How long did it take your kids to eat "real" food?
Jerritt
So about two months ago we lifted pretty much any and all restrictions, including food. Complete foray into radical unschooling. We love the outcome. Love what it is doing for our family. Love the togetherness. My kids, though, are still pretty much eating like they are at a carnival everyday. Lots of fruit snacks (when we have them), candy, popcorn, chips, treats. They really never eat an actual meal. Never eat vegetables, and only occasionally eat fruit. We tried the monkey platter. They tend to pick off any meats and/or crackers on there and leave the rest. Sometimes they will eat the apples. I guess I am just looking for some reassurance that at some point a vegetable may pass their lips again. I wasn't a great veggie eater when I was young. My parents were hippies and very hands off -- no rules, no restrictions. Eventually, I learned to like veggies, so I am probably worrying for nothing, but I worry nonetheless because they are living on crap right now.
Sandra Dodd
-=- We love the outcome. Love what it is doing for our family. Love
the togetherness.-=-
You've contradicted yourself all in one paragraph. I was pretty
happy to read that you were loving the outcome.
I was confused, then to read this:
-=-Eventually, I learned to like veggies, so I am probably worrying
for nothing, but I worry nonetheless because they are living on crap
right now.
-=-
If you're thinking of any food as "crap" and if you're thinking your
kids are eating "crap," things aren't going as well as you think they
are. Or maybe, as often happens, your understanding has moved ahead
of your verbal ability. It happens with little kids all the time. <g>
Here's how it happens with moms: We have voices and phrases in our
heads that aren't coming from a mindful place of actual thought. It's
as though there are scripts we can fall into and continue a
conversation on auto-pilot. It's as dangerous to do that as it is to
drive a car without remembering where you meant to go. It's not as
physically dangerous; you're unlikely to kill a stranger or destroy a
car. You're in danger of ruining unschooling's chance of survival at
your house, though, and of wounding your children and your family's
peace.
Your children are not living on crap. Take that back, in your head
and in your heart. You told a thousand strangers your kids are
living on crap, even though you were a kid who wasn't crazy about
vegetables either. You said when you put a monkey platter out (when
you "tried" one--what's to try? DO IT! More than once) they ate the
meat and crackers. That's good! There are people forcing their kids
to eat meat and crackers all over the world right now. Yours did it
joyfully.
Here are some examples of the kinds of things moms will think, and say
and write (and re-read and still post) about their own beloved children:
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
http://sandradodd.com/ifilet
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the togetherness.-=-
You've contradicted yourself all in one paragraph. I was pretty
happy to read that you were loving the outcome.
I was confused, then to read this:
-=-Eventually, I learned to like veggies, so I am probably worrying
for nothing, but I worry nonetheless because they are living on crap
right now.
-=-
If you're thinking of any food as "crap" and if you're thinking your
kids are eating "crap," things aren't going as well as you think they
are. Or maybe, as often happens, your understanding has moved ahead
of your verbal ability. It happens with little kids all the time. <g>
Here's how it happens with moms: We have voices and phrases in our
heads that aren't coming from a mindful place of actual thought. It's
as though there are scripts we can fall into and continue a
conversation on auto-pilot. It's as dangerous to do that as it is to
drive a car without remembering where you meant to go. It's not as
physically dangerous; you're unlikely to kill a stranger or destroy a
car. You're in danger of ruining unschooling's chance of survival at
your house, though, and of wounding your children and your family's
peace.
Your children are not living on crap. Take that back, in your head
and in your heart. You told a thousand strangers your kids are
living on crap, even though you were a kid who wasn't crazy about
vegetables either. You said when you put a monkey platter out (when
you "tried" one--what's to try? DO IT! More than once) they ate the
meat and crackers. That's good! There are people forcing their kids
to eat meat and crackers all over the world right now. Yours did it
joyfully.
Here are some examples of the kinds of things moms will think, and say
and write (and re-read and still post) about their own beloved children:
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
http://sandradodd.com/ifilet
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I wasn't a great veggie eater when I was young. My parents were
hippies and very hands off -- no rules, no restrictions-=-
Do you think there are, in the world some "Great Veggie Eaters"? I
was thinking more about the odd disjointness of the descriptions of
food. It was like a swirl of attitudes and emotions. And many people
do live in a swirl of contradictory messages about what is "good food"
and "bad food" and about "self control" and "good eaters." Eating
shouldn't be a contest. Sometimes it is.
I was at rehab this morning, for my leg. Two more sessions and I
"graduate."
That's the only place I see the news. Last week some people died of
dehydration, and someone's in trouble.
This week, someone died of drinking too much water, and someone's in
trouble.
When people accept the skewed idea that they should eat or drink what
others tell them to, when others tell them to, because others told
them to (or not to) that's not healthy. But our culture is so
screwed up with what's okay for which people when, where and why that
many people don't have a CLUE what their body needs.
One of the stories I learned in a psychology class in college was that
any substance can kill a person, even drinking too much water. The
case study was a woman whose father had died, and she started drinking
water. I don't know why. I don't think he died of dehydration. But
she drank water in such quantity and so quickly in those first two
days after he died that she drowned from the inside, basically. So
there's something I learned in college that would have saved my
life. And maybe saved some other people's lives if I had been where
there was a water drinking contest. I would have had no hesitation at
all about walking up and telling the DJs that one of those people
could die.
Most people are afraid and so used to being controlled and so used to
letting other people do their thinking that they have forgotten how to
think clearly (if they ever could) and how to make simple little
decisions (if they ever had the chance to even try it, as kids or
young adults).
I was very happy at rehab and could do all the exercises they had me
do, and they added some new ones. I don't mind watching TV while I'm
there doing them, either, but I wish there were more shows about
people thinking clearly and making great decisions.
Here are some stories to take the bad taste of too much or too little
water out of your mouth, if you need:
http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/
The archive of some of the recent e-mail newsletters is here:
http://www.aweber.com/z/article/?gnn-newsletter
(I don't think "a cure for grey hair" is necessarily good news,
though. A "cure" for people scrambling to pretend to be younger than
they are might be better. Surely would involve fewer dangerous
chemicals, I'm sure.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hippies and very hands off -- no rules, no restrictions-=-
Do you think there are, in the world some "Great Veggie Eaters"? I
was thinking more about the odd disjointness of the descriptions of
food. It was like a swirl of attitudes and emotions. And many people
do live in a swirl of contradictory messages about what is "good food"
and "bad food" and about "self control" and "good eaters." Eating
shouldn't be a contest. Sometimes it is.
I was at rehab this morning, for my leg. Two more sessions and I
"graduate."
That's the only place I see the news. Last week some people died of
dehydration, and someone's in trouble.
This week, someone died of drinking too much water, and someone's in
trouble.
When people accept the skewed idea that they should eat or drink what
others tell them to, when others tell them to, because others told
them to (or not to) that's not healthy. But our culture is so
screwed up with what's okay for which people when, where and why that
many people don't have a CLUE what their body needs.
One of the stories I learned in a psychology class in college was that
any substance can kill a person, even drinking too much water. The
case study was a woman whose father had died, and she started drinking
water. I don't know why. I don't think he died of dehydration. But
she drank water in such quantity and so quickly in those first two
days after he died that she drowned from the inside, basically. So
there's something I learned in college that would have saved my
life. And maybe saved some other people's lives if I had been where
there was a water drinking contest. I would have had no hesitation at
all about walking up and telling the DJs that one of those people
could die.
Most people are afraid and so used to being controlled and so used to
letting other people do their thinking that they have forgotten how to
think clearly (if they ever could) and how to make simple little
decisions (if they ever had the chance to even try it, as kids or
young adults).
I was very happy at rehab and could do all the exercises they had me
do, and they added some new ones. I don't mind watching TV while I'm
there doing them, either, but I wish there were more shows about
people thinking clearly and making great decisions.
Here are some stories to take the bad taste of too much or too little
water out of your mouth, if you need:
http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/
The archive of some of the recent e-mail newsletters is here:
http://www.aweber.com/z/article/?gnn-newsletter
(I don't think "a cure for grey hair" is necessarily good news,
though. A "cure" for people scrambling to pretend to be younger than
they are might be better. Surely would involve fewer dangerous
chemicals, I'm sure.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jerritt Dayhoff
Wow! Thanks for the "support." Not sure that I'm gonna stick around. I
enjoy unschooling too much to be beat up because I can't measure up to your
idea of unschooling perfection. Thanks, though, for making me realize that
someone I really looked up to prior to this is actually only looking for
apostles to nod on cue.
enjoy unschooling too much to be beat up because I can't measure up to your
idea of unschooling perfection. Thanks, though, for making me realize that
someone I really looked up to prior to this is actually only looking for
apostles to nod on cue.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> -=-I wasn't a great veggie eater when I was young. My parents were
> hippies and very hands off -- no rules, no restrictions-=-
>
> Do you think there are, in the world some "Great Veggie Eaters"? I
> was thinking more about the odd disjointness of the descriptions of
> food. It was like a swirl of attitudes and emotions. And many people
> do live in a swirl of contradictory messages about what is "good food"
> and "bad food" and about "self control" and "good eaters." Eating
> shouldn't be a contest. Sometimes it is.
>
> I was at rehab this morning, for my leg. Two more sessions and I
> "graduate."
> That's the only place I see the news. Last week some people died of
> dehydration, and someone's in trouble.
> This week, someone died of drinking too much water, and someone's in
> trouble.
>
> When people accept the skewed idea that they should eat or drink what
> others tell them to, when others tell them to, because others told
> them to (or not to) that's not healthy. But our culture is so
> screwed up with what's okay for which people when, where and why that
> many people don't have a CLUE what their body needs.
>
> One of the stories I learned in a psychology class in college was that
> any substance can kill a person, even drinking too much water. The
> case study was a woman whose father had died, and she started drinking
> water. I don't know why. I don't think he died of dehydration. But
> she drank water in such quantity and so quickly in those first two
> days after he died that she drowned from the inside, basically. So
> there's something I learned in college that would have saved my
> life. And maybe saved some other people's lives if I had been where
> there was a water drinking contest. I would have had no hesitation at
> all about walking up and telling the DJs that one of those people
> could die.
>
> Most people are afraid and so used to being controlled and so used to
> letting other people do their thinking that they have forgotten how to
> think clearly (if they ever could) and how to make simple little
> decisions (if they ever had the chance to even try it, as kids or
> young adults).
