to or not.
If someone says "I'm an unschooler." And because of how you see them behave or hear them talk you say "That is not unschooling" then you are defining them as "not unschoolers"
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
+++I don't generally define other people - I might define terminology, though.+++
When you define terminology that people assign to themselves...then you are defining people...whether you mean to or not.
If someone says "I'm an unschooler." And because of how you see them behave or hear them talk you say "That is not unschooling" then you are defining them as "not unschoolers"
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 7, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
with a label that applies to a concept, when the concept gets
clarified, it's going to affect the label.
If someone stands next to a puddle on a busy road, they're going to
get splashed. If someone doesn't like getting splashed they shouldn't
stand next to puddles. If someone doesn't like being defined, they
shouldn't label themselves with words that other people use.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> When you define terminology that people assign to themselves...thenI'd say it's a side effect. If people *choose* to define themselves
> you are defining people...whether you mean to or not.
with a label that applies to a concept, when the concept gets
clarified, it's going to affect the label.
If someone stands next to a puddle on a busy road, they're going to
get splashed. If someone doesn't like getting splashed they shouldn't
stand next to puddles. If someone doesn't like being defined, they
shouldn't label themselves with words that other people use.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Machaj
-=-I don't think there will ever be concensus on this. People like to
define each other and people like to define themselves.-=-
Yes, this is part of how humans sort themselves into groups and find
what is like and unlike each other.
-=-We are unschoolers. I *get* it. We haven't always unschooled. We
are still deschooling in many ways. But there really is no doubt in
my mind we are unschoolers.
However, I'm quite positive...there are some who would define us as
*eclectic homeschoolers* or *lazy unschoolers* or *academic
homeschoolers* or any number of other things.
That is what people do. -=-
If what you mean is that people look at what someone says and
compares it against what they do and make discernments about if they
match, then yes, I agree. But I dont think that anyone is about to
call Sandra Dodd or Pam Sorooshian or Joyce Fetteroll eclectic
homeschoolers, or lazy unschoolers or academic unschoolers. What they
write about and what they live and how they have raised their
children are the same. There is no "do what I say, not as I do",
there is no disconnect between what they say and how they live.
No one could say that they were something they were not. And if
someone did say something they werent, they'd be able to describe,
clearly, why they were not, and they wouldnt be like, oh, well,
whatever, 'words, schwords'. Because thinking and writing clearly and
accurately and truthfully DOES matter. And writing to a list about
radically unschooling about why its ok and not really that much
different and no big deal to be lazy or eclectic or unschool
academically just doesn't make much sense to me at all.
Nancy
*****
blogging at:
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
define each other and people like to define themselves.-=-
Yes, this is part of how humans sort themselves into groups and find
what is like and unlike each other.
-=-We are unschoolers. I *get* it. We haven't always unschooled. We
are still deschooling in many ways. But there really is no doubt in
my mind we are unschoolers.
However, I'm quite positive...there are some who would define us as
*eclectic homeschoolers* or *lazy unschoolers* or *academic
homeschoolers* or any number of other things.
That is what people do. -=-
If what you mean is that people look at what someone says and
compares it against what they do and make discernments about if they
match, then yes, I agree. But I dont think that anyone is about to
call Sandra Dodd or Pam Sorooshian or Joyce Fetteroll eclectic
homeschoolers, or lazy unschoolers or academic unschoolers. What they
write about and what they live and how they have raised their
children are the same. There is no "do what I say, not as I do",
there is no disconnect between what they say and how they live.
No one could say that they were something they were not. And if
someone did say something they werent, they'd be able to describe,
clearly, why they were not, and they wouldnt be like, oh, well,
whatever, 'words, schwords'. Because thinking and writing clearly and
accurately and truthfully DOES matter. And writing to a list about
radically unschooling about why its ok and not really that much
different and no big deal to be lazy or eclectic or unschool
academically just doesn't make much sense to me at all.
Nancy
*****
blogging at:
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I've always resisted labels for this very reason, Joyce. When I was a kid,
the word "lazy" was often applied to me but I eventually realized that
"lazy" meant something different from what I was, the definition was mostly
"being like a child" which is what I was! It wasn't as personal as I once
thought. "Lazy" was/maybe still is a concept that was intended to push kids
through to adulthood by skipping the inconvenience of growth. It's one of
the less happy examples of what happens when we "stand next to puddles" or
identify with labels. But even a good connotation put on a label can have an
unflattering effect on the people wearing said label.
