tiffermomof5

I copied this from a post back in Oct 08.

YES, unschooling would be great for a child who is for whatever
reasons "behind the curve" in some area, but the parent can't just
utter the word "unschooling" and expect the child to change and start
learning all kinds of cool things on her own. The parents will need
to become unschooling parents...........................
Sandra


I want to learn how to be an unschooling parent.

I have 5 kids. 4 boys by birth and 1 girl who we adopted almost 2 years
ago.

My daughter was 8 when she came to us. She is behind in many ways (she
had many homes and at least 10 schools by the time she came here) and I
am trying to become the best parent I can for her. The boys have come
to unschooling completely different then she has. They seem to be
thriving where she seems to be doing something different. I do not want
to debate the tv issue, I want to understand it. She LOVES tv.
Sometime I feel she just looses herself in it. I am wondering if I
completely let go and embrace her television watching will she get lost
in there? I am trying to release a few fears in regards to this.
Meeting Pams daughter helped with that some. She has a hard time making
friends with other children. She is supper sweet to little kids, she
wants to be a teenager but she pesters them so much they get annoyed and
she does not seem to fit in with kids near her age. I am not sure if I
should worry about this or not. I am trying to allow the unschooling
philosiphy to wash over me. I have been trying to work on my
relationships with my kids. Thinking of them as their own persons
growing up with my help. My biggest problem is parenting my daughter.
We are SO different. We do not like the same things. She is really
into fashion and tv and I am totally not. How can I come to her and be
a better Mom. How do I sort this out?

I am sorry if this sounds so jumbled. I am just seaking guidance.

Tiffani



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Aug 20, 2009, at 2:34 AM, tiffermomof5 wrote:

> I do not want
> to debate the tv issue, I want to understand it. She LOVES tv.
> Sometime I feel she just looses herself in it.

Actually 10ish to 12ish is a very typical time to get fascinated by
TV. The preteen years are a time of transition between kid interests
and more grow up interests. TV and video games and what looks like
very "shallow" interests like fashion and beauty and pre-teen social
interactions (like in the Nickelodeon and Disney shows) seem to fit
their needs.

It won't last forever! (Or at least not in that form.)

But the best thing you can do is step back away from trying to mold
or steer her and be a friend. Find out what she likes about her
favorite programs. Just ask conversationally. Don't look for her to
convince you they're worthwhile! She's already showing you by
watching them that they are worthwhile to the person she is at this
time. Watch some with her so you know who the characters are and
their relationships with each other so you'll understand when she
tells you something.

> I am wondering if I
> completely let go and embrace her television watching will she get
> lost
> in there?
>


The only kids I've known who got lost in TV were the ones who used it
as an escape from life. If she feels you're someone she wants to
escape from -- critical, watching and judging what she does (even in
silence), pulling or pushing her to do something else -- she could
retreat to the TV where she's accepted for who she is, where her
humor and interests are fed and supported and she's not seen as not
as good as her brothers.

(You may not put it into words like that but if she's ever heard an
encouraging tone in your voice when the boys asked to do something
and a sigh or a flat okay when she wants to do something (when you
wished she'd pick something that seemed more worthy of her time) then
she knows. Kids pick up a huge amount from tone and body language
that we don't realize we're saying.)

> She is supper sweet to little kids, she
> wants to be a teenager but she pesters them so much they get
> annoyed and
> she does not seem to fit in with kids near her age. I am not sure if I
> should worry about this or not.
>

That seems not unusual! She's in between child and teen and doesn't
fit into either camp at the moment. Teachers will tell you the
preteen years are a holding pen. ;-) They really don't know what to
do with middle schoolers because they're all over the board in
interests and abilities so it's hard to reach them. So it's not
unusual that preteens wouldn't be able to relate to each other. (And
schooled teens don't want "kids" hanging around so it would be an
unusually socially savvy preteen who could fit in.)

> My biggest problem is parenting my daughter.
> We are SO different. We do not like the same things. She is really
> into fashion and tv and I am totally not. How can I come to her and be
> a better Mom. How do I sort this out?
>

By not worrying that the world she's exploring right now is where
she's headed for the rest of her life! By joining her and exploring
it with her, at least enough to have a conversation with her. What if
she were into motocross or rodeos or existential plays or Mandarin
poetry or ... How would you support those interests that were far
outside your own?

