ellinghamsandwich

i am listening to naomi aldort's series, "trusting our children, trusting ourselves..." and she just said in re. to others opposing our choices/values that we simply just can say: "thank you for sharing...but i'm going to go explore another possibility...thank you."

easier said than done, i know. i think a lot of this comes from pure self-acceptance and self-esteem. i can be so adamant sometimes but then i waver... to appease others instead of satisfy my own passions and live within my own values. this has been an uphill battle for me thus far. i'm 38 myself, marcy. i can totally relate to what you shared... i feel like such a child when my mother tells me she worries about my kids being kept 'safe' (in regards to unschooling...HUH?!?! i just don't get it. her fears are so irrational...) & so forth.

i am here if you need support. i really can relate, as i said, to feeling like a child at almost 40 and so afraid to just honor ourselves despite our family opposing our decisions and thinking we actually wish to hear their criticisms and ignorant fearful based comments and suggestions. sigh.

a lot of my comments and such on here and on RUN probably seem very childish and ignorant and full of fear and contradiction. in fact, i know they have a tendency to be like that... (right, sandra?!) it is because i'm in the midst of moving thru a huge erratic barrier, searching for a way to have a solid firm boundary between what my family is about and what my mother thinks it should be like. not as easy as it sounds...as you know. thank god for my art therapy group and these USing forums, my blog, my friends who US & for my children or i think i'd go insane from the pressure to conform. i have lived long enough doing just that and i'm so DONE. now how to break out gracefully and not go to extremes as i can do so easily, and just go w/ RUing despite my mothers' fears and objections......................yikes. my mother is not my self, right? please remind me now and then, will you, mamas?

hugs.

lis

--- In [email protected], "Marcy" <sweetpackages@...> wrote:

so,I never thought my first post to this group here would be like this but here goes..
Im 39 and mom to my two daughters 5 and 3 1/2. My oldest was in half day pre-k due to pressure from my parents to do the right thing and enroll her in school. I knew in my heart this wasnt right for her or for our family and on Mar 16 discussed this with her and we decided that she wouldnt be going back to school. Since then my parents and other family members have given me such grief you cant imagine,well you probably all can :-)
tensions have gotten to such a point that I have no contact with my sister or her husband due to a confrontation they caused in front of my girls at my parents house saying what i was doing was wrong and sick and hurtful to my children,threw water in my face etc etc
needless to say we left my parents house and havent or spoken to my sister since.she thinks Im a failure because Im "just a Mom" as she put it and not a corporate worker like her and that Im lots of other things that I wont even post here.
since that day things were strained with my parents because I was always the one who kept the peace and said I was sorry to "eep the peace" within the family at my own expense.

now it is affecting my relationship with my parents ,mostly my mother because she feels Im changing,and Im isolating myself fromt he real world and not showing my kids who the boss is when they express their feelings and "dont put them in line" She is saying that Im all about my girls and husband and not showing feelings for anyone else and that I am not the same person. I said I guess thats right,I wasnt really me before. Now Im voicing my opinions and standing up for myself ,and my thoughts and my feelings and Iguess that is making everyone uncomfortable because Im not going along for the ride anymore.
she was over the house today and tried to interfere with a project my daughter was doing,my daughter got upset and said I want to do it,my mom continued to show her "the right way" and my daughter got upset and said I like my way better and then when she didnt let up, she said "I want you to leave Grandma". well my mother didnt like that at all and my mother insists that I should have made my daughter apologize and Im not showing her right from wrong. I told her that is how she was feeling and Im not going to tell her not to express her feelings whether she is happy sad or mad,they are her feelings and she is entitled to feel that way.

that didnt go over well and she went into the rant,that this isnt like me and that I joined a cult or something,this isnt her daughter talking and something has changed and Im going to have a nervous breakdown if I let my kids say what they want and not be told how to talk to their grandma, I said she didnt curse at you,or even scream.she was upset and told you that.
she said Im not upset at her,Im upset at you for not demanding an apology for me.
Am I missing something here?..is there something I truly did wrong here and how can I get my parents,to understand that this might not be how they raised me or how they were rais..ed but just because Im doing something different ,that Im not hurting or damaging my kids.
I really feel this is the start of the end with some of my family relationships.
thanks for any insight
Marcy

--- End forwarded message ---

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 1, 2009, at 11:14 PM, ellinghamsandwich wrote:

> "thank you for sharing...but i'm going to go explore another
> possibility...thank you."

Even better, I think, since it gives the other person a sense that
you've understood and taken in what they've said so they're less
likely to keep pressuring until you see the light ;-) is "Thanks.
I'll keep that idea in mind if this stops working."

When people see someone doing something that goes against all common
wisdom, something that's risking dangers "everyone" has heard about,
the first thoughts are either "Are they stupid?" or "Don't they care?"