~Katherine
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
wrote:
the word "lazy" was often applied to me but I eventually realized that
"lazy" meant something different from what I was, the definition was mostly
"being like a child" which is what I was! It wasn't as personal as I once
thought. "Lazy" was/maybe still is a concept that was intended to push kids
through to adulthood by skipping the inconvenience of growth. It's one of
the less happy examples of what happens when we "stand next to puddles" or
identify with labels. But even a good connotation put on a label can have an
unflattering effect on the people wearing said label.
~Katherine
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> On Mar 7, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
>
> > When you define terminology that people assign to themselves...then
> > you are defining people...whether you mean to or not.
>
> I'd say it's a side effect. If people *choose* to define themselves
> with a label that applies to a concept, when the concept gets
> clarified, it's going to affect the label.
>
> If someone stands next to a puddle on a busy road, they're going to
> get splashed. If someone doesn't like getting splashed they shouldn't
> stand next to puddles. If someone doesn't like being defined, they
> shouldn't label themselves with words that other people use.
>
> Joyce
Jill Parmer
On Mar 7, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
Grandin; she designs them to reduce the suffering of the cows, to
keep them calm and not fearful.
So, are you saying that a person, who calls herself a vegetarian and
eats turkey once a year, but doesn't raise her own turkeys, is not as
close to vegetarianism as someone who also only eats turkey once a
year, but does raise there own turkeys?
When my mom called herself a vegetarian as she was putting turkey
meat into her mouth, all these thoughts ran through my head: why the
lying, confusion, delusion?
I'm getting a sense from your posts that you're trying to fit
everyone into all these little niches defined by you. And I'm
getting confused about the/any point you are making, by vegans eating
honey and eggs, but only if from certain chickens, and vegetarians
eating meat, and unschoolers unschooling except for math,...
Ah, maybe the solution is to stop running around classifying
yourself, and learn about what you want to know more about whether
that be eating vegan or unschooling.
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But then I decided to take a long hard look at things. What is it IMaybe you could eat beef from slaughter houses designed by Temple
> wanted? I wanted to reduce suffering. I wanted people to eat more
> with compassion. Well, if someone is vegetarian all year but aises
> their own turkeys to eat on Thanksgiving and Christmas does it
> really matter what they call themselves? They are way closer to
> vegetarian than anything else.
Grandin; she designs them to reduce the suffering of the cows, to
keep them calm and not fearful.
So, are you saying that a person, who calls herself a vegetarian and
eats turkey once a year, but doesn't raise her own turkeys, is not as
close to vegetarianism as someone who also only eats turkey once a
year, but does raise there own turkeys?
When my mom called herself a vegetarian as she was putting turkey
meat into her mouth, all these thoughts ran through my head: why the
lying, confusion, delusion?
I'm getting a sense from your posts that you're trying to fit
everyone into all these little niches defined by you. And I'm
getting confused about the/any point you are making, by vegans eating
honey and eggs, but only if from certain chickens, and vegetarians
eating meat, and unschoolers unschooling except for math,...
Ah, maybe the solution is to stop running around classifying
yourself, and learn about what you want to know more about whether
that be eating vegan or unschooling.
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-If someone says "I'm an unschooler." And because of how you see
them behave or hear them talk you say "That is not unschooling" then
you are defining them as "not unschoolers"-=-
The purpose of this list isn't to certify anyone an unschooler or
not. It's for the discussion of what makes unschooling work better,
to help those who DO want to understand unschooling at its deepest
levels.
There are people who like to think unschooling doesn't have any deep
levels. There are others who have not compromised their unschooling,
who haven't gone back and forth from a curriculum to unschooling, from
school to school at home, and "back to unschooling."
There are people here who know people who HAVE done all of the above,
and some could easily be seen as "not unschoolers," and "never really
got unschooling."
Some people who take real money to speak at conferences about
unschooling have kids who went to school. If they "got it" (enough to
charge hundreds or a thousand dollars to speak), why couldn't they do
it? (If they didn't get it or dedicate themselves to it, why be
speaking at conferences? Oh right.... money.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
them behave or hear them talk you say "That is not unschooling" then
you are defining them as "not unschoolers"-=-
The purpose of this list isn't to certify anyone an unschooler or
not. It's for the discussion of what makes unschooling work better,
to help those who DO want to understand unschooling at its deepest
levels.