I suspect your fear that if you support "shallow, unworthy" interests
you'll be creating a shallow person might be getting in your way of
embracing them. What you're in effect doing, though, is driving her
to them because those outlets support who she is when you don't.
They're feeling more like a friend than you are. That sounds harsh
but she can only react to how she feels not how you want her to feel
or how you want her to understand how you feel. If the TV is feeling
more supportive and friendly, it's where she'll turn for comfort.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

goodgirl659

I am in exactly the same boat you are in. My 9 year old is a great kid. She had always been behind in speaking. We had even had hearing test done on her when she was a few years old. She would just zone us out. They told me that she had selective hearing and would just hear what she wanted. That she could just block out what she didnt want to hear. Well you can imagine homeschooling her. She forgets things right after I teach them and I can tell she just blocks me out. So this year I have tried unschooling with her and she is just not interested in anything other than watching tv or movies. I am at a lost with her. I have even bought educational movies but she knows what I am trying to do and doesnt want to watch it.


--- In [email protected], "tiffermomof5" <tiffermom@...> wrote:
>
>
> I copied this from a post back in Oct 08.
>
> YES, unschooling would be great for a child who is for whatever
> reasons "behind the curve" in some area, but the parent can't just
> utter the word "unschooling" and expect the child to change and start
> learning all kinds of cool things on her own. The parents will need
> to become unschooling parents...........................
> Sandra
>
>
> I want to learn how to be an unschooling parent.
>
> I have 5 kids. 4 boys by birth and 1 girl who we adopted almost 2 years
> ago.
>
> My daughter was 8 when she came to us. She is behind in many ways (she
> had many homes and at least 10 schools by the time she came here) and I
> am trying to become the best parent I can for her. The boys have come
> to unschooling completely different then she has. They seem to be
> thriving where she seems to be doing something different. I do not want
> to debate the tv issue, I want to understand it. She LOVES tv.
> Sometime I feel she just looses herself in it. I am wondering if I
> completely let go and embrace her television watching will she get lost
> in there? I am trying to release a few fears in regards to this.
> Meeting Pams daughter helped with that some. She has a hard time making
> friends with other children. She is supper sweet to little kids, she
> wants to be a teenager but she pesters them so much they get annoyed and
> she does not seem to fit in with kids near her age. I am not sure if I
> should worry about this or not. I am trying to allow the unschooling
> philosiphy to wash over me. I have been trying to work on my
> relationships with my kids. Thinking of them as their own persons
> growing up with my help. My biggest problem is parenting my daughter.
> We are SO different. We do not like the same things. She is really
> into fashion and tv and I am totally not. How can I come to her and be
> a better Mom. How do I sort this out?
>
> I am sorry if this sounds so jumbled. I am just seaking guidance.
>
> Tiffani
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-They seem to be
thriving where she seems to be doing something different. I do not want
to debate the tv issue, I want to understand it. She LOVES tv.
Sometime I feel she just looses herself in it.-=-

My cousin Nadine was eight when she came to live with us in New
Mexico. She had been removed from her mother's custody and was going
to go into the Texas foster care system. She was at the Lena Polk
home, basically an orphanage. Her older sister, Nada, who was closer
to my age, already lived with us.

Nadine watched TV differently from the rest of us for years. She
couldn't tell cartoons from live action at first. She would be so
engrossed in the TV that she couldn't hear someone in the same room
saying her name.

It seemed to me that that was her "I would rather not be here"
place. I don't blame her.

We recently took in two cats. I like them. They almost like me. It's
been over two months, though, and they still clearly would rather be
back where they used to live. For two years they lived with a woman
who baby-talked them constantly, and they were home. Now they're in a
bigger house, there's a dog, two other cats (they've split the house,
territorially, and I feed them in two different places).

My choices are to accept that and keep being nice, or to become
threatening and punitive and shaming. I could deprive them of the
room they're used to by closing it up but then they'd be afraid and
probably run away.

