question on resources for adults
Sandra Dodd
I'm vague on these things and am hoping people here will have more
knowledge.
I got an e-mail:
__________
Hello, Sandra. I am so happy to have found your site and your
abundance of ideas.
I am a middle-aged man, did not enjoy my public school experience from
nursery-school onward, and was a poor student through high school.
After years of occupational floundering, I am now a college sophomore
at a state university and doing very well academically, but again
feeling disillusioned by conventional, institutional curriculum and
faculty which seem mostly oriented toward enforcing/rewarding rote
procedure.
While I genuinely value this opportunity and where it may lead, it
ultimately feels lacking in actual education (no matter how heavy the
workload).
I understand this is not exactly what you address, but do you have any
"un-schooling" advice for adults, how to make the most of such a
context, or constructive alternatives to augment this experience with
either parallel studies or unfamiliar perspectives? Are there online
communities which address these interests and concerns?
Thank you for your time, and for your site.
__________
My response:
__________
I don't think there are yet, but probably will be someday. I think
there are some colleges that will give credit for outside experiences,
but i really don't know which ones they are. I've heard stories over
the years.
-=-I understand this is not exactly what you address, but do you have
any "un-schooling" advice for adults, how to make the most of such a
context, or constructive alternatives to augment this experience with
either parallel studies or unfamiliar perspectives?-=-
I'll ask some people and get back with you, but in general, as to the
things I deal with, I would recommend that you look at changing your
own perspective about what is "learning" and what is not. When the
world is divided into "actual education" (your phrase) and other
things, it's a false dichotomy. The more you think about learning and
the less you think about "education" (or teaching, or school, or
classes) the more you'll see learning everywhere.
Until I get back with you, maybe look at these things:\
http://sandradodd.com/teaching
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Sandra
__________
What else should I tell him? I really don't know.
Sandra
knowledge.
I got an e-mail:
__________
Hello, Sandra. I am so happy to have found your site and your
abundance of ideas.
I am a middle-aged man, did not enjoy my public school experience from
nursery-school onward, and was a poor student through high school.
After years of occupational floundering, I am now a college sophomore
at a state university and doing very well academically, but again
feeling disillusioned by conventional, institutional curriculum and
faculty which seem mostly oriented toward enforcing/rewarding rote
procedure.
While I genuinely value this opportunity and where it may lead, it
ultimately feels lacking in actual education (no matter how heavy the
workload).
I understand this is not exactly what you address, but do you have any
"un-schooling" advice for adults, how to make the most of such a
context, or constructive alternatives to augment this experience with
either parallel studies or unfamiliar perspectives? Are there online
communities which address these interests and concerns?
Thank you for your time, and for your site.
__________
My response:
__________
I don't think there are yet, but probably will be someday. I think
there are some colleges that will give credit for outside experiences,
but i really don't know which ones they are. I've heard stories over
the years.
-=-I understand this is not exactly what you address, but do you have
any "un-schooling" advice for adults, how to make the most of such a
context, or constructive alternatives to augment this experience with
either parallel studies or unfamiliar perspectives?-=-
I'll ask some people and get back with you, but in general, as to the
things I deal with, I would recommend that you look at changing your
own perspective about what is "learning" and what is not. When the
world is divided into "actual education" (your phrase) and other
things, it's a false dichotomy. The more you think about learning and
the less you think about "education" (or teaching, or school, or
classes) the more you'll see learning everywhere.
Until I get back with you, maybe look at these things:\
http://sandradodd.com/teaching
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Sandra
__________
What else should I tell him? I really don't know.
Sandra
Dellos Family
If he is studying something he loves, it should come easy (IMHO). For example, my passion is art when I'm not HSing or attending to family stuff. I read art blogs, I buy mixed media books and magazines to learn more and inspire me, I attend one weekend-long workshop per year, I create whenever I can . . . I add it into my life in little ways, wherever I can.
I think it would be a great value for him to add to his own learning. Subscribe to magazines that pertain to what he is learning in college, find local sites/attractions/museum to see, research online for blogs or studies, create a journal/scrapbook/blog of his adventure, make appointments with people that do what he's in college for and talk with them about it, etc.
Sometimes, for me to get my mind to seek deeper into creative ideas I need to watch a great movie or listen to music. I have a playlist called "mom's art tunes" because they are the songs that get me to immediately go to my creative place and forget about everything else.
It reminds me of my 12 yr old ds that suddenly said, "I want to learn more about WWII". He has already studied this and knows a great deal, but he's drawn to it and wants more. So I asked him how and he stated books, military channel, and museums. So we are getting those things gathered and lined up and are excited about it.
Just my thoughts - I applaud him for finding your site and seeking out the answer - it's probably more obvious than he thinks!