>
> I was very happy at rehab and could do all the exercises they had me
> do, and they added some new ones. I don't mind watching TV while I'm
> there doing them, either, but I wish there were more shows about
> people thinking clearly and making great decisions.
>
> Here are some stories to take the bad taste of too much or too little
> water out of your mouth, if you need:
>
> http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/
> The archive of some of the recent e-mail newsletters is here:
> http://www.aweber.com/z/article/?gnn-newsletter
>
> (I don't think "a cure for grey hair" is necessarily good news,
> though. A "cure" for people scrambling to pretend to be younger than
> they are might be better. Surely would involve fewer dangerous
> chemicals, I'm sure.)
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Wow! Thanks for the "support."-=-
This list is for the discussion of ideas.
The "support" is here:
http://sandradodd.com/support
Seriously, that's the kind of support people often think they want.
Then they come back here for some useful information and ideas.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This list is for the discussion of ideas.
The "support" is here:
http://sandradodd.com/support
Seriously, that's the kind of support people often think they want.
Then they come back here for some useful information and ideas.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-How long did it take your kids to eat "real" food?-=-
Thinking of some foods as "real" and others as any form of unreal is
going to be as much a problem as dividing the world into fun and
learning, as though they were separate things.
A point like that shouldn't crush the feelings of anyone old enough to
be a mother, or anyone bright enough to consider unschooling. A
point like that can, and will, and does regularly help someone make
another level toward "beating the game" of deschooling. It's not
easy for people to recover from ten or twenty years of schooling, but
people do it. They don't do it from being supported to stay where
they are and be satisfied with muddly thinking and negativity, though.
My children ate real food when they started nursing. They ate real
food when they tasted mashed foods off the ends of people's fingers,
or strained fruit. They ate real food when they tasted other people's
food when they were toddlers but weren't forced to taste it, nor
pressed to finish it. They have always eaten real food, their whole
lives.
Stories of hundreds of kids are here and at links from this:
http://sandradodd.com/food
Sandra
Thinking of some foods as "real" and others as any form of unreal is
going to be as much a problem as dividing the world into fun and
learning, as though they were separate things.
A point like that shouldn't crush the feelings of anyone old enough to
be a mother, or anyone bright enough to consider unschooling. A
point like that can, and will, and does regularly help someone make
another level toward "beating the game" of deschooling. It's not
easy for people to recover from ten or twenty years of schooling, but
people do it. They don't do it from being supported to stay where
they are and be satisfied with muddly thinking and negativity, though.
My children ate real food when they started nursing. They ate real
food when they tasted mashed foods off the ends of people's fingers,
or strained fruit. They ate real food when they tasted other people's
food when they were toddlers but weren't forced to taste it, nor
pressed to finish it. They have always eaten real food, their whole
lives.
Stories of hundreds of kids are here and at links from this:
http://sandradodd.com/food
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
***Wow! Thanks for the "support." Not sure that I'm gonna stick around. I
enjoy unschooling too much to be beat up because I can't measure up to your
idea of unschooling perfection. Thanks, though, for making me realize that
someone I really looked up to prior to this is actually only looking for
apostles to nod on cue.***
Wow! Really? You're a few months into it and you're being very defensive. Unschooling takes a while to really get into practice, it takes many defensive moments to learn from and change. My oldest is 15. We came to unschooling when she was 5, it's been years in the making.
There have been many times when I've said something and people have called me on it.... THOSE are the learning moments, those are the things that I need to examine the most. That feeling of defensiveness is the first clue that I'm onto something that I need to change big time!
If Sandra hadn't said what she said, I would've said something VERY similar, because I had the very same thoughts go through my head about how you described food and how you portrayed what was happening in your household.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
enjoy unschooling too much to be beat up because I can't measure up to your
idea of unschooling perfection. Thanks, though, for making me realize that
someone I really looked up to prior to this is actually only looking for
apostles to nod on cue.***
Wow! Really? You're a few months into it and you're being very defensive. Unschooling takes a while to really get into practice, it takes many defensive moments to learn from and change. My oldest is 15. We came to unschooling when she was 5, it's been years in the making.
There have been many times when I've said something and people have called me on it.... THOSE are the learning moments, those are the things that I need to examine the most. That feeling of defensiveness is the first clue that I'm onto something that I need to change big time!
If Sandra hadn't said what she said, I would've said something VERY similar, because I had the very same thoughts go through my head about how you described food and how you portrayed what was happening in your household.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bernadette Lynn
2009/11/2 Jerritt jerritthooper@...
human diet.
I can ony speak for my own children, and my eldest is only ten, but in my
experience children eat different things according to their growth cycle: at
times they will eat vast amounts of carbs, put on a lot of weight, then
suddenly shoot up - at which point they'll eat more protein. that
observation really helped me trust that they know far better than I what
they need to eat. But something else helped me as well.
My eldest daughter was diagnosed with PDA when she was just nine; it was an
easily fixed problem but because her heart, for nine years, was working far
harder than normal it was using up every bit of energy she had to spare. I
'controlled' what she ate for five years, feeling vaguely guilty about
'giving in' and letting her fill up on biscuits and sweetened yoghurts when
I couldn''t persuade her to eat the 'good' stuff. She was tiny at four, even
the smallest size school uniform had to be taken up four inches to fit her
and most of a school year later it still fitted easily. She came out of
school every day crying with exhaustion and had to be fed chocolate even to
get the energy to walk to the car.
Then, two and a half terms after she started school we deregistered her to
home educate, and a couple of months after that I came across Schuyler
online, with her (what seemed to me) radical ideas about not restricting
food. Shortly after we stopped controlling her food Charlotte had the first
real growth spurt she'd ever had. We worried that she seemed to eat mostly
chocolate and cake but kept our worries to ourselves since she stayed (very)
slim and was healthier than she'd ever been before though still lacking in
energy.
She's still really small and only started putting on weight and growing
properly after the operation to fix her heart, but the surgeon was surprised
at how little damage her condition had done - apart from her small size and
a barely noticeable enlargement of one chamber of her heart she's normal,
healthy and strong.
If we'd stuck with controlling how much sugar she ate and making her go to
school and run around with the other children we could actually have made
her very, very sick - all with the best intentions of course. Instead we
spent several years supporting her in what she felt she needed, even when it
didn't look 'normal' to us, and it turned out to be the best thing we could
possibly have done. And she turned out pretty brilliant at dealing with her
needs, once we gave her a chance.
I'm sorry this turned out long.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I guess I am just looking for some reassurance that at some point aProtein and carbohydrates aren't 'crap'. They're essential parts of the
> vegetable may pass their lips again. I wasn't a great veggie eater when I
> was young. My parents were hippies and very hands off -- no rules, no
> restrictions. Eventually, I learned to like veggies, so I am probably
> worrying for nothing, but I worry nonetheless because they are living on
> crap right now.
>
human diet.
I can ony speak for my own children, and my eldest is only ten, but in my
experience children eat different things according to their growth cycle: at
times they will eat vast amounts of carbs, put on a lot of weight, then
suddenly shoot up - at which point they'll eat more protein. that
observation really helped me trust that they know far better than I what
they need to eat. But something else helped me as well.
My eldest daughter was diagnosed with PDA when she was just nine; it was an
easily fixed problem but because her heart, for nine years, was working far
harder than normal it was using up every bit of energy she had to spare. I
'controlled' what she ate for five years, feeling vaguely guilty about
'giving in' and letting her fill up on biscuits and sweetened yoghurts when
I couldn''t persuade her to eat the 'good' stuff. She was tiny at four, even
the smallest size school uniform had to be taken up four inches to fit her
and most of a school year later it still fitted easily. She came out of
school every day crying with exhaustion and had to be fed chocolate even to
get the energy to walk to the car.
Then, two and a half terms after she started school we deregistered her to
home educate, and a couple of months after that I came across Schuyler
online, with her (what seemed to me) radical ideas about not restricting
food. Shortly after we stopped controlling her food Charlotte had the first
real growth spurt she'd ever had. We worried that she seemed to eat mostly
chocolate and cake but kept our worries to ourselves since she stayed (very)
slim and was healthier than she'd ever been before though still lacking in
energy.
She's still really small and only started putting on weight and growing
properly after the operation to fix her heart, but the surgeon was surprised
at how little damage her condition had done - apart from her small size and
a barely noticeable enlargement of one chamber of her heart she's normal,
healthy and strong.
If we'd stuck with controlling how much sugar she ate and making her go to
school and run around with the other children we could actually have made
her very, very sick - all with the best intentions of course. Instead we
spent several years supporting her in what she felt she needed, even when it
didn't look 'normal' to us, and it turned out to be the best thing we could
possibly have done. And she turned out pretty brilliant at dealing with her
needs, once we gave her a chance.
I'm sorry this turned out long.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=I'm sorry this turned out long.-=-
I didn't think it was long at all. It was really interesting.
The idea that a child can just feel instinctively whether a food is
good for her at that time or not isn't anything I had ever heard at
all until I read an article in Mothering Magazine (don't know which
issue or who wrote it, but would like to know! I gave away all my old
magazines once) that said if you get a balanced diet's worth of a
week's worth of food (awkwardly stated; sorry) and let a toddler
choose what to eat when, it will balance out within the space of that
week.
Something like that.<g>
And Kirby was a baby, and it gave me a lot of confidence that maybe he
was smart beyond his verbalization, so we never forced food on him,
nor prohibited any.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I didn't think it was long at all. It was really interesting.
The idea that a child can just feel instinctively whether a food is
good for her at that time or not isn't anything I had ever heard at
all until I read an article in Mothering Magazine (don't know which
issue or who wrote it, but would like to know! I gave away all my old
magazines once) that said if you get a balanced diet's worth of a
week's worth of food (awkwardly stated; sorry) and let a toddler
choose what to eat when, it will balance out within the space of that
week.
Something like that.<g>
And Kirby was a baby, and it gave me a lot of confidence that maybe he
was smart beyond his verbalization, so we never forced food on him,
nor prohibited any.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mandy Ray-Jones
I'm really sorry that food is stressing you out. I can truly relate to this
issue. One thing that has really helped me to let go is to only have what I
consider to be "real" food in my home. If I don't buy what I would label as
"crap" then it's impossible for my kids to eat it... at least when we are at
home which is most of the time. My children are almost four and 5.5 and
they eat only healthy foods. They don't seem to mind this. I've even asked
them before if they would like to eat other types of food and they say no.