-=- She is supper sweet to little kids, she
wants to be a teenager but she pesters them so much they get annoyed and
she does not seem to fit in with kids near her age. I am not sure if I
should worry about this or not.-=-

Don't worry, because the worry doesn't help. The first time my son,
Kirby, hung out with a group of kids all his same age was when he was
15, was at an anime convention in another state (with his older
friends) and met up with a group of high school kids from Denver. He
would've been in their grade at school, if he had lived there, so they
welcomed him into their group. He was excited about it, and even
went to Denver months later to visit them. In person away from a
convention, though, they weren't as fun. He was the same both times,
but they had been putting on some sparkle for the occasion. He still
did have fun with them, but was disappointed.

Having same-age friends isn't a worthy goal in itself. What school
does is unnatural and harmful to the growth of human behavior, when
they put 30, 120, however many ten-year-olds all together.

-=-Thinking of them as their own persons
growing up with my help. My biggest problem is parenting my daughter.
We are SO different. We do not like the same things. She is really
into fashion and tv and I am totally not. How can I come to her and be
a better Mom. How do I sort this out?-=-

I have long advocated treating children as a guest in one's home, and
when the child is more foreign (genetically, and maybe culturally)
than your own children, it's doubly applicable. She would probably
rather be with her own parents. You don't need to talk about that
with her, but it would be good to keep it in mind. When she sees her
brothers with you and their dad, she must be jealous. I know my
cousins were. We were with our real parents; they were not. No
amount of pretending or regulating or stating that we were all equal
could ever have made it so in their minds, especially Nadine's, who
always felt she was there against her will. Nada had chosen to stay
with us several times, which turned into permanent gradually, but
Nadine had always wanted to stay with her mom.

Things that might help you while you're making this transition are:
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit
http://sandradodd.com/tv (you've probably already looked there, but
poke around at the links)
http://sandradodd.com/obsessions
http://sandradodd.com/obsessions/feedpassions

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-They told me that she had selective hearing and would just hear
what she wanted. That she could just block out what she didnt want to
hear.-=-

That was an official diagnosis, "selective hearing"? "Selective
hearing" is an insult, not a medical condition.

-=-Well you can imagine homeschooling her. She forgets things right
after I teach them and I can tell she just blocks me out. -=-

Poor thing.

Was she adopted too? You said "exactly the same boat." Exactly the
same not-a-genetic-match boat? Or the same preference for TV?

-=-So this year I have tried unschooling with her and she is just not
interested in anything other than watching tv or movies. I am at a
lost with her. I have even bought educational movies but she knows
what I am trying to do and doesnt want to watch it.
-=-

Please read again, twice or more, what Joyce wrote, then. You've
made an antagonistic situation. She and her interests are pitted
against you and "education."

For unschooling to work, the parent has to change. No options; no outs.
You, the mom, *must* if you want to unschool (as opposed to "trying
unschooling"), learn to see the value and the learning in gathering
information from any kind of source and fitting it into one's own
model of the universe. She won't learn the same things from a movie
you do, even if you watch it together and discuss it. She has
different interests and knowledge and she will glean different bits of
"news" and samples and images and sounds to remember than you will.

-=-. She had always been behind in speaking. We had even had hearing
test done on her when she was a few years old. She would just zone us
out. They told me that she had selective hearing and would just hear
what she wanted. That she could just block out what she didnt want to
hear.-=-

Had you asked us when that was current, I would've said to stop
talking to her. Use more non-verbal, gentle communication as you
would with a baby. If she's ignoring you, she's tired of hearing the
noise. So stop the noise. If she were cold, you'd cover her up. If
she were hungry, you would give her food. But with her showing with
all her baby might that she didn't want to hear you, you kept talking,
it seems.

Possibly she's an introvert in a household of extroverts. If so,
give her more time alone. Don't ask her so many questions. Wait
until she's ready to ask or talk.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

(You may not put it into words like that but if she's ever heard an
encouraging tone in your voice when the boys asked to do something
and a sigh or a flat okay when she wants to do something (when you
wished she'd pick something that seemed more worthy of her time) then
she knows. Kids pick up a huge amount from tone and body language
that we don't realize we're saying.)

This made me cry.  I know I do this.  I always question why she asks for things.  No matter what it is.  You know I fell completely in love with her at first sight.  Now I am learning how to deal with who she really is.  I had unfair visions of what it would be like to have a daughter.  She is not here to fill a need in me she is here for me to help raise and nurture.  Sometimes I forget that especially when times are difficult. 