There are people who like to think unschooling doesn't have any deep
levels. There are others who have not compromised their unschooling,
who haven't gone back and forth from a curriculum to unschooling, from
school to school at home, and "back to unschooling."
There are people here who know people who HAVE done all of the above,
and some could easily be seen as "not unschoolers," and "never really
got unschooling."
Some people who take real money to speak at conferences about
unschooling have kids who went to school. If they "got it" (enough to
charge hundreds or a thousand dollars to speak), why couldn't they do
it? (If they didn't get it or dedicate themselves to it, why be
speaking at conferences? Oh right.... money.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I thought similar things when I read that. David was a vegetarian for a long time before he and I got together. It was important to him, his vegetarianism. I've never been a vegetarian. I'm an omnivore. Although the omni- was fairly limited for a long time. And David joined me, more and more, in my meat eating. Not out of pressure from me, but because he wanted to, for whatever reason. But he still called himself a vegetarian. One day he realised he was holding on to a label because it was an important part of how he defined himself. But it didn't fit anymore. The fact that he eats meat, occasionally, doesn't make him a good or a bad person, unless you are a chicken. He just likes to eat meat sometimes.
I suppose being labelled a vegetarian is a kind of a granfalloon, "a proud and meaningless association of human beings." The assertion of being a vegetarian gave him something to hitch onto. However, coming onto a list that is about vegetarianism and saying that those folks who eat meat at holidays or who eat meat only once a month can be vegetarians too, well that feels strange. It's like coming on to a list that is about unschooling and saying that people can label themselves unschoolers even if it is just about intent and that should be fine. I met a woman who told me that she was an unschooler because she let her children switch from a subject or stay on a topic for longer or shorter periods of time than the curriculum she followed advised. That's a big stretch. I didn't argue, I didn't burst her granfalloon, but I recognized that she wasn't likely to be someone who I'd look to for advise on how to unschool better.
Schuyler
________________________________
When my mom called herself a vegetarian as she was putting turkey
meat into her mouth, all these thoughts ran through my head: why the
lying, confusion, delusion?
I'm getting a sense from your posts that you're trying to fit
everyone into all these little niches defined by you. And I'm
getting confused about the/any point you are making, by vegans eating
honey and eggs, but only if from certain chickens, and vegetarians
eating meat, and unschoolersunschooling except for math,...
Ah, maybe the solution is to stop running around classifying
yourself, and learn about what you want to know more about whether
that be eating vegan or unschooling.
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I suppose being labelled a vegetarian is a kind of a granfalloon, "a proud and meaningless association of human beings." The assertion of being a vegetarian gave him something to hitch onto. However, coming onto a list that is about vegetarianism and saying that those folks who eat meat at holidays or who eat meat only once a month can be vegetarians too, well that feels strange. It's like coming on to a list that is about unschooling and saying that people can label themselves unschoolers even if it is just about intent and that should be fine. I met a woman who told me that she was an unschooler because she let her children switch from a subject or stay on a topic for longer or shorter periods of time than the curriculum she followed advised. That's a big stretch. I didn't argue, I didn't burst her granfalloon, but I recognized that she wasn't likely to be someone who I'd look to for advise on how to unschool better.
Schuyler
________________________________
When my mom called herself a vegetarian as she was putting turkey
meat into her mouth, all these thoughts ran through my head: why the
lying, confusion, delusion?
I'm getting a sense from your posts that you're trying to fit
everyone into all these little niches defined by you. And I'm
getting confused about the/any point you are making, by vegans eating
honey and eggs, but only if from certain chickens, and vegetarians
eating meat, and unschoolersunschooling except for math,...
Ah, maybe the solution is to stop running around classifying
yourself, and learn about what you want to know more about whether
that be eating vegan or unschooling.
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Machaj
-=-I often compare stuff like this to veganism. I am currently vegan.
I have been vegan on and off for a good chunk of my adult life. I
have only recently (the last three years or so) embraced the label
vegan. Otherwise I just called myself vegetarian....and that was
because I was intimidated by others...who may not think I was being
vegan *enough*
I eat honey. I occasionally will have eggs...ONLY if they are either
ours (from our chickens) or I know exactly how the hens are treated
and where they are coming from. We are talking maybe a dozen eggs a
year if that.