I don't even think that they would like the "crap".
I would also agree with some of the others on this thread that kids do tend
to eat more of certain foods at times than they do at other times. But
again if they are craving and asking for carbs then have lots of healthy
carbs on hand.
I think that it is important to help mentor our children about the food they
eat. Food is a very important factor when it comes to our immune systems.
I explain this to my children. I model good eating habits for my kids. If
I don't want my kids to eat for instance McDonalds then they will never see
me eating that food. I blog <http://www.bonafidemama.com/> a great deal
about healthy foods and I'd be happy to talk privately with you as well.
Best of luck!
issue. One thing that has really helped me to let go is to only have what I
consider to be "real" food in my home. If I don't buy what I would label as
"crap" then it's impossible for my kids to eat it... at least when we are at
home which is most of the time. My children are almost four and 5.5 and
they eat only healthy foods. They don't seem to mind this. I've even asked
them before if they would like to eat other types of food and they say no.
I don't even think that they would like the "crap".
I would also agree with some of the others on this thread that kids do tend
to eat more of certain foods at times than they do at other times. But
again if they are craving and asking for carbs then have lots of healthy
carbs on hand.
I think that it is important to help mentor our children about the food they
eat. Food is a very important factor when it comes to our immune systems.
I explain this to my children. I model good eating habits for my kids. If
I don't want my kids to eat for instance McDonalds then they will never see
me eating that food. I blog <http://www.bonafidemama.com/> a great deal
about healthy foods and I'd be happy to talk privately with you as well.
Best of luck!
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> -=-How long did it take your kids to eat "real" food?-=-
>
> Thinking of some foods as "real" and others as any form of unreal is
> going to be as much a problem as dividing the world into fun and
> learning, as though they were separate things.
>
> A point like that shouldn't crush the feelings of anyone old enough to
> be a mother, or anyone bright enough to consider unschooling. A
> point like that can, and will, and does regularly help someone make
> another level toward "beating the game" of deschooling. It's not
> easy for people to recover from ten or twenty years of schooling, but
> people do it. They don't do it from being supported to stay where
> they are and be satisfied with muddly thinking and negativity, though.
>
> My children ate real food when they started nursing. They ate real
> food when they tasted mashed foods off the ends of people's fingers,
> or strained fruit. They ate real food when they tasted other people's
> food when they were toddlers but weren't forced to taste it, nor
> pressed to finish it. They have always eaten real food, their whole
> lives.
>
> Stories of hundreds of kids are here and at links from this:
> http://sandradodd.com/food
>
> Sandra
>
>
--
Mandy Ray-Jones
Artsy Mamas Executive Director and Founder
http://artsymamas.org/
Child of God, Supermom, Wife, Aspiring Natural Nutritionist, Truth Seeker,
Lover of Life, Friend, and Geeky Blogger
http://www.bonafidemama.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I have 4 boys by birth. They have always been allowed to eat whenever and whatever they want. Food have not been an issue in our house. Now that being said we adopted a little girl at the age of 8. She has suffered starvation and food restrictions. Since she has been with us (two years) she has doubled her weight. She is now 5'2" and weighs 170lbs. I feel like I am hurting her by allowing her free reign over her intake.
She is very sneaky with food. She takes food or drinks from other people. Example: We went to the movies with their Nana who bought drinks and sweets and popcorn for everyone. I looked over and saw her drinking from her Nana's cup several times. ( I did not acknowledge this to her) If I get them something to share she gets extremely upset. Example: The other day we were out longer then I expected. I only had enough money to buy 2 sub sandwiches from Subway. There were 4 of us. I offered this choice to everyone and they all agreed. But then once inside when she really realized she was sharing ( I explained this in the car) she fell to pieces. She refused to make any choices. So I made the choices taking into consideration her likes and by the time we were in the car she was in tears. I was not mean to her and I stayed calm. She did eat her half of the sandwich. She has to control food for others too she will yell at our 5 year old for eating chips in the morning, I have always allowed chips in the morning. We do not limit the kids candy after Halloween after a few days I have always put their left over candy into one bowl and that works for everyone except for her. She will get upset so last year I kept her candy separate and combined the others and she ate theirs till it was gone before going to hers. This created a situation where she had candy and no one else did. She likes to hold it over their heads. This is the same for things like cereal too. Everyone will choose a cereal and she will pick something no one else likes and then will not even open it till all the other cereal is gone. I have thoughts of only letting her eat her choice but I think that is mean too. I would really like to defuse this situations. I am at a loss for what to do. I know that she is picking up negative attitude from me in this regard and that I think is due to the fact that I feel I have to protect the boys fare share.
My thinking was that given every opportunity to control her own intake some of these behaviors would subside. The major improvement I have seen is she no longer eats till she throws up. I would really like to hear what you all observe about this. Perhaps I need an attitude adjustment or maybe this will take more time that I thought. Has anyone else dealt with this type of behavior? I do not want her to grow up having food issues, and I especially do not want to be a person in her life to add or create food issues.
Tiffani
She is very sneaky with food. She takes food or drinks from other people. Example: We went to the movies with their Nana who bought drinks and sweets and popcorn for everyone. I looked over and saw her drinking from her Nana's cup several times. ( I did not acknowledge this to her) If I get them something to share she gets extremely upset. Example: The other day we were out longer then I expected. I only had enough money to buy 2 sub sandwiches from Subway. There were 4 of us. I offered this choice to everyone and they all agreed. But then once inside when she really realized she was sharing ( I explained this in the car) she fell to pieces. She refused to make any choices. So I made the choices taking into consideration her likes and by the time we were in the car she was in tears. I was not mean to her and I stayed calm. She did eat her half of the sandwich. She has to control food for others too she will yell at our 5 year old for eating chips in the morning, I have always allowed chips in the morning. We do not limit the kids candy after Halloween after a few days I have always put their left over candy into one bowl and that works for everyone except for her. She will get upset so last year I kept her candy separate and combined the others and she ate theirs till it was gone before going to hers. This created a situation where she had candy and no one else did. She likes to hold it over their heads. This is the same for things like cereal too. Everyone will choose a cereal and she will pick something no one else likes and then will not even open it till all the other cereal is gone. I have thoughts of only letting her eat her choice but I think that is mean too. I would really like to defuse this situations. I am at a loss for what to do. I know that she is picking up negative attitude from me in this regard and that I think is due to the fact that I feel I have to protect the boys fare share.
My thinking was that given every opportunity to control her own intake some of these behaviors would subside. The major improvement I have seen is she no longer eats till she throws up. I would really like to hear what you all observe about this. Perhaps I need an attitude adjustment or maybe this will take more time that I thought. Has anyone else dealt with this type of behavior? I do not want her to grow up having food issues, and I especially do not want to be a person in her life to add or create food issues.
Tiffani
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2009 1:15:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] How long did it take your kids to eat "real" food?
-=-How long did it take your kids to eat "real" food?-=-
Thinking of some foods as "real" and others as any form of unreal is
going to be as much a problem as dividing the world into fun and
learning, as though they were separate things.
A point like that shouldn't crush the feelings of anyone old enough to
be a mother, or anyone bright enough to consider unschooling. A
point like that can, and will, and does regularly help someone make
another level toward "beating the game" of deschooling. It's not
easy for people to recover from ten or twenty years of schooling, but
people do it. They don't do it from being supported to stay where
they are and be satisfied with muddly thinking and negativity, though.
My children ate real food when they started nursing. They ate real
food when they tasted mashed foods off the ends of people's fingers,
or strained fruit. They ate real food when they tasted other people's
food when they were toddlers but weren't forced to taste it, nor
pressed to finish it. They have always eaten real food, their whole
lives.
Stories of hundreds of kids are here and at links from this:
http://sandradodd.com/food
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Norman
I¹ve been thinking this for the last 8months or so since I came properly to
take unschooling on board. I have a 4.5 year old and a 16mth old. Its just
about the notion of support¹. I have been on attachment
parenting/alternative mothering lists/sites since my 4 year old was born.
He is what some would call highly spirited¹ so I have had lots of questions
and heart aches and confusion surrounding him and have sought out lots of
advice and support from these lovely lists and sites and although I have had
help from them and spoke to many helpful and supportive women I was
actually beginning to get frustrated with support¹ - I really wanted
answers to help me sort out this confusing messy mothering life more than
support.
Then I stubble across sandras site and join up to the lists and do lots of
reading and start to implement what I am learning all starting 8mths ago.
Well I can say that in those 8mths I have moved on 10times more in my
parenting than I have for the previous 3+ years were I was getting lots of
lovely support. Our family is far from perfect and I have so much more to
learn I feel I have but scratched the surface as yet. I have had the
horrible uncomfortable challenged feelings etc its not nice, its hard to
face, but it does make you grow and stretch if you can bear the
uncomfortableness of it!
Oh and sandra I loved that support link was really funny!
Hope that ok for me to say all that!
Karen x
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
take unschooling on board. I have a 4.5 year old and a 16mth old. Its just
about the notion of support¹. I have been on attachment
parenting/alternative mothering lists/sites since my 4 year old was born.
He is what some would call highly spirited¹ so I have had lots of questions
and heart aches and confusion surrounding him and have sought out lots of
advice and support from these lovely lists and sites and although I have had
help from them and spoke to many helpful and supportive women I was
actually beginning to get frustrated with support¹ - I really wanted
answers to help me sort out this confusing messy mothering life more than
support.
Then I stubble across sandras site and join up to the lists and do lots of
reading and start to implement what I am learning all starting 8mths ago.
Well I can say that in those 8mths I have moved on 10times more in my
parenting than I have for the previous 3+ years were I was getting lots of
lovely support. Our family is far from perfect and I have so much more to
learn I feel I have but scratched the surface as yet. I have had the
horrible uncomfortable challenged feelings etc its not nice, its hard to
face, but it does make you grow and stretch if you can bear the
uncomfortableness of it!
Oh and sandra I loved that support link was really funny!
Hope that ok for me to say all that!
Karen x
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=My thinking was that given every opportunity to control her own
intake some of these behaviors would subside. The major improvement I
have seen is she no longer eats till she throws up. I would really
like to hear what you all observe about this. Perhaps I need an
attitude adjustment or maybe this will take more time that I thought.