What you're in effect doing, though, is driving her
to them because those outlets support who she is when you don't.
They're feeling more like a friend than you are. That sounds harsh
but she can only react to how she feels not how you want her to feel
or how you want her to understand how you feel. If the TV is feeling
more supportive and friendly, it's where she'll turn for comfort.



Thank you Joyce I needed to hear this.



Tiffani










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Thank you Sandra,



Having same-age friends isn't a worthy goal in itself. What school
does is unnatural and harmful to the growth of human behavior, when
they put 30, 120, however many ten-year-olds all together.



I agree that what school does is unnatural.  I just worry because she doesnt seem to be making any real friends.  Her friends are more like somtimes friends.  She get upset when the brothers have someone to go do something with but she doesnt.  I do try to do fun things with just her and I but I assume it is not the same as having a best friend.



 She would probably
rather be with her own parents. You don't need to talk about that
with her, but it would be good to keep it in mind. When she sees her
brothers with you and their dad, she must be jealous. I know my
cousins were.



I know this is very true.  She has actually stated this to me once.  We were outside and talking to our 7yo son and laughing and hugging.  She was watching from around the corner.  My first reaction was she was being sneaky.  When I confronted her I was upset because she wouldn't tell me what she was doing.  Then she finally said she was jealous of him and she didnt want to interupt because she didnt want to take the time away from him.  This is her favorite brother.  My heart aches for her.  I am very conflicted inside in regards to her.  Sometime I treat her in a way I would never treat my kids.  Why is that.  I dont want to be that way and I find myself very stressed over the whole thing.  Then it makes me even more impatient.  My friends will say well she is better off with you on your worst day then she was before on her best day.  That is not what I want for her JUST better then what she had.  I want her to get the upbringing she deserves.



Tiffani












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-- I just worry because she doesnt seem to be making any real
friends. Her friends are more like somtimes friends.-=-

If she were in school, her friends would be school friends. Lunchtime
friends. Maybe not "real friends."

-=- I do try to do fun things with just her and I but I assume it is
not the same as having a best friend.
-=-

If you're running a dialog about how she should have real friends, but
you'll hang around with her until she does (even if you're running it
in your mind), she might rather be by herself.

Don't try to do fun things. DO fun things.

-=-She was watching from around the corner. My first reaction was she
was being sneaky. When I confronted her I was upset because she
wouldn't tell me what she was doing. -=-

You were upset more than she was, it seems. She needs a trusting,
safe, warm place, not a place that sees her as uncooperative and
sneaky, if you can manage to change any of those factors or postures.

-=-Sometime I treat her in a way I would never treat my kids. Why is
that-=-

Because she's adopted. She's not your biological child. For all the
non-political-correctness of it, there is and always will be and
couldn't help but be a difference.

Please don't fail to spend time with your boys, one-on-one, and times
when their sister isn't there. Speaking as a biological child (one of
two) who was crowded by two others, it's not nice to say "She
shouldn't be here," but the feeling can take up a lot of space. And
the care of the other kids (half the kids in the family, for ten years
or so) took money, time, space, attention, emotion...

-=My friends will say well she is better off with you on your worst
day then she was before on her best day. That is not what I want for
her JUST better then what she had. I want her to get the upbringing
she deserves. -=-

"Deserves" in what way? Be clear with your thoughts and words.
Don't keep your boys from having the upbringing they are entitled to
for having been born and survived in your care. They are with their
parents. Be sure to be there.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-My cousin Nadine was eight when she came to live with us in New
Mexico.=-

I was eight. She was six, nearly seven. Wow. Poor thing. I do
feel sorry for her, thinking back, but she was mean to the rest of
us. I remember her crying, and me having no idea of what a nice
thing to say might be. My mom didn't coach us well for that!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 8/19/2009 11:34 PM, tiffermomof5 wrote:
> I am wondering if I
> completely let go and embrace her television watching will she get lost
> in there?

What does that mean? I'm not understanding what you actually fear might
happen. Can you be more specific?