Diana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think it would be a great value for him to add to his own learning. Subscribe to magazines that pertain to what he is learning in college, find local sites/attractions/museum to see, research online for blogs or studies, create a journal/scrapbook/blog of his adventure, make appointments with people that do what he's in college for and talk with them about it, etc.
Sometimes, for me to get my mind to seek deeper into creative ideas I need to watch a great movie or listen to music. I have a playlist called "mom's art tunes" because they are the songs that get me to immediately go to my creative place and forget about everything else.
It reminds me of my 12 yr old ds that suddenly said, "I want to learn more about WWII". He has already studied this and knows a great deal, but he's drawn to it and wants more. So I asked him how and he stated books, military channel, and museums. So we are getting those things gathered and lined up and are excited about it.
Just my thoughts - I applaud him for finding your site and seeking out the answer - it's probably more obvious than he thinks!
Diana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lang
Hi Sandra, I don't post very often, but this man's question begged a response from me. He could try augmenting with internships, fellowships, teaching intro courses himself, and my all time favorite, volunteer work. I'm not talking about helping to dish out mashed potatoes at a homeless shelter on Christmas (thought great, it is a one time thing). Volunteering your time can be a great way to be exposed to things you would normally not see, feel, hear...opportunities to realize that learning happens all the time? I think so.
I think that in conventional learning institutions it can be easy to equate learning with classes, books--reading and listening only. I think that actively DOING can awake other parts of the brain/body.
After doing these new and interesting things one can ponder at the end of the day/week and realize how much one has "learned".
experience = learning
liza in los angeles
dd, poppy, 4
ds, shepard, 16 mo's
I think that in conventional learning institutions it can be easy to equate learning with classes, books--reading and listening only. I think that actively DOING can awake other parts of the brain/body.
After doing these new and interesting things one can ponder at the end of the day/week and realize how much one has "learned".
experience = learning
liza in los angeles
dd, poppy, 4
ds, shepard, 16 mo's
Jenny Cyphers
***While I genuinely value this opportunity and where it may lead, it
ultimately feels lacking in actual education (no matter how heavy the
workload).***
When I was in college, I was having a conversation with the person who had been the head of the dance department. The university I attended hired a new person to head the fine and performing arts, with the intent to eliminate the dance program easily and smoothly without a community outcry. He was very good at it, and the students didn't catch wind of it happening until right before it happened. They gave all the students that were trying to earn a degree, 1 yr after the elimination of the dance program to finish their degree. Everyone had half a year to finish the dance classes before they were gone and another year to finish all the other requirements.
There was no way I could do all the other requirements, because up until that point I had been taking tons of geology and anthropology classes alongside my dance classes. None of them applied to my degree. A dance degree at the time, required sociology and biology for the sciences and social sciences.
So, back to where I started here... I was talking with the person that had headed the dance department, sometime during the year following the demise of the program and sort of bemoaning the fact that I hadn't taken any of the required courses for my degree, mostly because they didn't interest me, so I had been putting them off. I made a meeting with the new dean (that was a long and complicated affair) and asked him to let me have credit for my social science and sciences with my geology and anthropology. He didn't want to deal with me or any other dance student so he gave me the credit and away I went. I relayed all this to my former instructor/advisor and she said to me, that we, as people, only really truly learn something when we are ready to learn it and that it was just as well that I didn't take those classes because I wouldn't have gotten from them what I really needed since the interest wasn't there, but that one day it may become
relevant and then I could learn it on my own.
It was one of those moments in your life when you've suddenly been enlightened by something that changes everything for you from that moment forward.
I understand why biology and sociology were required courses. What surprised and delighted me was how much anthropology applied to dance. None of the anthropology professors had encountered a dance student in their classes wanting to study dance through anthropology, yet they knew of some well known anthropologists who had done just that and were excited to share it with me. It's too bad universities couldn't be more flexible in this manner.
The other thing I learned through dealing with all that, is that, if as a student, you want something from the university and it seems as if it isn't happening and that doors close and there is layer and layer of beauracracy, that if you are persistent and talk to the right people, you can make things happen.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ultimately feels lacking in actual education (no matter how heavy the
workload).***
When I was in college, I was having a conversation with the person who had been the head of the dance department. The university I attended hired a new person to head the fine and performing arts, with the intent to eliminate the dance program easily and smoothly without a community outcry. He was very good at it, and the students didn't catch wind of it happening until right before it happened. They gave all the students that were trying to earn a degree, 1 yr after the elimination of the dance program to finish their degree. Everyone had half a year to finish the dance classes before they were gone and another year to finish all the other requirements.
There was no way I could do all the other requirements, because up until that point I had been taking tons of geology and anthropology classes alongside my dance classes. None of them applied to my degree. A dance degree at the time, required sociology and biology for the sciences and social sciences.