Has anyone else dealt with this type of behavior? -=-
My younger cousin. She was a food hoarder as a kid. We had six
people and when there were a dozen of something, each person could
have two, and only two. She would eat one and save her other (donut
or cookie or whatever) until all the rest were gone, and would eat it
in front of us. There was a cruelty to it, kind of a sadistic "AHA!
I am making you hungry!" but I think it was because she had suffered a
lot of hurt and deprivation and was passing it back out.
I think your daughter already has food issues and they're not of your
making. Just because she gets fat for a while doesn't mean she'll
always be. Or maybe she will always be. But it's not your doing.
I'm sorry for your boys, though. My parents didn't "save" my cousins
by bringing them into our home, and it made my life and my sisters'
very hard.
-=- Everyone will choose a cereal and she will pick something no one
else likes and then will not even open it till all the other cereal is
gone. I have thoughts of only letting her eat her choice but I think
that is mean too. I would really like to defuse this situations. I
am at a loss for what to do. I know that she is picking up negative
attitude from me in this regard and that I think is due to the fact
that I feel I have to protect the boys fare share. -=-
Are the boys all older than the ten year old girl?
Maybe you could ask whether she would like to have her own food
separate or to share. Dont' let her say "both." Or let her, but
gradually point out the unfairness of it. If she wants hers separate,
then mark hers and tell her to leave the shared bowl of candy or
cereal alone. She'll get tired of that pretty soon, I bet. But
"pretty soon" in her case might still be years.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
intake some of these behaviors would subside. The major improvement I
have seen is she no longer eats till she throws up. I would really
like to hear what you all observe about this. Perhaps I need an
attitude adjustment or maybe this will take more time that I thought.
Has anyone else dealt with this type of behavior? -=-
My younger cousin. She was a food hoarder as a kid. We had six
people and when there were a dozen of something, each person could
have two, and only two. She would eat one and save her other (donut
or cookie or whatever) until all the rest were gone, and would eat it
in front of us. There was a cruelty to it, kind of a sadistic "AHA!
I am making you hungry!" but I think it was because she had suffered a
lot of hurt and deprivation and was passing it back out.
I think your daughter already has food issues and they're not of your
making. Just because she gets fat for a while doesn't mean she'll
always be. Or maybe she will always be. But it's not your doing.
I'm sorry for your boys, though. My parents didn't "save" my cousins
by bringing them into our home, and it made my life and my sisters'
very hard.
-=- Everyone will choose a cereal and she will pick something no one
else likes and then will not even open it till all the other cereal is
gone. I have thoughts of only letting her eat her choice but I think
that is mean too. I would really like to defuse this situations. I
am at a loss for what to do. I know that she is picking up negative
attitude from me in this regard and that I think is due to the fact
that I feel I have to protect the boys fare share. -=-
Are the boys all older than the ten year old girl?
Maybe you could ask whether she would like to have her own food
separate or to share. Dont' let her say "both." Or let her, but
gradually point out the unfairness of it. If she wants hers separate,
then mark hers and tell her to leave the shared bowl of candy or
cereal alone. She'll get tired of that pretty soon, I bet. But
"pretty soon" in her case might still be years.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-One thing that has really helped me to let go is to only have what I
consider to be "real" food in my home. If I don't buy what I would
label as
"crap" then it's impossible for my kids to eat it...-=-
Please back away from dividing food into "real" and "crap." It's not
getting nearer to useful unschooling discussion.
Unless you don't expect your kids to grow to adulthood, your theory
that it's "impossible" for them to get what you consider to be bad is
a very bad theory.
I had a niece stay with us many years ago whose parents were natural
food fanatics. She was never EVER allowed to even taste anything that
had refined sugar in it. Not even a little bit. She was five, and we
lost her. It was a six-acre property so I wasn't too worried about
finding her, but when I did I discovered why she hadn't answered when
we called her. She was squatting in the garden between rows of
vegetables, with a paper bag of sugar she'd gotten from the pantry,
and she was eating it as fast as she could, one hand at her mouth and
the other in the bag, back and forth, knowing she would be caught and
it would be taken away from her.
Her mom wasn't there. I didn't yell at her at all. I was kind to
her. It was a huge example of what comes of limits, though.
Desperation, sneakiness, and the wild desire to eat sugar straight
from the bag.
My kids haven't been limited or deprived, and they don't open the
little sugar packets at restaurants and eat them.
-=-I think that it is important to help mentor our children about the
food they eat.-=-
I don't think of myself as my children's food mentor. I've been their
provider and comfort and partner. The youngest of three turned 18
today. They're healthy and bright.
There are stories here about unschooling and food: http://sandradodd.com/food
There are countless stories here about limits and controls: http://google.com
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
consider to be "real" food in my home. If I don't buy what I would
label as
"crap" then it's impossible for my kids to eat it...-=-
Please back away from dividing food into "real" and "crap." It's not
getting nearer to useful unschooling discussion.
Unless you don't expect your kids to grow to adulthood, your theory
that it's "impossible" for them to get what you consider to be bad is
a very bad theory.
I had a niece stay with us many years ago whose parents were natural
food fanatics. She was never EVER allowed to even taste anything that
had refined sugar in it. Not even a little bit. She was five, and we
lost her. It was a six-acre property so I wasn't too worried about
finding her, but when I did I discovered why she hadn't answered when
we called her. She was squatting in the garden between rows of
vegetables, with a paper bag of sugar she'd gotten from the pantry,
and she was eating it as fast as she could, one hand at her mouth and
the other in the bag, back and forth, knowing she would be caught and
it would be taken away from her.
Her mom wasn't there. I didn't yell at her at all. I was kind to
her. It was a huge example of what comes of limits, though.
Desperation, sneakiness, and the wild desire to eat sugar straight
from the bag.
My kids haven't been limited or deprived, and they don't open the
little sugar packets at restaurants and eat them.
-=-I think that it is important to help mentor our children about the
food they eat.-=-
I don't think of myself as my children's food mentor. I've been their
provider and comfort and partner. The youngest of three turned 18
today. They're healthy and bright.
There are stories here about unschooling and food: http://sandradodd.com/food
There are countless stories here about limits and controls: http://google.com
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Oh and sandra � I loved that support link � was really funny!=-
Thanks.
I just got tired of people saying "I came here for support, and you're
telling me what I'm doing wrong."
Well... yeah. Because people come here (if they've read the intro)
to get help to move toward unschooling and away from traditional
parenting.
Some people do love to be told that what they're doing is just as good
as anything anyone has ever done or ever could, and that unschooling
is just whatever anyone wants it to be.
Why would I spend years of time to give people that worthless pap?
There's no joy in putting smiley-face bandaids on gaping wounds.
I'm not here to "support" mothers who are badmouthing their children.
I'm here to support children whose mothers think maybe there's a
better way to be generous and peaceful and mindful with their children.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks.
I just got tired of people saying "I came here for support, and you're
telling me what I'm doing wrong."
Well... yeah. Because people come here (if they've read the intro)
to get help to move toward unschooling and away from traditional
parenting.
Some people do love to be told that what they're doing is just as good
as anything anyone has ever done or ever could, and that unschooling
is just whatever anyone wants it to be.
Why would I spend years of time to give people that worthless pap?
There's no joy in putting smiley-face bandaids on gaping wounds.
I'm not here to "support" mothers who are badmouthing their children.
I'm here to support children whose mothers think maybe there's a
better way to be generous and peaceful and mindful with their children.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
this is what food control and limitd does ( a study):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNA3zltptmk
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNA3zltptmk
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mandy Ray-Jones
I meant that in my home as long as they are in my home they won't be eating
it simply because it's not here. It's true that I can't control what
happens when they are out of my sight but it will be a while until I need to
contend with that. My son and I both have some health issues which make it
pretty important that we avoid sugars... including large amounts of honey
and maple syrup. We use low glycemic sweeteners in our home. I feel that
it's my job to keep him healthy and for him to not end up in a diabetic
coma.
And my children have had refined sweeteners. Just in moderation... which
happens organically for our family since we just don't keep that stuff
around the house. If we are out and about we might have a little. As long
as we don't make a big deal out of it, it's really a nonissue. Certainly no
break downs or fights or leg biting! Just maybe a little bargaining and a
reminder that we want to stay healthy with our blood sugar and ALWAYS a safe
alternative.
I think we've all heard stories about children who have binged on
sugar/sweets as a result of being restricted. I hate that that happened. I
know that my mom told me a story of hiding out with a bag of cookies when
she was a kid. She was allowed to eat sugar. She just wanted to eat all of
the centers from the cookies so she took the bag, hid, and ate them all. It
was just something that happened. Not because she was restricted but
because she had a mission! Just this weekend my son ate a large amount of
the low sugar "healthier" snacks and he complained of a tummy ache. I asked
him if maybe it was because he had eaten more treats than normal and he
agreed that it could have been that and he'd back off for a little while.
No tears. Tummy ache went away. Lesson learned.
it simply because it's not here. It's true that I can't control what
happens when they are out of my sight but it will be a while until I need to
contend with that. My son and I both have some health issues which make it
pretty important that we avoid sugars... including large amounts of honey
and maple syrup. We use low glycemic sweeteners in our home. I feel that
it's my job to keep him healthy and for him to not end up in a diabetic
coma.
And my children have had refined sweeteners. Just in moderation... which
happens organically for our family since we just don't keep that stuff
around the house. If we are out and about we might have a little. As long
as we don't make a big deal out of it, it's really a nonissue. Certainly no
break downs or fights or leg biting! Just maybe a little bargaining and a
reminder that we want to stay healthy with our blood sugar and ALWAYS a safe
alternative.
I think we've all heard stories about children who have binged on
sugar/sweets as a result of being restricted. I hate that that happened. I
know that my mom told me a story of hiding out with a bag of cookies when
she was a kid. She was allowed to eat sugar. She just wanted to eat all of
the centers from the cookies so she took the bag, hid, and ate them all. It
was just something that happened. Not because she was restricted but
because she had a mission! Just this weekend my son ate a large amount of
the low sugar "healthier" snacks and he complained of a tummy ache. I asked
him if maybe it was because he had eaten more treats than normal and he
agreed that it could have been that and he'd back off for a little while.
No tears. Tummy ache went away. Lesson learned.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> -=-One thing that has really helped me to let go is to only have what I
> consider to be "real" food in my home. If I don't buy what I would
> label as
> "crap" then it's impossible for my kids to eat it...-=-
>
> Please back away from dividing food into "real" and "crap." It's not
> getting nearer to useful unschooling discussion.