We could help you get into fashion in really fun ways -- like TONIGHT!
Project Runway comes back on the air tonight - we are SO excited - can't
wait. I am so NOT into fashion - you cannot possibly be LESS interested
in fashion than I am. But Project Runway was my introduction to how much
fun it can be. Ren (on this list) was m introduction to how artistic
make up is - her unabashed enjoyment of it is very contagious. And,
getting involved in theater got me even more interested in fashion and
make up.

Instead of making a point of your differences, your job as unschooling
mom is to support HERS. If she's interested in fashion, then that's what
you support.

We used to have these fashion plates that the kids LOVED to use to
design clothing - here is a picture of what we had, you'll have to
google around to find them, but I highly suggest getting your hands on
them - my kids played and played and played with them!
<http://www.inthe80s.com/toys/image.php?image=http://www.inthe80s.com/toys/images/user-image-1179532673.jpg>

Maybe get In-Style magazine - my kids like it better than any other
fashion magazines - and make collages or artist trading cards from them.
Get her her own make-up box and have lots of fun putting make up on each
other.

Embellished clothing is SO much fun - help her sew trim onto a pair of
jeans, decorate t-shirt and caps, etc. Again, google around to find out
more about embellished clothing.

Go to fashion shows - seriously, they are so fun. We went several times
to American Girl Doll fashion shows and a couple of times to others.

Take a look at the Girl Scout books - you don't have to buy one, just
look at the activities that they have for the fashion-related try-its
and badges and interest projects - that'll give you some good ideas, too.

I feel like your question indicates a little "missing of the point" of
unschooling - so what I'm saying is, focus on your daughter's interests
and support them - put your energy into that, the rest will take care of
itself.

-pam



-pam

jenstarc4

My biggest problem is parenting my daughter.
> We are SO different. We do not like the same things. She is really
> into fashion and tv and I am totally not. How can I come to her and be
> a better Mom. How do I sort this out?
>


This makes sense to me, given that you have thus far raised boys.
You've built your life around boy world. I wonder sometimes what my
life would've been like if I'd had boys or brothers. I just had a
conversation about boy underwear, in which, I knew nothing about, except
for what I know about my husband. I imagine that if I'd had boys, I'd
be way more into boy things and supporting boyish interests.

Were you a girl who ever liked fashion? If you were, remember what it
felt like and delve into your own girlhood. I have 2 girls that are
both into fashion. Their fashion is totally different, so is their
musical choices and tv choices. There are things that I like and
dislike about both of their choices, but, like all things, I try to see
what they like in it and see it from their eyes. It allows me to
appreciate things that I would otherwise not be into at all.

I went through this with horror movies. I've watched more horror movies
in the last couple of years than I ever have in my entire lifetime.
I've come to an appreciation for them. I see what my daughter sees in
them, what she likes and dislikes about each and everyone of them.
There are still some that I don't know that I'll ever appreciate and
that's ok. I never would've been able to make that distinction if I'd
never delved into them. I do not like sadistic torture movies. I'm
fine with slasher and gore and all kinds of chills and thrills, but
sadistic torture is way to hard for me to watch, so I pass on those.

You don't need to like everything your kids are into, what you need to
do, is be open and receptive to what they are into. Be the mom they can
talk to about their passions and listen enough to have an intelligent
conversation about those passions. If your daughter likes fashion, it
doesn't mean that you have to start accessorizing your own wardrobe, it
means making trips to the mall and window shopping, looking at fashion
magazines, watching "what not to wear", people watching, thrift store
shopping, maybe even sewing. Fashion is very interesting and has a lot
of history. What people wear and when and why is very fascinating.
There are some really cool fashion books out there. Along with the
underwear conversation, we also talked about cultural gender colors.
All of that is fashion.

jenstarc4

>>>She forgets things right after I teach them and I can tell she just
blocks me out. >>>

That's not unusual at all! If you aren't interested in something that
someone else is telling you, you'd tune them out and politely nod your
head, or try really hard to hear what they are saying, simply to have it
all go out the other side of your brain. I you want to have a
relationship with someone, find things in common, or find things the
other person is into, talk, explore, don't try to insert knowledge into
the other person. You can't anyway, if we could do that to children,
then schools would have a 100% success rate. Teachers learn all kinds
of tricks to get knowledge to "stick" long enough for kids to pass tests
to get enough funding to support their salaries.