So, back to where I started here... I was talking with the person that had headed the dance department, sometime during the year following the demise of the program and sort of bemoaning the fact that I hadn't taken any of the required courses for my degree, mostly because they didn't interest me, so I had been putting them off. I made a meeting with the new dean (that was a long and complicated affair) and asked him to let me have credit for my social science and sciences with my geology and anthropology. He didn't want to deal with me or any other dance student so he gave me the credit and away I went. I relayed all this to my former instructor/advisor and she said to me, that we, as people, only really truly learn something when we are ready to learn it and that it was just as well that I didn't take those classes because I wouldn't have gotten from them what I really needed since the interest wasn't there, but that one day it may become
relevant and then I could learn it on my own.
It was one of those moments in your life when you've suddenly been enlightened by something that changes everything for you from that moment forward.
I understand why biology and sociology were required courses. What surprised and delighted me was how much anthropology applied to dance. None of the anthropology professors had encountered a dance student in their classes wanting to study dance through anthropology, yet they knew of some well known anthropologists who had done just that and were excited to share it with me. It's too bad universities couldn't be more flexible in this manner.
The other thing I learned through dealing with all that, is that, if as a student, you want something from the university and it seems as if it isn't happening and that doors close and there is layer and layer of beauracracy, that if you are persistent and talk to the right people, you can make things happen.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Thanks for all these. I'm passing them on to the guy who asked, and
having an exchange with him too.
Sandra
having an exchange with him too.
Sandra
aimee wiman
I went to a great college for a while that definitely took life experience
into account for credit. evergreen state college. No grades, create your
own major, projects are learner based. Loved it. nandi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
into account for credit. evergreen state college. No grades, create your
own major, projects are learner based. Loved it. nandi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kristi
I also went to Evergreen, and that is where I discovered that passion can exist in learning what one is interested in.
Ironically, my interests varied each year I was there. My first year my passion was literature and mythology, and a program met my needs, and introduced me to a new interest in natural history. My second year I became passionate in choreography and composition, which was promptly shut down by my practical, science-minded father (his quote to me was, I will not pay for you to sing and dance your way through college). Being optimistic and ever-changing I embarked upon the study of mycology (the study of fungi) and lichen biology and ended up with a bachelor's of science much to the satisfaction of my father. I left Evergreen 16 years ago, and I have continued to be highly passionate about learning everything I can in a hodge-podge of different fields--herbal medicine, Chinese medicine, labor and birthing, web-development, outdoor retail, adventure guiding, cycling, ecological fire recovery, unschooling, and the list goes on.
Hopefully this mans reflection on his current situation will be the springboard he needs to listen to his own heart, learning to be patient while he listens, and having the courage to make a change if one is needed.
Ironically, my interests varied each year I was there. My first year my passion was literature and mythology, and a program met my needs, and introduced me to a new interest in natural history. My second year I became passionate in choreography and composition, which was promptly shut down by my practical, science-minded father (his quote to me was, I will not pay for you to sing and dance your way through college). Being optimistic and ever-changing I embarked upon the study of mycology (the study of fungi) and lichen biology and ended up with a bachelor's of science much to the satisfaction of my father. I left Evergreen 16 years ago, and I have continued to be highly passionate about learning everything I can in a hodge-podge of different fields--herbal medicine, Chinese medicine, labor and birthing, web-development, outdoor retail, adventure guiding, cycling, ecological fire recovery, unschooling, and the list goes on.
Hopefully this mans reflection on his current situation will be the springboard he needs to listen to his own heart, learning to be patient while he listens, and having the courage to make a change if one is needed.
--- In [email protected], aimee wiman <mamanandi@...> wrote:
>
> I went to a great college for a while that definitely took life experience
> into account for credit. evergreen state college. No grades, create your
> own major, projects are learner based. Loved it. nandi
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jenny Cyphers
***My second year I became passionate in choreography and composition, which was promptly shut down by my practical, science-minded father (his quote to me was, I will not pay for you to sing and dance your way through college). ***
It offends my sense of being to know that people still don't see a connection between choreography and composition and the sciences. I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm sorry your father couldn't see beyond his own narrow definition of what science can encompass.
I would have loved to have gone to Evergreen. I had a friend that did and loved it. Her parents payed for her college. Mine didn't. I got to choose whatever I wanted to study, but it had to be a state school that I could afford. I studied dance and art, which my parents would've gladly payed for if they could have. They did take over a smaller loan as a graduation present, which was sweet.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It offends my sense of being to know that people still don't see a connection between choreography and composition and the sciences. I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm sorry your father couldn't see beyond his own narrow definition of what science can encompass.
I would have loved to have gone to Evergreen. I had a friend that did and loved it. Her parents payed for her college. Mine didn't. I got to choose whatever I wanted to study, but it had to be a state school that I could afford. I studied dance and art, which my parents would've gladly payed for if they could have. They did take over a smaller loan as a graduation present, which was sweet.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]