>
> Unless you don't expect your kids to grow to adulthood, your theory
> that it's "impossible" for them to get what you consider to be bad is
> a very bad theory.
>
> I had a niece stay with us many years ago whose parents were natural
> food fanatics. She was never EVER allowed to even taste anything that
> had refined sugar in it. Not even a little bit. She was five, and we
> lost her. It was a six-acre property so I wasn't too worried about
> finding her, but when I did I discovered why she hadn't answered when
> we called her. She was squatting in the garden between rows of
> vegetables, with a paper bag of sugar she'd gotten from the pantry,
> and she was eating it as fast as she could, one hand at her mouth and
> the other in the bag, back and forth, knowing she would be caught and
> it would be taken away from her.
>
> Her mom wasn't there. I didn't yell at her at all. I was kind to
> her. It was a huge example of what comes of limits, though.
> Desperation, sneakiness, and the wild desire to eat sugar straight
> from the bag.
>
> My kids haven't been limited or deprived, and they don't open the
> little sugar packets at restaurants and eat them.
>
> -=-I think that it is important to help mentor our children about the
> food they eat.-=-
>
> I don't think of myself as my children's food mentor. I've been their
> provider and comfort and partner. The youngest of three turned 18
> today. They're healthy and bright.
>
> There are stories here about unschooling and food:
> http://sandradodd.com/food
> There are countless stories here about limits and controls:
> http://google.com
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
Mandy Ray-Jones
Artsy Mamas Executive Director and Founder
http://artsymamas.org/
Child of God, Supermom, Wife, Aspiring Natural Nutritionist, Truth Seeker,
Lover of Life, Friend, and Geeky Blogger
http://www.bonafidemama.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I meant that in my home as long as they are in my home they won't
be eating
it simply because it's not here.-=-
I knew what you meant. I wanted to make sure you saw what you had said.
You could do the same thing for games or TV or plastic toys or rock
and roll.
I don't think it's as simple as you think it is. (" they won't be
eating it simply because ...")
-=-It's true that I can't control what happens when they are out of my
sight but it will be a while until I need to contend with that. -=-
What if it's twenty years before the backlash? What if it's ten? Five?
What if you could live in such a way that there would never be one at
all?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be eating
it simply because it's not here.-=-
I knew what you meant. I wanted to make sure you saw what you had said.
You could do the same thing for games or TV or plastic toys or rock
and roll.
I don't think it's as simple as you think it is. (" they won't be
eating it simply because ...")
-=-It's true that I can't control what happens when they are out of my
sight but it will be a while until I need to contend with that. -=-
What if it's twenty years before the backlash? What if it's ten? Five?
What if you could live in such a way that there would never be one at
all?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mizelenius
--- In [email protected], tiffermom@... wrote:
I would say, continue not focusing on food, her weight, etc. and instead remember that she is still going through and testing that "trust vs. mistrust stage" (according to Erikson, the very first conflict we deal with in life!) because her needs have not been met for so long. Anything you do in terms of restricting food is only going to set her back-- she will again fear that she will not get enough.
-Elena
>My take when it comes to this type of thing is that it isn't about food-- it is about "enough." It is about not having had enough in her life . . .in her case, it sounds like she had far from enough of even the most basic of needs. She suffered for 6 critical years of her development, and has only been with you two-- not even half the time of what she endured.
>
>
> I have 4 boys by birth. They have always been allowed to eat whenever and whatever they want. Food have not been an issue in our house. Now that being said we adopted a little girl at the age of 8. She has suffered starvation and food restrictions. Since she has been with us (two years) she has doubled her weight. She is now 5'2" and weighs 170lbs. I feel like I am hurting her by allowing her free reign over her intake.Â
I would say, continue not focusing on food, her weight, etc. and instead remember that she is still going through and testing that "trust vs. mistrust stage" (according to Erikson, the very first conflict we deal with in life!) because her needs have not been met for so long. Anything you do in terms of restricting food is only going to set her back-- she will again fear that she will not get enough.
-Elena
[email protected]
I have two comments on this subject...
Someone just posted about the guy who eats a lot of sugar and candy etc. I loved that article!! My experience with foods have lead me to sickness and near death (cancer). My grandparents who mostly raised me, allowed me to eat whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. They did at one point try and restrict sugar foods for a bit because they believed it was making my touretts worse. Thankfully they gave up on this!! Anyhow, we all sat down together for dinner, no matter what, but it was more about being together and talking then eating veggies. I was always really healthy and at a perfect weight!! It wasn't until I grew older and let "society" into my head that I started to try and eat healthy. I started getting sick all the time, etc. My weight ballooned. I even asked my doctor if I could be allergic to vegetables. He, of course, scoffed this idea. Then... finally I got it!!! I started eating foods that I wanted to eat. Foods that my body wanted me to eat, and I am finally healing. I have some bowel issues that are healing, but I know that if I continue to do what my body tells me, I will be back on the path of my dreams. I don't eat meals, I eat breakfast later in the day and sometimes even have cereal for dinner. Sometimes I crave a salad or some steamed veggies. I love fruit and totally love chocolate!! My grandfather, who is 85 eats either a whole pie, cake, a pan of cinnamon rolls, a package of cookies, etc. everyday!!! He is fit as a fiddle. He swears that water will rust his insides so he drinks coffee and koolaid when he's thirsty. Here's the kicker... he has smoked since he was 8 years old!!! (He grew up on a farm where it was execeptable for boys to smoke early.) I believe that he has a firm believe that he is healthy and no matter what, food nor smoking, etc. will kill him. He'll go when he's ready to. Amazing!!
Secondly... I do hope that Jerritt will come back eventually. I know when I first started reading and asking questions here, I felt rebuked or rebuffed myself. Now that I have let unschooling sink in and have learned that when I feel contrast, there is probably a good reason, and that it is within myself. I investigate and see why I feel contrast and make sure I'm not swimming up stream instead of floating downstream where life is easier.
*Jerritt can be found earlier in the postings of this topic and felt offended.
Someone just posted about the guy who eats a lot of sugar and candy etc. I loved that article!! My experience with foods have lead me to sickness and near death (cancer). My grandparents who mostly raised me, allowed me to eat whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. They did at one point try and restrict sugar foods for a bit because they believed it was making my touretts worse. Thankfully they gave up on this!! Anyhow, we all sat down together for dinner, no matter what, but it was more about being together and talking then eating veggies. I was always really healthy and at a perfect weight!! It wasn't until I grew older and let "society" into my head that I started to try and eat healthy. I started getting sick all the time, etc. My weight ballooned. I even asked my doctor if I could be allergic to vegetables. He, of course, scoffed this idea. Then... finally I got it!!! I started eating foods that I wanted to eat. Foods that my body wanted me to eat, and I am finally healing. I have some bowel issues that are healing, but I know that if I continue to do what my body tells me, I will be back on the path of my dreams. I don't eat meals, I eat breakfast later in the day and sometimes even have cereal for dinner. Sometimes I crave a salad or some steamed veggies. I love fruit and totally love chocolate!! My grandfather, who is 85 eats either a whole pie, cake, a pan of cinnamon rolls, a package of cookies, etc. everyday!!! He is fit as a fiddle. He swears that water will rust his insides so he drinks coffee and koolaid when he's thirsty. Here's the kicker... he has smoked since he was 8 years old!!! (He grew up on a farm where it was execeptable for boys to smoke early.) I believe that he has a firm believe that he is healthy and no matter what, food nor smoking, etc. will kill him. He'll go when he's ready to. Amazing!!
Secondly... I do hope that Jerritt will come back eventually. I know when I first started reading and asking questions here, I felt rebuked or rebuffed myself. Now that I have let unschooling sink in and have learned that when I feel contrast, there is probably a good reason, and that it is within myself. I investigate and see why I feel contrast and make sure I'm not swimming up stream instead of floating downstream where life is easier.
*Jerritt can be found earlier in the postings of this topic and felt offended.
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Jerritt Dayhoff <jerritthooper@...> wrote:
Bob
>Jeez, mate, if you're gonna spit the dummy every time somebody calls you on sloppy thinking, good luck with living successfully outside the sheepstream.
> Wow! Thanks for the "support." Not sure that I'm gonna stick around. I
> enjoy unschooling too much to be beat up because I can't measure up to your
> idea of unschooling perfection. Thanks, though, for making me realize that
> someone I really looked up to prior to this is actually only looking for
> apostles to nod on cue.
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
Bob
Sandra Dodd
-=-My take when it comes to this type of thing is that it isn't about
food-- it is about "enough." It is about not having had enough in her
life . . .in her case, it sounds like she had far from enough of even
the most basic of needs-=-
I agree.
Would giving her more opportunities to make decisions that affect you
or the house or the schedule? Maybe she needs power and influence.
When she has money what does she like to buy?
Does she have any interest in sports or dance or hiking or anything
physical? Maybe exertion of large muscles would help her be relaxed
and tired. If she has a lot of angst and energy it might distract
her from thinking about food. Not in a manipulative way, but just to
see if there are other ways for her to feel focussed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
food-- it is about "enough." It is about not having had enough in her
life . . .in her case, it sounds like she had far from enough of even
the most basic of needs-=-
I agree.
Would giving her more opportunities to make decisions that affect you
or the house or the schedule? Maybe she needs power and influence.
When she has money what does she like to buy?
Does she have any interest in sports or dance or hiking or anything
physical? Maybe exertion of large muscles would help her be relaxed
and tired. If she has a lot of angst and energy it might distract
her from thinking about food. Not in a manipulative way, but just to
see if there are other ways for her to feel focussed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
> Jeez, mate, if you're gonna spit the dummy every time somebody callsHa, I miss hearing that - "spit the dummy." Thanks, Bob!
> you on sloppy thinking, good luck with living successfully outside
> the sheepstream.
In case folks don't know what it means, think spitting out a soother
or pacifier in indignation <g>.
Robin B.
Jenny Cyphers
***One thing that has really helped me to let go is to only have what I
consider to be "real" food in my home. If I don't buy what I would label as
"crap" then it's impossible for my kids to eat it... ***
That works for a while with very young children. As long as you don't visit other people's houses who consider different food to be "real", or go to family gatherings and potlucks. This is very much how I grew up, and let me tell you that it didn't help me learn how to listen to my body at all. I chose not to repeat that with my own children.