Now, there are people that would scream...YOU AREN'T VEGAN!! And get
quite angry about it.
Kind of how I used to feel about people who call themselves
vegetarian but still occasionally eats fish. It used to drive me
nuts! Because well...fish isn't a vegetable, LOL. -=-
What I dont understand is why you feel like you need to embrace the
label of Vegan, especially if you are not actually vegan. Vegan is
pretty specific, it means no animal products. It doesnt mean, no
animal products except twice a year or whenever you want. If you use
animal products or eat animal products, of what use is it call
yourself Vegan? Who cares?
-=-Well, if someone is vegetarian all year but aises their own
turkeys to eat on Thanksgiving and Christmas does it really matter
what they call themselves? They are way closer to vegetarian than
anything else.-=-
I suppose it doesn't matter what anyone calls themselves, especially
if they dont care about being understood, trusted or believed. But I
think its actually useful and important to use accurate and truthful
words to communicate. That is why there are so many words to choose
from. You dont have to say Vegan if you are not Vegan.
I mean, I could tell myself and my husband that I am Faithful, and I
am pretty sure that he would understand that to mean that I wasnt
involved in a sexual relationship with another person. So, if he
found out that every year at my office party, I fooled around with a
coworker, I dont think it would fly for me to say, well, "I'm way
closer to Faithful than anything else".
However,I suppose since, in the case of Unschooling, no one is
committing or promising anything to anyone (Like being faithful to a
spouse). So, I guess if you are talking to your neighbors and
friends you can (anyone can) say whatever you want about what you do.
As Robyn points out, no Unschooling Police are going to come arrest
you for false claims. No goon squad is coming to beat you up for
saying you unschool if you dont or if you do unschool in the mornings
or except for math or if you unschool in the summer while your kids
are on school vacation.
But like if Pam said, you were at an Unschooling conference or if you
were writing advice to a radical Unschooling list, and you are
advocating anything except real, actual unschooling, it does matter
what you say and the words you choose.
Nancy
*****
blogging at:
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have been vegan on and off for a good chunk of my adult life. I
have only recently (the last three years or so) embraced the label
vegan. Otherwise I just called myself vegetarian....and that was
because I was intimidated by others...who may not think I was being
vegan *enough*
I eat honey. I occasionally will have eggs...ONLY if they are either
ours (from our chickens) or I know exactly how the hens are treated
and where they are coming from. We are talking maybe a dozen eggs a
year if that.
Now, there are people that would scream...YOU AREN'T VEGAN!! And get
quite angry about it.
Kind of how I used to feel about people who call themselves
vegetarian but still occasionally eats fish. It used to drive me
nuts! Because well...fish isn't a vegetable, LOL. -=-
What I dont understand is why you feel like you need to embrace the
label of Vegan, especially if you are not actually vegan. Vegan is
pretty specific, it means no animal products. It doesnt mean, no
animal products except twice a year or whenever you want. If you use
animal products or eat animal products, of what use is it call
yourself Vegan? Who cares?
-=-Well, if someone is vegetarian all year but aises their own
turkeys to eat on Thanksgiving and Christmas does it really matter
what they call themselves? They are way closer to vegetarian than
anything else.-=-
I suppose it doesn't matter what anyone calls themselves, especially
if they dont care about being understood, trusted or believed. But I
think its actually useful and important to use accurate and truthful
words to communicate. That is why there are so many words to choose
from. You dont have to say Vegan if you are not Vegan.
I mean, I could tell myself and my husband that I am Faithful, and I
am pretty sure that he would understand that to mean that I wasnt
involved in a sexual relationship with another person. So, if he
found out that every year at my office party, I fooled around with a
coworker, I dont think it would fly for me to say, well, "I'm way
closer to Faithful than anything else".
However,I suppose since, in the case of Unschooling, no one is
committing or promising anything to anyone (Like being faithful to a
spouse). So, I guess if you are talking to your neighbors and
friends you can (anyone can) say whatever you want about what you do.
As Robyn points out, no Unschooling Police are going to come arrest
you for false claims. No goon squad is coming to beat you up for
saying you unschool if you dont or if you do unschool in the mornings
or except for math or if you unschool in the summer while your kids
are on school vacation.
But like if Pam said, you were at an Unschooling conference or if you
were writing advice to a radical Unschooling list, and you are
advocating anything except real, actual unschooling, it does matter
what you say and the words you choose.