If I met someone in real life who tried to do that to me, and I have met
many, school teacher only being some of them, I don't tend to stick
around long enough to really get to know the person. Your child is a
person, not unlike all the other people out there in the world. Your
child is more precious to you than any other person in the world. Don't
treat her as if you are bigger and better and more knowledgable, treat
her like you would a friend who you are intensely interested in getting
to know better.

jenstarc4

>
> I agree that what school does is unnatural. I just worry because
she doesnt seem to be making any real friends. Her friends are more
like somtimes friends. She get upset when the brothers have someone
to go do something with but she doesnt. I do try to do fun things
with just her and I but I assume it is not the same as having a best
friend.
>
>


For many years, I was Chamille's mostly companion. While she longed for
other friends and would be brave enough to seek them out, it almost
always didn't fit. She has plenty of friends now, and plenty of people
that would like to be her friend, but sometimes she'll still choose my
company over them. Even though it felt desperate at times, she's 15 and
isn't desperate, she's selective about who she lets into her life and
who she doesn't. All it took was one available friend, just one, and
even though it didn't always last, having one friend at any given moment
in time allowed her to feel confident enough to meet other people. Even
when she didn't have a friend available, she liked my company and spent
time with me.

[email protected]

On 8/19/2009 11:34 PM, tiffermomof5 wrote:
> I am wondering if I
> completely let go and embrace her television watching will she get lost
> in there?

>What does that mean? I'm not understanding what you actually fear might
>happen. Can you be more specific?



When we brought her home she would tell other people that she was Miley Cirus.  She pretended to be Hannah Montana all the time.  I was not at all use to this kind of intense pretending.  She picks up on all the attitudes and personalities that she sees in her shows.  At first I felt I had to fix this.  I would restrict her tv then she would sneak it anytime I turned my back.  Also I never restricted the boys so it was really weird to restrict her.  Now I have relaxed and I am not totally there yet but I have improved a lot.  She no longer says she is so and so, but I guess that would be the fear that is dwelling in me now.  That she will live in the tv and not out here with us.  But as I have been reading all the responses you have all given I think that I have some work to do on me, and leave her be.  I guess I am going to learn more about tv shows.  Who knows maybe she will introduce me to something great.



Tonight I am going to watch Project Runway that will probably blow her away.  To someone eles who asked I have never been into fashion or make-up.  Just the basics jeans and t-shirt. 



Dont worry about to much about the boys my hubby and I take turns doing things with each child alone.  Being in such a big family we feel that is very important.  Plus we are both the only child in our families. 

Thank you all so much for your insight.






 



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 8/20/2009 5:05 PM, tiffermom@... wrote:
> I guess that would be the fear that is dwelling in me now. That she will live in the tv and not out here with us.
Don't use phrasing like that. "Live in the tv". What? She's going to
empty it out and climb in and make that her bedroom? It is scary-tactics
type of talk - it doesn't help you think more clearly.

Did you mean to say she might forget who she really is and start
thinking she really IS Hannah Montana? That she'd become psychotic? Is
that your real fear?

> But as I have been reading all the responses you have all given I think that I have some work to do on me, and leave her be..

Do not "leave her be." That's not unschooling; that is neglect.

> I guess I am going to learn more about tv shows. Who knows maybe she will introduce me to something great.
>

I can almost guarantee you'll learn something great if you get involved
and support her interests. Ask for help in brainstorming ways to support
her interests - because i get the feeling that is the real problem
you're having when you say her interests are so different than yours -
it means you don't have a wealth of immediate ideas for supporting hers,
right?

-pam

Robin Krest

"When we brought her home she would tell other people that she was Miley Cirus.  She pretended to be Hannah Montana all the time.  I was not at all use to this kind of intense pretending.  She picks up on all the attitudes and personalities that she sees in her shows."


When I was a kid my best friend and I lived as different people. I was Alexandria Julianne Ramsay, AKA Alec. We owned horse farms and raced in the major horse races. We WERE these people, we played this game with model horses, bikes, pretend horses. We rode horses to school (our bikes), we rode pretend horses around the neighborhood and playground, we raced them in the Kentucky Derby (I won once). All this stemmed from the Black Stallion books. We also read and reenacted Star Wars a dozen or more times.