*** My children are almost four and 5.5 and
they eat only healthy foods.***
Or another way to rephrase that is that they only eat foods that mom considers healthy, it seems clear that the kids don't get to decide this for themselves.
***They don't seem to mind this.***
Not yet perhaps.
***I've even asked
them before if they would like to eat other types of food and they say no.
I don't even think that they would like the "crap".***
That seems like entrapment. What kind of "other" foods are being offered? Really think about that... You are offering food, or "other" food. It's all food. Some of it has been given a value with positive and some of it has been given a negative value. How are kids to grow up learning how to make good choices for themselves if someone else is always doing it for them?
***I think that it is important to help mentor our children about the food they
eat.***
What's important is to help our kids learn how to make good choices for themselves. I don't want my children to parrot everything I say, I want them to think their own thoughts and have their own ideas. Sometimes you have kids that actually agree with you on lots of things, but that's not going to happen if parents try to control or restrict children, even if it's "for their own good", like eating some foods and avoiding others to help our immune system.
***If I don't want my kids to eat for instance McDonalds then they will never see
me eating that food. ***
I never eat at McDonalds, but my kids have both enjoyed many a happy meal over the years, largely because of the toys, and each of them have eaten what they liked and discarded the rest. My 15 yr old hasn't eaten at McD's in years and my youngest has eaten a few bites of food from there a few times in the last 6 mos. Both of them would choose Subway over most places for fastfood, or a bento place or sushi place.
My goal for not eating at McD's myself was not to encourage my kids not to eat, it was because I can't eat most things from there. Which goes back to my own childhood and issues around food and not learning about, and not being able to listen to my own body's cues because my own parents were quite sure they new what was best and healthiest for my body.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
consider to be "real" food in my home. If I don't buy what I would label as
"crap" then it's impossible for my kids to eat it... ***
That works for a while with very young children. As long as you don't visit other people's houses who consider different food to be "real", or go to family gatherings and potlucks. This is very much how I grew up, and let me tell you that it didn't help me learn how to listen to my body at all. I chose not to repeat that with my own children.
*** My children are almost four and 5.5 and
they eat only healthy foods.***
Or another way to rephrase that is that they only eat foods that mom considers healthy, it seems clear that the kids don't get to decide this for themselves.
***They don't seem to mind this.***
Not yet perhaps.
***I've even asked
them before if they would like to eat other types of food and they say no.
I don't even think that they would like the "crap".***
That seems like entrapment. What kind of "other" foods are being offered? Really think about that... You are offering food, or "other" food. It's all food. Some of it has been given a value with positive and some of it has been given a negative value. How are kids to grow up learning how to make good choices for themselves if someone else is always doing it for them?
***I think that it is important to help mentor our children about the food they
eat.***
What's important is to help our kids learn how to make good choices for themselves. I don't want my children to parrot everything I say, I want them to think their own thoughts and have their own ideas. Sometimes you have kids that actually agree with you on lots of things, but that's not going to happen if parents try to control or restrict children, even if it's "for their own good", like eating some foods and avoiding others to help our immune system.
***If I don't want my kids to eat for instance McDonalds then they will never see
me eating that food. ***
I never eat at McDonalds, but my kids have both enjoyed many a happy meal over the years, largely because of the toys, and each of them have eaten what they liked and discarded the rest. My 15 yr old hasn't eaten at McD's in years and my youngest has eaten a few bites of food from there a few times in the last 6 mos. Both of them would choose Subway over most places for fastfood, or a bento place or sushi place.
My goal for not eating at McD's myself was not to encourage my kids not to eat, it was because I can't eat most things from there. Which goes back to my own childhood and issues around food and not learning about, and not being able to listen to my own body's cues because my own parents were quite sure they new what was best and healthiest for my body.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kim meltzer
I've read some attachment theory on adoption. Some of the new families
would work together to nurture the big children as if they were babies.
Holding like a new born, feeding with a bottle, and cuddling. I read about
8-12 year olds being nurtured with bottles, and the parent and child worked
up to the intimacy over time. Perhaps the parent would sit near the child
while eating, and then start with an arm draped over child. As the duo
worked up trust and started to bond, the parent would eventually sit on the
couch with the child cuddling and feeding with a bottle. Doing this has
led to some amazing instances of healing for the child.
Often times, babies who had been put up for adoption were not nurtured at
all with affection and touch, and it is really important to help the child
form attachment bonds.
Read this link
http://www.attachmentparenting.org/support/articles/artadoption.php
I've read about great recoveries...I wish you good wishes, and you have done
a wonderful thing to give this child a home. I wish I could find that
article that I read about the older children and bottles---it was
fascinating and the website had all kinds of other helpful articles and
advice.
Kim
Baltimore
would work together to nurture the big children as if they were babies.
Holding like a new born, feeding with a bottle, and cuddling. I read about
8-12 year olds being nurtured with bottles, and the parent and child worked
up to the intimacy over time. Perhaps the parent would sit near the child
while eating, and then start with an arm draped over child. As the duo
worked up trust and started to bond, the parent would eventually sit on the
couch with the child cuddling and feeding with a bottle. Doing this has
led to some amazing instances of healing for the child.
Often times, babies who had been put up for adoption were not nurtured at
all with affection and touch, and it is really important to help the child
form attachment bonds.
Read this link
http://www.attachmentparenting.org/support/articles/artadoption.php
I've read about great recoveries...I wish you good wishes, and you have done
a wonderful thing to give this child a home. I wish I could find that
article that I read about the older children and bottles---it was
fascinating and the website had all kinds of other helpful articles and
advice.
Kim
Baltimore
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:32 PM, mizelenius <mizelenius@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> tiffermom@... wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I have 4 boys by birth. They have always been allowed to eat whenever
> and whatever they want. Food have not been an issue in our house. Now
> that being said we adopted a little girl at the age of 8. She has suffered
> starvation and food restrictions. Since she has been with us (two
> years) she has doubled her weight. She is now 5'2" and weighs 170lbs. I
> feel like I am hurting her by allowing her free reign over her intake.Â
>
> My take when it comes to this type of thing is that it isn't about food--
> it is about "enough." It is about not having had enough in her life . . .in
> her case, it sounds like she had far from enough of even the most basic of
> needs. She suffered for 6 critical years of her development, and has only
> been with you two-- not even half the time of what she endured.
>
> I would say, continue not focusing on food, her weight, etc. and instead
> remember that she is still going through and testing that "trust vs.
> mistrust stage" (according to Erikson, the very first conflict we deal with
> in life!) because her needs have not been met for so long. Anything you do
> in terms of restricting food is only going to set her back-- she will again
> fear that she will not get enough.
>
> -Elena
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 2, 2009, at 8:40 PM, Mandy Ray-Jones wrote:
destructive about it. When allowed to he made all sorts of deadly
choices. He also had a mother who saw her role as the keeper of his
health. The connection between the two is pretty obvious! He wasn't
fighting health. He was fighting for the freedom to decide. But since
his mom had limited his choices to her choices and bad choices, his
need to own his decisions made the bad choices the only other choice
he could make for himself.
Moms have helped their 3 yos with strategies on how to handle
allergies. It can become a natural part of eating to say "Let's check
the ingredients to see if there are peanuts in this," and then
helping a child acquire something that's as good or even better if it
does have peanuts. The more information kids gather, the more they
get a feel for what foods are typically safe and which need to be
checked.
The problem in these discussions is that controllers seem to limit
themselves to two choices: control or total child anarchy with the
powerless parent watching from the background wringing her hands.
There *are* more choices. Just because the suggestion is to give kids
choices it doesn't mean load the house up with snack foods! It means
writing down on the shopping list what the kids would like you to buy
for them. It means adopting the attitude of an adventurer about
trying different foods. It means helping them decide for themselves
what they like and don't like -- without Mom loading the experience
with messages about the choice she thinks is right.
If the kids want to try Oreos, say yes. You could buy several
different brands including organice and taste test. You could look at
the ingredients in an investigative way rather than a "look how much
junk is in this" way. I read ingredients in the store because they
are important to *my* choices. When comparing two items for myself, I
look for the fewest "unpronounceables." The attitude *for my choices*
has always been "Why choose something with all those chemicals when
you don't have to?"
Sometimes the answer is because there isn't something else like it.
Sometimes the answer is, let's try it and see. I do it because I
think it's practical and sensible. There's no fear involved.
Because I didn't make my daughter check the ingredients in her
choices, because it was a natural part of shopping and seemed to make
sense to her, she has often checked the ingredients and tended to
avoid chemicals when there were options. But she also doesn't feel
guilty if she does choose something with an ingredient list
practically too large for the package ;-)
be reading bodice busters because they simply aren't there."
"I meant that in my home as long as she's in my home, my wife won't
be watching secular TV because it simply isn't there."
Does that feel like a loving partnership? No matter how convinced
your husband is that those things are damaging, no matter how loving
he feels in protecting you from them, controlling them for someone
else doesn't feel like love. It feels like "I don't care what you
want. What I want for you is more important." "I don't trust that
you're strong enough to handle the world so I need to limit you to
what I think you're capable of handling."
of healthy eating, wouldn't knowing how to make choices that are
important to them be more helpful? Isn't exploring freely to discover
what they like and what they don't like a more useful life skill than
absorbing your beliefs about what's good for them?
keep that stuff around the house, not "we". Are you a monolithic
being so that when one person has a little, you all have a little?
Your kids are individuals. You're an individual. If all of you are
choosing a sweet when out of the house, then your attitude has turned
what could be a food to choose or not choose based on what someone
feels like into a desired treat that needs taken advantage of because
it's available right now. (That's not a bad or good thing, but
something to be aware of.)
tools of the devil? What if he might let you read a short story
outside the house under his supervision? What if when you went into
the book store, he steered you toward the safe alternatives: the
Christian versions of the genres you wanted to read?
At one time maps were marked with "Here there be dragons." (Or it
makes a good story, anyway ;-) It kept most people in line and "safe"
to believe that. But some set off on their own and found there
weren't dragons. And it's doubtful that they'd think kind thoughts of
those who wrote "Here there be dragons." Controlling ignoramuses
would be more like it ;-)
Your kids *will* meet plenty of seemly perfectly healthy kids who are
eating what you consider crap. What will your kids conclude from
that? That maybe mom isn't the expert that she thinks she is? Or
maybe that their own judgement is faulty and that experts have it all
sorted out so it's just easier to listen to the experts than to think
about things? (Kids in school often learn this lesson well!) Or
they'll feel guilty when they find they like some "crap" food the
kids give them? Or they'll feel the need to pass on the right way to
eat because obviously the kids' parents are clueless and don't care?