The natural reaction is to try to convince them you're not stupid and
that you do care. That won't work! ;-) They aren't in learning mode.
They're in teaching mode. They don't want to learn something new.
They want to make sure you're aware of the obvious. They want a sense
that you hear and understand what they're saying. They want a sense
that you could see the wisdom of their advice when your (loony) way
finally fails. You don't need to agree!

With relatives who are pushy with questions you can go a step further
and say you'd love to discuss it and will if they'll do some reading
so you're on the same page. And give them a list of books.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=-With relatives who are pushy with questions you can go a step further
and say you'd love to discuss it and will if they'll do some reading
so you're on the same page. And give them a list of books.-=-

Or one book. I've done it. Either they read the book and they calm
down some, or they don't read the book and I don't have to argue with
them about it any more past "Have you read that book yet?"

But that won't work in a situation in which the other relative is a
husband or wife, or a parent who's providing shelter and food. Then
it's just rude.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/1/2009 8:14 PM, ellinghamsandwich wrote:
> i am listening to naomi aldort's series, "trusting our children, trusting ourselves..." and she just said in re. to others opposing our choices/values that we simply just can say: "thank you for sharing...but i'm going to go explore another possibility...thank you."
>

Even that is more than you need to say and it is still a little
antagonistic (any "but" is a little antagonistic).

Also, "Thank you for sharing," has turned into a sort of known brush-off
line and people feel a little insulted by it.

If you are close to the people and they really do care about your kids,
do try to remember that - don't treat them like enemies. Be glad for
their caring.

I've said, "Something to consider" or "I'll think about it." It really
helps to say something like, "Thanks for caring."

A good way to end the conversation is to say, "Well, we'll see - we're
just going to try this a while and see how it works out."

-pam

Jenny C

>
>>> easier said than done, i know. i think a lot of this comes from pure
self-acceptance and self-esteem. i can be so adamant sometimes but then
i waver... to appease others instead of satisfy my own passions and live
within my own values. this has been an uphill battle for me thus far.
i'm 38 myself, marcy. i can totally relate to what you shared... i feel
like such a child when my mother tells me she worries about my kids
being kept 'safe' (in regards to unschooling...HUH?!?! i just don't get
it. her fears are so irrational...) & so forth. >>>
>

It seems to me, that for those with very young children, bucking the
system, as it were, need to go slower with relatives. Don't talk about
it with relatives, especially the ones that you know won't understand
it. Don't talk about unschooling. Talk about attatchment parenting if
you must talk about something, or even homeschooling.

Live your ideas for a while until you can articulate clearly and calmly
why you do things the way you do them. Be happy with your children. Be
partners with your children, not their defenders, but their partners.
Don't put yourself and your families in situations that cause you to
need to defend yourself or your families.

If visiting extended family causes too much tension, don't go so often,
or meet in restaurants that are kid friendly. You don't have to visit
family on holidays, you can make your own traditions. These things are
ALL about choices. You can choose to visit family and create tension,
or you can choose not to.

Sometimes we live too close to other family members to avoid them, so do
what it takes to be peaceful and happy and calm around your children.
Find ways to make the time spent together as pleasant as possible and
let the rest go. It's not worth it to spend your time fighting and
arguing and spinning your wheels and finding ways to change the other
person.

A person is only willing to change when they see that change is a good
thing, better than what they are currently doing. If you are being
confrontational with someone with whom you'd like to change, chances are
they won't, because confrontation doesn't present a "better" and "good"
reason to change.

This is something I know without a doubt!; People, in general, will
gravitate towards what is happy and peaceful and fun. I am the kind of
person who is like this and my whole family has come to count on it.
Good friends have relied on it and in fact sought me out because of it.
I know this about myself, that is why I'm sharing it. (rereading it, it
sounds braggy, but please don't take it that way) I really wanted to
share that one single person can affect this kind of change, simply by
BEing happy and peaceful and fun. It's a little like spreading magic!

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/1/2009 8:14 PM, ellinghamsandwich wrote:
> my mother is not my self, right? please remind me now and then, will you, mamas?
>
>

Don't look for other mamas. Focus on being one.

Move more into your intellect and out of your emotions. Use your brain
to check on whether your emotional reactions are logical/sensible.
Seriously, this is possible to very consciously do. I'm not saying to
ignore emotional reactions - I'm saying you're letting them take over
and you don't have to. You can come up with ways to click over to your
logical rational left-side brain thinking. Maybe even do a little quick
recitation of math facts in your head - that might help you click over
to being able to think more clearly.

-pam

Joanna Murphy

--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
> This is something I know without a doubt!; People, in general, will
> gravitate towards what is happy and peaceful and fun. I am the kind of
> person who is like this and my whole family has come to count on it.
> Good friends have relied on it and in fact sought me out because of it.
> I know this about myself, that is why I'm sharing it. (rereading it, it
> sounds braggy, but please don't take it that way) I really wanted to
> share that one single person can affect this kind of change, simply by
> BEing happy and peaceful and fun. It's a little like spreading magic!
>
This is such a great thought that I wanted to pull it out. My guess is that this quality may be more natural to Jenny--I don't know--but it can definitely be learned. And knowing this to be true isn't the same as doing it.