I did the same thing with TV. I pretended I was in Battlestar Galactica (the original TV series), all kinds of pretend play. There were other shows, of course, but I remember that one 'cause I saved up my money and bought a cardboard replica of the control system of a fighter to play with in my room.

My son pretends to be a Baby Blue Girl Kitty. Last year it was more often and more intense, we called him by that name, I spoke to him in meows as well as human speech. He has been a Spider Rider, Kung Fu Panda, the Avatar, pokemon, and more.

Now that I am grown up I do role playing games. I think of it as a way for me to try out different aspects of my personality that I do not get to access as much in daily life. Seriously, how much use do I have for a Mobster or a Tesla-Welder wielding master lockpicker and thief in real life? Not much, but they sure are fun to be for pretend.

Robin K.







____________________________________________________________
Need cash? Click to get a loan.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFRc9jLOZ9xKDyMoAQkLt2wCJD15ttNiFOxvncwldkSWuod6E0tPK/

Pam Sorooshian

On 8/20/2009 5:54 PM, Robin Krest wrote:
> "When we brought her home she would tell other people that she was Miley Cirus. She pretended to be Hannah Montana all the time. I was not at all use to this kind of intense pretending. She picks up on all the attitudes and personalities that she sees in her shows."
>
Oh - yeah. I forgot to address this point...I have three daughters and
they were WAY into pretending they were other people. I encouraged it -
helped them with props and costumes - called them the name they'd chosen.

This little girl probably doesn't have pretend-play partners - with four
older brothers. Mom - I think you should play along as MUCH as you can.
And find some other little girls who love Hannah Montana and all that
stuff for her to play with.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

Holly pretended to be "Baby Annie Mae" sometimes for me, when I wished
I had another baby and was past the point. I would treat her like a
baby, and she would act like a baby. It went on for years. It was
sweet for both of us.

Sandra

[email protected]

>Do not "leave her be." That's not unschooling; that is neglect.



I do not mean this the way it sounded.  I mean leave her be as in not harrass her because I feel she is watching to much tv.



>Ask for help in brainstorming ways to support
>her interests - because i get the feeling that is the real problem
>you're having when you say her interests are so different than yours -
>it means you don't have a wealth of immediate ideas for supporting hers,
>right?


I think you really hit the nail on the head.  I know she would like to re-invent clothes.  When I see a shirt I just see a shirt.  How can I help her re-invent it.  Do I give her gems and a glue gun and sit with her and see what happens.  Do I get a pattern?  She doesnt seem to like little kits.  She stock piles them so that is not what she wants.  She is extremely creative.  I think I have answered my own question.  I just had a thought of gathering up supplies and plain shirts and start there with her imagination.  I wonder what she would come up with.



Do any of you have some ideas to get us started?



Tiffani

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pam Sorooshian" <pamsoroosh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:49:14 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Learning to unschool a large family

 






On 8/20/2009 5:05 PM, tiffermom@... wrote:
> I guess that would be the fear that is dwelling in me now. That she will live in the tv and not out here with us.
Don't use phrasing like that. "Live in the tv". What? She's going to
empty it out and climb in and make that her bedroom? It is scary-tactics
type of talk - it doesn't help you think more clearly.

Did you mean to say she might forget who she really is and start
thinking she really IS Hannah Montana? That she'd become psychotic? Is
that your real fear?

> But as I have been reading all the responses you have all given I think that I have some work to do on me, and leave her be..

Do not "leave her be." That's not unschooling; that is neglect.

> I guess I am going to learn more about tv shows. Who knows maybe she will introduce me to something great.
>

I can almost guarantee you'll learn something great if you get involved
and support her interests. Ask for help in brainstorming ways to support
her interests - because i get the feeling that is the real problem
you're having when you say her interests are so different than yours -
it means you don't have a wealth of immediate ideas for supporting hers,
right?