(Some kids have been told by fundamentalist kids that they're going
to hell for liking Harry Potter.)
That all seems extreme, but the extremes tend to illuminate the
feelings that rumble beneath the surface. When the world is divided
between good food and crap food, it's hard to avoid feeling some
guilt about eating crap! When it's all food and kids can decide
what's right for them right now, then make choices based on what
their body needs, not on what they've memorized that some expert
decided their body needs.
Joyce
> We use low glycemic sweeteners in our home. I feel thatI worked with a woman with a 20ish yo son who was diabetic and self-
> it's my job to keep him healthy and for him to not end up in a
> diabetic
> coma.
destructive about it. When allowed to he made all sorts of deadly
choices. He also had a mother who saw her role as the keeper of his
health. The connection between the two is pretty obvious! He wasn't
fighting health. He was fighting for the freedom to decide. But since
his mom had limited his choices to her choices and bad choices, his
need to own his decisions made the bad choices the only other choice
he could make for himself.
Moms have helped their 3 yos with strategies on how to handle
allergies. It can become a natural part of eating to say "Let's check
the ingredients to see if there are peanuts in this," and then
helping a child acquire something that's as good or even better if it
does have peanuts. The more information kids gather, the more they
get a feel for what foods are typically safe and which need to be
checked.
The problem in these discussions is that controllers seem to limit
themselves to two choices: control or total child anarchy with the
powerless parent watching from the background wringing her hands.
There *are* more choices. Just because the suggestion is to give kids
choices it doesn't mean load the house up with snack foods! It means
writing down on the shopping list what the kids would like you to buy
for them. It means adopting the attitude of an adventurer about
trying different foods. It means helping them decide for themselves
what they like and don't like -- without Mom loading the experience
with messages about the choice she thinks is right.
If the kids want to try Oreos, say yes. You could buy several
different brands including organice and taste test. You could look at
the ingredients in an investigative way rather than a "look how much
junk is in this" way. I read ingredients in the store because they
are important to *my* choices. When comparing two items for myself, I
look for the fewest "unpronounceables." The attitude *for my choices*
has always been "Why choose something with all those chemicals when
you don't have to?"
Sometimes the answer is because there isn't something else like it.
Sometimes the answer is, let's try it and see. I do it because I
think it's practical and sensible. There's no fear involved.
Because I didn't make my daughter check the ingredients in her
choices, because it was a natural part of shopping and seemed to make
sense to her, she has often checked the ingredients and tended to
avoid chemicals when there were options. But she also doesn't feel
guilty if she does choose something with an ingredient list
practically too large for the package ;-)
> I meant that in my home as long as they are in my home they won't"I meant that in my home as long as she's in my home, my wife won't
> be eating
> it simply because it's not here.
>
be reading bodice busters because they simply aren't there."
"I meant that in my home as long as she's in my home, my wife won't
be watching secular TV because it simply isn't there."
Does that feel like a loving partnership? No matter how convinced
your husband is that those things are damaging, no matter how loving
he feels in protecting you from them, controlling them for someone
else doesn't feel like love. It feels like "I don't care what you
want. What I want for you is more important." "I don't trust that
you're strong enough to handle the world so I need to limit you to
what I think you're capable of handling."
> It's true that I can't control whatRather than being let loose into the world with someone's checklist
> happens when they are out of my sight but it will be a while until
> I need to
> contend with that.
>
of healthy eating, wouldn't knowing how to make choices that are
important to them be more helpful? Isn't exploring freely to discover
what they like and what they don't like a more useful life skill than
absorbing your beliefs about what's good for them?
> which happens organically for our family since we just don't keepBe honest in your thoughts and thinking will be clearer. *You* don't
> that stuff
> around the house. If we are out and about we might have a little.
> As long
> as we don't make a big deal out of it, it's really a nonissue.
>
keep that stuff around the house, not "we". Are you a monolithic
being so that when one person has a little, you all have a little?
Your kids are individuals. You're an individual. If all of you are
choosing a sweet when out of the house, then your attitude has turned
what could be a food to choose or not choose based on what someone
feels like into a desired treat that needs taken advantage of because
it's available right now. (That's not a bad or good thing, but
something to be aware of.)
> Just maybe a little bargaining and aWhat if your husband were convinced that secular novels where the
> reminder that we want to stay healthy with our blood sugar and
> ALWAYS a safe
> alternative.
>
tools of the devil? What if he might let you read a short story
outside the house under his supervision? What if when you went into
the book store, he steered you toward the safe alternatives: the
Christian versions of the genres you wanted to read?
At one time maps were marked with "Here there be dragons." (Or it
makes a good story, anyway ;-) It kept most people in line and "safe"
to believe that. But some set off on their own and found there
weren't dragons. And it's doubtful that they'd think kind thoughts of
those who wrote "Here there be dragons." Controlling ignoramuses
would be more like it ;-)
Your kids *will* meet plenty of seemly perfectly healthy kids who are
eating what you consider crap. What will your kids conclude from
that? That maybe mom isn't the expert that she thinks she is? Or
maybe that their own judgement is faulty and that experts have it all
sorted out so it's just easier to listen to the experts than to think
about things? (Kids in school often learn this lesson well!) Or
they'll feel guilty when they find they like some "crap" food the
kids give them? Or they'll feel the need to pass on the right way to
eat because obviously the kids' parents are clueless and don't care?
(Some kids have been told by fundamentalist kids that they're going
to hell for liking Harry Potter.)
That all seems extreme, but the extremes tend to illuminate the
feelings that rumble beneath the surface. When the world is divided
between good food and crap food, it's hard to avoid feeling some
guilt about eating crap! When it's all food and kids can decide
what's right for them right now, then make choices based on what
their body needs, not on what they've memorized that some expert
decided their body needs.
Joyce
Mandy Ray-Jones
Thank you for these ideas and thoughts. I agree that I could start making
our eating choices more of a group effort. I certainly love the idea of
making reading the ingredients in order to to pick the healthiest
ingredients for our bodies with the children is a great idea. Trips to the
store do always include their choices but letting them help with the meal
planning and making a grocery list would be lots of fun and a great tool for
them. Lately I've been learning about safe alternative sweeteners and that
is certainly something they can help me with... taste tests and
experimenting is a fun idea! My son loves to make charts and that would be
a fun way to use charts. I have found myself making statements that are
simply not true and are scare tactics and I absolutely want to abolish that
behavior. I've gotten better but I need improvement. Hopefully I've not
ruined them for life!
our eating choices more of a group effort. I certainly love the idea of
making reading the ingredients in order to to pick the healthiest
ingredients for our bodies with the children is a great idea. Trips to the
store do always include their choices but letting them help with the meal
planning and making a grocery list would be lots of fun and a great tool for
them. Lately I've been learning about safe alternative sweeteners and that
is certainly something they can help me with... taste tests and
experimenting is a fun idea! My son loves to make charts and that would be
a fun way to use charts. I have found myself making statements that are
simply not true and are scare tactics and I absolutely want to abolish that
behavior. I've gotten better but I need improvement. Hopefully I've not
ruined them for life!
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:42 AM, kim meltzer <kimcronin.meltzer@...>wrote:
>
>
> I've read some attachment theory on adoption. Some of the new families
> would work together to nurture the big children as if they were babies.
> Holding like a new born, feeding with a bottle, and cuddling. I read about
> 8-12 year olds being nurtured with bottles, and the parent and child worked
> up to the intimacy over time. Perhaps the parent would sit near the child
> while eating, and then start with an arm draped over child. As the duo
> worked up trust and started to bond, the parent would eventually sit on the
> couch with the child cuddling and feeding with a bottle. Doing this has
> led to some amazing instances of healing for the child.
>
> Often times, babies who had been put up for adoption were not nurtured at
> all with affection and touch, and it is really important to help the child
> form attachment bonds.
>
> Read this link
> http://www.attachmentparenting.org/support/articles/artadoption.php
>
> I've read about great recoveries...I wish you good wishes, and you have
> done
> a wonderful thing to give this child a home. I wish I could find that
> article that I read about the older children and bottles---it was
> fascinating and the website had all kinds of other helpful articles and
> advice.
>
> Kim
> Baltimore
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:32 PM, mizelenius <mizelenius@...<mizelenius%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com><AlwaysLearning%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > tiffermom@... wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have 4 boys by birth. They have always been allowed to eat whenever
> > and whatever they want. Food have not been an issue in our house. Now
> > that being said we adopted a little girl at the age of 8. She has
> suffered
> > starvation and food restrictions. Since she has been with us (two
> > years) she has doubled her weight. She is now 5'2" and weighs 170lbs.Â
> I
> > feel like I am hurting her by allowing her free reign over her intake.Â
>
> >
> > My take when it comes to this type of thing is that it isn't about food--
> > it is about "enough." It is about not having had enough in her life . .
> .in
> > her case, it sounds like she had far from enough of even the most basic
> of
> > needs. She suffered for 6 critical years of her development, and has only
> > been with you two-- not even half the time of what she endured.
> >
> > I would say, continue not focusing on food, her weight, etc. and instead
> > remember that she is still going through and testing that "trust vs.
> > mistrust stage" (according to Erikson, the very first conflict we deal
> with
> > in life!) because her needs have not been met for so long. Anything you
> do
> > in terms of restricting food is only going to set her back-- she will
> again
> > fear that she will not get enough.
> >
> > -Elena
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
Mandy Ray-Jones
Artsy Mamas Executive Director and Founder
http://artsymamas.org/
Child of God, Supermom, Wife, Aspiring Natural Nutritionist, Truth Seeker,
Lover of Life, Friend, and Geeky Blogger
http://www.bonafidemama.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lalow66
Have you read Beyond Consequences, Logic and Control by Heather Forbes.