Maybe we could all write this on a sticky note and put in on the bathroom mirror!!:

"Be happy and peaceful and fun"

So in times that we are feeling snarky and argumentative and serious, we could think about that and make better choices.

Joanna

[email protected]

>>>> --- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...>
wrote: <<<<
>>>> This is something I know without a doubt!; People, in general,
will
gravitate towards what is happy and peaceful and fun. I am the kind of
person who is like this and my whole family has come to count on it.
Good friends have relied on it and in fact sought me out because of it.
I know this about myself, that is why I'm sharing it. <<<<
===================

>>>> This is such a great thought that I wanted to pull it out. My
guess is that this quality may be more natural to Jenny--I don't
know--but it can definitely be learned. <<<<
>>>> Joanna <<<<

Choosing happiness, trusting that those you live with (adults and
children) can make better choices when they find them, consciously
avoiding aggression, and opening your mind to ways to make family life
more livable are all things that will increase your chances to live
those things and to quietly assert and insert more unschooling proof
into the pudding (the life) you're making. All the people you live
with are essentially on their own life journeys and you can either
choose to be a happy influence or a grumpy one.

If you add grumpy ingredients, you may have something resembling an
unschooling life, but maybe the cook is the only one who will recognize
it. If you add happy ingredients, even when things are *not* totally
rosy all the time, people will see where your life is happy and sweet.
I have a friend who loves to say, when showing me any recipe, "A good
cook is generous." The same goes with recipes for making family life.
Be a generous maker of family and home life. Spread the butter around
if that's happy. Make it creamy not conservative and halting and
tenuous.

~Katherine

Sandra Dodd

-=If you add grumpy ingredients, you may have something resembling an
unschooling life, but maybe the cook is the only one who will recognize
it. If you add happy ingredients, even when things are *not* totally
rosy all the time, people will see where your life is happy and sweet.
I have a friend who loves to say, when showing me any recipe, "A good
cook is generous." The same goes with recipes for making family life.
Be a generous maker of family and home life. Spread the butter around
if that's happy. Make it creamy not conservative and halting and
tenuous.

-=-~Katherine-=-

I lived in a house once in which they were accustomed to watering down
the orange juice. I think it was because they "made" the kids drink
orange juice, and it was expensive, so they watered it to make it go
farther and to keep it from tasting so tart.

I would rather have one drink of sweet, thick orange juice and then a
glass of water. I nearly cried one day when I really wanted orange
juice and it was watered down right in front of me.

My brother in law used to buy milk when it was on sale and put it in
the freezer. Nobody in his family got to drink milk that hadn't been
frozen. (Bad enough to drink homogenized milk, but thawed out!?)

There are lots of ways to screw things up, as regards food,
relationships and unschooling. Thinking of how to screw it up will
create a checklist of things to avoid doing. Here's one from a
while back:

http://sandradodd.com/screwitup

(and don't take is as "do the opposite of all these" please--use it as
contrast if you need ideas!)

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

>
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Joanna Murphy <ridingmom@...> wrote:
>
--- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
> >
> > This is something I know without a doubt!; People, in general, will
> > gravitate towards what is happy and peaceful and fun. I am the kind of
> > person who is like this and my whole family has come to count on it.
> > Good friends have relied on it and in fact sought me out because of it.
> > I know this about myself, that is why I'm sharing it. (rereading it, it
> > sounds braggy, but please don't take it that way) I really wanted to
> > share that one single person can affect this kind of change, simply by
> > BEing happy and peaceful and fun. It's a little like spreading magic!
> >
> This is such a great thought that I wanted to pull it out. My guess is that
> this quality may be more natural to Jenny--I don't know--but it can
> definitely be learned. And knowing this to be true isn't the same as doing
> it.
>
> Maybe we could all write this on a sticky note and put in on the bathroom
> mirror!!:
>
> "Be happy and peaceful and fun"
>
> So in times that we are feeling snarky and argumentative and serious, we
> could think about that and make better choices.
>























I liked this too! It reminded me of when I would focus on characteristics I
wanted to better practice in my life - Joy in House Keeping, Patience and
Listening, Returning to Present, etc.. - I would think of an unschooler
(then just from their words, I'd not yet attended a conference) with the
ability to do what I wanted to do. Sometimes I'd just *be* that person, see
how my kid would react, for example, if I "behaved as though I was as
patient and interested as Sandra." The practice of "patient and interested
as Sandra" brought me to "patient and interested while Sandra visits"
(virtually, sitting on my sofa, my invisible unschooling mentor) which
strengthened my "patient and interested abilities" and soon I really was
Patient and Interested. I keep it in my head as Be Do Have - BE
____________________ then DO the things that ____________________ looks like
and viola! you HAVE _____________________
(I'd not thought of that in a long time, this was a great reminder!)

~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]