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 8/20/2009 9:21 PM, tiffermom@... wrote:
> I think you really hit the nail on the head. I know she would like to re-invent clothes. When I see a shirt I just see a shirt. How can I help her re-invent it. Do I give her gems and a glue gun and sit with her and see what happens. Do I get a pattern? She doesnt seem to like little kits. She stock piles them so that is not what she wants. She is extremely creative. I think I have answered my own question. I just had a thought of gathering up supplies and plain shirts and start there with her imagination. I wonder what she would come up with.
>

Get out of your comfort zone - do some yourself. Have some fun.... Don't
expect to hand her supplies or kits and think she'll just do them alone.

-pam

Heather

>
> <I just had a thought of gathering up supplies and plain shirts and start
> there with her imagination. I wonder what she would come up with.>
>
> <Get out of your comfort zone - do some yourself. Have some fun.... Don't
> expect to hand her supplies or kits and think she'll just do them alone.>
>







For ideas to get started, you can find a million ideas & examples on
youtube.
I just searched on "shirt decorating" & found how-to's on cool ways to cut
tshirts, add rhinestones,
and make iron-on designs.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<<I think you really hit the nail on the head. I know she would like to
re-invent clothes.>>>>

Just keep the kits - she'll probably come back to them for their contents
later.

If you have a Swap-o-rama-rama in your area you might take her. There are
people that do cool redux stuff with clothes.

I'm currently writing a book about fashion upcycling and redux. There are
tons of websites by people doing that.
www.craftstylish.com is a good place to start.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com

Melissa Dietrick

>
> <I just had a thought of gathering up supplies and plain shirts and start
> there with her imagination. I wonder what she would come up with.>
>
> <Get out of your comfort zone - do some yourself. Have some fun.... Don't
> expect to hand her supplies or kits and think she'll just do them alone.>
>


you can also explore www.etsy.com
there are alot of young stylists in there...and alot of ideas for
accessories and bags...its fun to explore with my children-we get tons of
ideas to do things together just from browsing.

I have found it very true about the mamma needing to participate in new
activities
--especially is the relationship is a bit shaky--
for fear of being judged a child might not participate until she sees that
mamma is really enjoying herself.

melissa
in italy
mamma di 7


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

>Do not "leave her be." That's not unschooling; that is neglect.

I do not mean this the way it sounded. I mean leave her be as in not
harrass her because I feel she is watching to much tv.
=====================================

For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter what you meant;
it matters what you said. Once the words are out here, we can discuss
the words. It's a discussion list, not a support group, so what you
put out is for the discussion and not about you anymore (not directly;
not yours to take back). Joyce described it perfectly once:


The list is about ideas, not about people.
Think of ideas like balls and the list like a ball court. If someone
tosses an idea worth discussing into the court it's going to get
batted about. At that point what's going on is no longer about the
person who tossed the idea in. It's about the idea and how well and
cleanly it's being tossed about. (Unless the tosser keeps jumping in
and grabbing the idea ball saying "Mine!")


Joyce




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carenkh

A very sweet book with projects that make you want to dive right in is The Creative Family by unschooling mom Amanda Soule.

http://www.soulemama.com/the_creative_family/

Her kids are younger, but my 10- and 16-year-old boys were inspired by some of the crafts. It's not fashion, exactly, but it can be a great springboard for stuff to do together.

Caren

Sandra Dodd

-=If you have a Swap-o-rama-rama in your area you might take her.
There are
people that do cool redux stuff with clothes.

I'm currently writing a book about fashion upcycling and redux. There
are
tons of websites by people doing that.
www.craftstylish.com is a good place to start.=-

http://www.craftstylish.com

I found two books on Amazon for Holly about altering t-shirts. She
had already been doing it, and I found some other examples. She
doesn't do things to the material of the shirts, she wraps and wears
them different ways, or slashes or... She did make a skirt of one,
and made pockets of the sleeves. There's a photo somewhere....

And she wore one big t-shirt as a dress one day.
I''ll put photos of Holly's altered clothes online here as I find
them. There might not be anything there if you read this right after
it's posted.
http://sandradodd.com/holly/clothes


For that sort of thing, thrift stores would be a better source than
new, plain-colored t-shirts would be. Sometimes it needs the shirt to
be way bigger than the girl, for having the extra material.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jenstarc4

> Do any of you have some ideas to get us started?
>


Sharpies! The huge package with all the colors. Grab all kinds of
clothing and draw on them!