She also has a web site and a yahoo list. Might be helpful. Approaches these kinds of issues from an attachment view point.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?r=1&ISBN=9780977704002&ourl=Beyond-Consequences-Logic-and-Control%2FHeather-T-Forbes&cm_mmc=yahoossp-_-plp-_-books2-_-Beyond-Consequences-Logic-and-Control-9780977704002
She also has a web site and a yahoo list. Might be helpful. Approaches these kinds of issues from an attachment view point.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?r=1&ISBN=9780977704002&ourl=Beyond-Consequences-Logic-and-Control%2FHeather-T-Forbes&cm_mmc=yahoossp-_-plp-_-books2-_-Beyond-Consequences-Logic-and-Control-9780977704002
--- In [email protected], tiffermom@... wrote:
>
>
>
> I have 4 boys by birth. They have always been allowed to eat whenever and whatever they want. Food have not been an issue in our house. Now that being said we adopted a little girl at the age of 8. She has suffered starvation and food restrictions. Since she has been with us (two years) she has doubled her weight. She is now 5'2" and weighs 170lbs. I feel like I am hurting her by allowing her free reign over her intake.Â
>
>
>
> She is very sneaky with food. She takes food or drinks from other people. Example: We went to the movies with their Nana who bought drinks and sweets and popcorn for everyone. I looked over and saw her drinking from her Nana's cup several times. ( I did not acknowledge this to her)   If I get them something to share she gets extremely upset. Example: The other day we were out longer then I expected. I only had enough money to buy 2 sub sandwiches from Subway. There were 4 of us. I offered this choice to everyone and they all agreed. But then once inside when she really realized she was sharing ( I explained this in the car) she fell to pieces. She refused to make any choices. So I made the choices taking into consideration her likes and by the time we were in the car she was in tears. I was not mean to her and I stayed calm. She did eat her half of the sandwich. She has to control food for others too she will yell at our 5 year old for eating chips in the morning, I have always allowed chips in the morning.   We do not limit the kids candy after Halloween after a few days I have always put their left over candy into one bowl and that works for everyone except for her. She will get upset so last year I kept her candy separate and combined the others and she ate theirs till it was gone before going to hers. This created a situation where she had candy and no one else did. She likes to hold it over their heads.  This is the same for things like cereal too. Everyone will choose a cereal and she will pick something no one else likes and then will not even open it till all the other cereal is gone. I have thoughts of only letting her eat her choice but I think that is mean too. I would really like to defuse this situations. I am at a loss for what to do. I know that she is picking up negative attitude from me in this regard and that I think is due to the fact that I feel I have to protect the boys fare share.Â
>
>
>
> My thinking was that given every opportunity to control her own intake some of these behaviors would subside. The major improvement I have seen is she no longer eats till she throws up.  I would really like to hear what you all observe about this. Perhaps I need an attitude adjustment or maybe this will take more time that I thought. Has anyone else dealt with this type of behavior? I do not want her to grow up having food issues, and I especially do not want to be a person in her life to add or create food issues.Â
>
>
>
> Tiffani
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2009 1:15:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] How long did it take your kids to eat "real" Â food?
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> -=-How long did it take your kids to eat "real" food?-=-
>
> Thinking of some foods as "real" and others as any form of unreal is
> going to be as much a problem as dividing the world into fun and
> learning, as though they were separate things.
>
> A point like that shouldn't crush the feelings of anyone old enough to
> be a mother, or anyone bright enough to consider unschooling. A
> point like that can, and will, and does regularly help someone make
> another level toward "beating the game" of deschooling. It's not
> easy for people to recover from ten or twenty years of schooling, but
> people do it. They don't do it from being supported to stay where
> they are and be satisfied with muddly thinking and negativity, though.
>
> My children ate real food when they started nursing. They ate real
> food when they tasted mashed foods off the ends of people's fingers,
> or strained fruit. They ate real food when they tasted other people's
> food when they were toddlers but weren't forced to taste it, nor
> pressed to finish it. They have always eaten real food, their whole
> lives.
>
> Stories of hundreds of kids are here and at links from this:
> http://sandradodd.com/food
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- Thanks, though, for making me realize that
someone I really looked up to prior to this is actually only looking
for
apostles to nod on cue.-=-
While we're being analytical anyway, the first part is manipulative,
and it's the kind of thinking that screws parents up in the area of
seeing their kids clearly and lovingly.
If a parent says "I really loved you (to the child) until you (touched
your weenie/told a fib/were gay)." It's "I loved the image I had of
you but now you've strayed from it."
And that person wasn't even my mom, and I didn't even fib, touch my
weenie or be gay.
So if I'm only worthy of "being looked up to" when I fulfill the
fantasy image each individual reader has of me, then there's no value
in integrity or honesty. But each person who decides what and whom
to respect (look up to) or to consider sensible is deciding on his or
her own. It's a decision we each make.
There are people in the world I think are awesome, and some I think
are kooks. My admiration of a person is non-transferable, though.
Others will admire or not based on their own needs and values and
individual principles.
So that's about the first part. It says more about the one who was
looking up than the one who was looked up to, and it was an attempt
(not conscious, but it's good to see what we're doing unconsciously,
out of habit, too) to get me to back down, to apologize, to change in
hopes that one person would continue to "really look up to me."
So the second part:
What on earth would I do with apostles nodding on cue!?? Seriously.
What good does it do Keith or Marty or Kirby or Holly for people to
"nod" at some great distance where I can't see them? What good could
it possibly do me!? I'm quite past the stage of finding my worth
in the acceptance of the other teens. Been there. Lived through
it. And in my 20's and 30's, it was kinda nice to have people name
me as someone who had helped organize an event, or someone who worked
well with others on the job. But even then I was starting to see that
those were flashes in the pan of life, and not what made me reliable
or "nice."
If everyone on this list decided that enough unschooling words had
flowed and they could go and just live their unschooling lives, and if
every week ten or twelve people dropped off, instead of joined, I
wouldn't cry myself to sleep even ONCE! If I came in one day and I
was the only one here, I'd just think "Cool! Another project
finished." I'd delete the list and go collect seeds in the yard, or
go to a movie with Marty or bake a cake or something. I really do
have a life. I had a big life before I had children, and I'm sure
I'll have a rich, full life when they've all moved away. I had great
unschooling discussions on bulletin boards online when I first got a
*Prodigy e-mail account, and I'll probably keep up with my friends and
kids online in whatever way is provided in ten or twenty years from
now. No one has ever been court-ordered to go on line and discuss
unschooling. Each person made a choice to join this list and makes a
choice to read the posts or not. Each person who writes a post has
other choices right then: Edit or not? Send or not? Follow up with
a "Sorry; what was I thinking!?" or not?
Life is about making choices.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
someone I really looked up to prior to this is actually only looking
for
apostles to nod on cue.-=-
While we're being analytical anyway, the first part is manipulative,
and it's the kind of thinking that screws parents up in the area of
seeing their kids clearly and lovingly.
If a parent says "I really loved you (to the child) until you (touched
your weenie/told a fib/were gay)." It's "I loved the image I had of
you but now you've strayed from it."
And that person wasn't even my mom, and I didn't even fib, touch my
weenie or be gay.
So if I'm only worthy of "being looked up to" when I fulfill the
fantasy image each individual reader has of me, then there's no value
in integrity or honesty. But each person who decides what and whom
to respect (look up to) or to consider sensible is deciding on his or
her own. It's a decision we each make.
There are people in the world I think are awesome, and some I think
are kooks. My admiration of a person is non-transferable, though.
Others will admire or not based on their own needs and values and
individual principles.
So that's about the first part. It says more about the one who was
looking up than the one who was looked up to, and it was an attempt
(not conscious, but it's good to see what we're doing unconsciously,
out of habit, too) to get me to back down, to apologize, to change in
hopes that one person would continue to "really look up to me."
So the second part:
What on earth would I do with apostles nodding on cue!?? Seriously.
What good does it do Keith or Marty or Kirby or Holly for people to
"nod" at some great distance where I can't see them? What good could
it possibly do me!? I'm quite past the stage of finding my worth
in the acceptance of the other teens. Been there. Lived through
it. And in my 20's and 30's, it was kinda nice to have people name
me as someone who had helped organize an event, or someone who worked
well with others on the job. But even then I was starting to see that
those were flashes in the pan of life, and not what made me reliable
or "nice."
If everyone on this list decided that enough unschooling words had
flowed and they could go and just live their unschooling lives, and if
every week ten or twelve people dropped off, instead of joined, I
wouldn't cry myself to sleep even ONCE! If I came in one day and I
was the only one here, I'd just think "Cool! Another project
finished." I'd delete the list and go collect seeds in the yard, or
go to a movie with Marty or bake a cake or something. I really do
have a life. I had a big life before I had children, and I'm sure
I'll have a rich, full life when they've all moved away. I had great
unschooling discussions on bulletin boards online when I first got a
*Prodigy e-mail account, and I'll probably keep up with my friends and
kids online in whatever way is provided in ten or twenty years from
now. No one has ever been court-ordered to go on line and discuss
unschooling. Each person made a choice to join this list and makes a
choice to read the posts or not. Each person who writes a post has
other choices right then: Edit or not? Send or not? Follow up with
a "Sorry; what was I thinking!?" or not?
Life is about making choices.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Which goes back to my own childhood and issues around food and not
learning about, and not being able to listen to my own body's cues
because my own parents were quite sure they new what was best and
healthiest for my body.=-
I remember the school cafeteria and kids being made to eat canned
spinach, and to drink all their milk, and to eat stewed plums and
(because we were in New Mexico) enchiladas, which I thought were
awesome, but any kids who were squeamish about ground beef or didn't
do well with cheese or oil would've been made ill.
Someone was sure because a book said so that milk was crucial for
children and there was no thought that some would gag and some would
get the runs later, or that the stress of being pressed to choke down
scary food or else they couldn't go out and play was NOT good for
people.
It's only fairly recently that people stopped telling pregnant women
that they had to drink milk so they could make milk. How nonsensical
is that!? But because doctors and nurses were saying it, people took
it as scientific fact.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
learning about, and not being able to listen to my own body's cues
because my own parents were quite sure they new what was best and
healthiest for my body.=-
I remember the school cafeteria and kids being made to eat canned
spinach, and to drink all their milk, and to eat stewed plums and
(because we were in New Mexico) enchiladas, which I thought were
awesome, but any kids who were squeamish about ground beef or didn't
do well with cheese or oil would've been made ill.
Someone was sure because a book said so that milk was crucial for
children and there was no thought that some would gag and some would
get the runs later, or that the stress of being pressed to choke down
scary food or else they couldn't go out and play was NOT good for
people.
It's only fairly recently that people stopped telling pregnant women
that they had to drink milk so they could make milk. How nonsensical
is that!? But because doctors and nurses were saying it, people took
it as scientific fact.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]