Nancy
*****
blogging at:
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I mean, I could tell myself and my husband that I am Faithful, and I
am pretty sure that he would understand that to mean that I wasnt
involved in a sexual relationship with another person. So, if he
found out that every year at my office party, I fooled around with a
coworker, I dont think it would fly for me to say, well, "I'm way
closer to Faithful than anything else".-=-
But Nancy, look at the money you saved not buying that co-worker a
gift! It's Christmas.
Honestly, the example above made me laugh out loud. No one's around
to hear me, though.
Holly doesn't eat as much meat as others in the family. She's not
vegetarian, but we often make a meatless version of whatever we're
doing, or at least save out some noodles before mixing meat into the
noodles or pasta. We say "She doesn't like meat much" when people ask
about her dietary preferences. I much prefer chicken and fish to
beef, and always have. Lots of people will draw the line at beef.
But sometimes I eat a hamburger with gusto. And in the past few
months I've been drawn to pork in various forms. Kind of a craving.
That doesn't change the fact that I prefer chicken to beef. <g>
Some people are this way with unschooling. They just kinda are mostly
unschoolers, but they do a math curriculum.
That's fine with me. I just want them to do it somewhere besides on
this list!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
am pretty sure that he would understand that to mean that I wasnt
involved in a sexual relationship with another person. So, if he
found out that every year at my office party, I fooled around with a
coworker, I dont think it would fly for me to say, well, "I'm way
closer to Faithful than anything else".-=-
But Nancy, look at the money you saved not buying that co-worker a
gift! It's Christmas.
Honestly, the example above made me laugh out loud. No one's around
to hear me, though.
Holly doesn't eat as much meat as others in the family. She's not
vegetarian, but we often make a meatless version of whatever we're
doing, or at least save out some noodles before mixing meat into the
noodles or pasta. We say "She doesn't like meat much" when people ask
about her dietary preferences. I much prefer chicken and fish to
beef, and always have. Lots of people will draw the line at beef.
But sometimes I eat a hamburger with gusto. And in the past few
months I've been drawn to pork in various forms. Kind of a craving.
That doesn't change the fact that I prefer chicken to beef. <g>
Some people are this way with unschooling. They just kinda are mostly
unschoolers, but they do a math curriculum.
That's fine with me. I just want them to do it somewhere besides on
this list!
Sandra
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thecugals
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
--Some people who take real money to speak at conferences about
unschooling have kids who went to school. If they "got it" (enough to
charge hundreds or a thousand dollars to speak), why couldn't they do
it? (If they didn't get it or dedicate themselves to it, why be
speaking at conferences? Oh right.... money.)--
There was a lady who spoke at an unschooling conference (I don't think she got a big fee--I hope not) about her journey from Waldorf to unschooling. Later on we were talking in private and she said she wished there were a school she could put her kids in just part-time. I was horrified.
Beth C.
thecugals
I should clarify... I was not horrified that someone thought it would be a good idea to have their kids in school part-time; I was horrified that she called herself an unschooler. I had just decided to start unschooling my kiddos, I had done a lot of reading, was full of enthusiasm and trying to gain more confidence... and then this woman said that to me.
Beth C.
Beth C.
Kelly Halldorson
+++Some people are this way with unschooling. They just kinda are mostly
unschoolers, but they do a math curriculum.
That's fine with me. I just want them to do it somewhere besides on
this list!++
:) Sounds completely reasonable to me. I hope you don't get the impression I see anything *wrong* with the way you run the list...or even defining people.
My point was really that *I* don't like to define people and I do not alway think it is productive. That's just my feeling on it.
Kelly
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unschoolers, but they do a math curriculum.
That's fine with me. I just want them to do it somewhere besides on
this list!++
:) Sounds completely reasonable to me. I hope you don't get the impression I see anything *wrong* with the way you run the list...or even defining people.
My point was really that *I* don't like to define people and I do not alway think it is productive. That's just my feeling on it.
Kelly
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Kelly Halldorson
Jill wrote:
+++I'm getting a sense from your posts that you're trying to fit
everyone into all these little niches defined by you. +++
Um...no exactly the opposite. I'm not trying to fit anyone into anything. I'm saying...I don't care what people call themselves...it doesn't offend me.
+++Ah, maybe the solution is to stop running around classifying
yourself, and learn about what you want to know more about whether
that be eating vegan or unschooling.+++
Very off the mark. I am and have always a strong sense of self. I know who and what I am. Sometimes those things shift as I grow...but I'm quite comfortable in my own skin. Labels or no labels.
Peace,
Kelly
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+++I'm getting a sense from your posts that you're trying to fit
everyone into all these little niches defined by you. +++
Um...no exactly the opposite. I'm not trying to fit anyone into anything. I'm saying...I don't care what people call themselves...it doesn't offend me.
+++Ah, maybe the solution is to stop running around classifying
yourself, and learn about what you want to know more about whether
that be eating vegan or unschooling.+++
Very off the mark. I am and have always a strong sense of self. I know who and what I am. Sometimes those things shift as I grow...but I'm quite comfortable in my own skin. Labels or no labels.
Peace,
Kelly
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Katy Jennings
-==-But he still called himself a vegetarian. One day he realised he was
holding on to a label because it was an important part of how he
defined himself. But it didn't fit anymore.-==-
I was like that. I decided to stop eating meat 14 years ago after doing research in college about the food industry. I was kind of proud to call myself a vegetarian. Unschooling vegetarian single mom. <g>
But there were times that money was really tight, really really tight. Sometimes someone would fix Richard and I a meal, usually with meat. I ate those meals thankfully and happily. When my 90 year old grandmother invited us to her home in Illinois for a weekend, she made us meat. I ate that thankfully and happily.
There were a few times on lists when I would write that I considered myself a vegetarian but that I ate meat when someone else cooked for me, and others would really jump on that. I felt that they were really mean to me. <g> One person wrote that even if I was going to someone's house for dinner, I could bring a dish so that Richard and I could still eat veggie. She didn't get it <G>. We were going to others houses because we couldn't, at the time, afford to make that dish!
I guess it was when reading one of the many discussions about not using labels that I realized that I was hanging on to that label. I was a little surprised, I don't tend to like labels, but I was hanging on to a label about myself.
So, now I say I don't tend to eat meat. Richard does eat meat, and that is ok. He is very mindful about his food choices, much more than I am.
Katy
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holding on to a label because it was an important part of how he
defined himself. But it didn't fit anymore.-==-
I was like that. I decided to stop eating meat 14 years ago after doing research in college about the food industry. I was kind of proud to call myself a vegetarian. Unschooling vegetarian single mom. <g>
But there were times that money was really tight, really really tight. Sometimes someone would fix Richard and I a meal, usually with meat. I ate those meals thankfully and happily. When my 90 year old grandmother invited us to her home in Illinois for a weekend, she made us meat. I ate that thankfully and happily.
There were a few times on lists when I would write that I considered myself a vegetarian but that I ate meat when someone else cooked for me, and others would really jump on that. I felt that they were really mean to me. <g> One person wrote that even if I was going to someone's house for dinner, I could bring a dish so that Richard and I could still eat veggie. She didn't get it <G>. We were going to others houses because we couldn't, at the time, afford to make that dish!
I guess it was when reading one of the many discussions about not using labels that I realized that I was hanging on to that label. I was a little surprised, I don't tend to like labels, but I was hanging on to a label about myself.
So, now I say I don't tend to eat meat. Richard does eat meat, and that is ok. He is very mindful about his food choices, much more than I am.
Katy
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Um...no exactly the opposite. I'm not trying to fit anyone into
anything. I'm saying...I don't care what people call themselves...it
doesn't offend me.-=-
That doesn't help anyone understand unschooling better.
-=-Very off the mark. I am and have always a strong sense of self. I
know who and what I am. Sometimes those things shift as I grow...but
I'm quite comfortable in my own skin. Labels or no labels. -=-
If information wasn't wanted, it would have been better not to post.
If the responses weren't helpful, just leave them.
I let this post through so I wouldn't return three in a row. Please
keep to what is useful for people reading about unschooling.
Sandra
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anything. I'm saying...I don't care what people call themselves...it
doesn't offend me.-=-
That doesn't help anyone understand unschooling better.
-=-Very off the mark. I am and have always a strong sense of self. I
know who and what I am. Sometimes those things shift as I grow...but
I'm quite comfortable in my own skin. Labels or no labels. -=-
If information wasn't wanted, it would have been better not to post.
If the responses weren't helpful, just leave them.
I let this post through so I wouldn't return three in a row. Please
keep to what is useful for people reading about unschooling.
Sandra
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