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In a message dated 11/12/2008 9:12:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:

<<<The fact remains
that needs and wants are different...that needs and wants are diff
want what's available. Our life has limitations on not only material
things but emotional things as well. For example, "Why does
Christmas come sooner?" or " Why can't Grandma and Granpda live with
us?" are things I cannot change no matter how much I may want to.>>>




The willingness to do what one can to get a kid as close as possible to that
goal ("need" or "want" becoming fairly irrelevant in the process) goes a
long, long way to being able to cope with things that just can't be when they do
come up. These things sound like "in the box" thinking-why can't Christmas
come sooner? It is easy to conjure up the attitude of giving and love that is
Christmas, easy to set up an artificial tree or decorate a big houseplant or
even cut out a tree from cardboard. It is fairly simple to box up and wrap
homemade things or something that's been put away for a while, or even "gift
certificates" for things like hugs, help with dishes, an hour or two of game
play together, etc. (granted, most of these are things unschoolers do, but this
is a mainstream person-plus, I've always found it fun just to have those
little certificates or coupons to "spend".)

What about Grandma and Grandpa's? Maybe visits could be more frequent or
longer. Maybe "sleepover" time would do the trick. Maybe meeting half way in
between would make the visits more do-able. Maybe a video camera would help
phone calls or e-mailing seem more "in person". Maybe the kids and the Grands
could play online games in real time together like World of Warcraft or Wii
games wi-fi or something in that realm.

It seems from my point of view that the original statements are something
easily grabbed at that mainstream parents would toss aside as "impossible to
change", where unschoolers see it as an open opportunity, a way to get those
creative juices flowing and find as many solutions as possible. It hasn't been
that long since I was in that mainstream way of thinking, but it seems so
distant and I've forgotten a lot. It *seems* mainstream folks grab at "certain"
"impossibles" just to shore up their need to say no, "... because I'm the
parent." If it really is that way, that's a pretty sad way to go about having a
relationship with your child-and if so, I'm SO glad we're not there any more.

Peace,
De
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 13, 2008, at 9:10 AM, Sanguinegirl83@... wrote:

> These things sound like "in the box" thinking-why can't Christmas
> come sooner? It is easy to conjure up the attitude of giving and
> love that is
> Christmas, easy to set up an artificial tree or decorate a big
> houseplant or
> even cut out a tree from cardboard.

There is also a big difference in attitude of saying something is
impossible, "Nothing you can do to make Christmas come any sooner.
Sorry about that." versus saying, "Don't you think it would be cool if
we could have Christmas once a week instead of once a year?" Very
often, just going with the idea of something is fun and satisfying.

My family played a sort of game, in the car, on long road trips. We'd
imagine what fun it would be to have different things IN the car with
us. It might start with someone wanting a drink of water and I'd say,
"Wouldn't it be cool to have a drinking fountain in the car?" "What
about a soda fountain?" But we'd move on to, "What about a REAL
fountain that we could play in?" I'd say I'd want a hot tub! And so on
- it would get silly and fun.

Economists do not distinguish between needs and wants - we call them
all wants. What other people call needs, we consider to be more
intense wants.

-pam

Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 13, 2008, at 9:10 AM, Sanguinegirl83@... wrote:

> It seems from my point of view that the original statements are
> something
> easily grabbed at that mainstream parents would toss aside as
> "impossible to
> change", where unschoolers see it as an open opportunity, a way to
> get those
> creative juices flowing and find as many solutions as possible.

We would see those yearnings of the kids as information about what
they are interested in and we'd find ways to support their interests.
If they are wishing Christmas would come sooner, most parents would
probably assume it was because they want to get their presents sooner
- greedy impatient kids!

But really, why are the presents they get at Christmas so special? It
probably has a lot to do with all the excitement and joy and spirit of
giving and celebration - it wouldn't be the same if you just handed
them the new toy without all the rest of what makes up Christmas for
them. So, really, it is not materialistic greed for new toys, it is
wanting to experience the joy and excitement. When we know what
they're really interested in, we can find ways to support that
interest. Get into the joy and excitement and spirit of Christmas in
all kinds of ways - baking Christmas cookies, making special gifts for
friends and relatives, make your own holiday cards or wrapping paper,
etc.

If our attitude is that something our kids express desire for is JUST
a "want," not a real "need," then it is easy to discount or ignore it.
The big difference between being good unschooling parents versus being
good, but conventional, parents, is that we are committed to putting a
very large effort into paying attention to our child's interests and
finding ways to support them. We don't get to disregard them -
supporting our kids' interests is not "extracurricular" or just
something to be done to occupy their spare time, it IS our chosen job/
role/lifestyle; it is what we're doing instead of schooling.

-pam

Angela Shaw

When my girls were littler, as each holiday approached, they would get into
the spirit by playing that it was that holiday over and over. Around Easter
time they would hide eggs for each other or for their stuffed animals. (or I
would hide them for them) Around Christmas they would wrap gifts for their
stuffed animals. They would use scotch tape and dish towels or face clothes
or sometimes even toilet paper. My kids' play has always seemed to emulate
what has been going on in our lives. When it was something stressful their
play would seem to be the way they worked through it emotionally.



Angela



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trude_flys

"Why does
> Christmas come sooner?" >
> The willingness to do what one can to get a kid as close as
possible to that
> goal ("need" or "want" becoming fairly irrelevant in the process)
goes a
> long, long way to being able to cope with things that just can't
be when they do
> come up. These things sound like "in the box" thinking-why can't
Christmas
> come sooner?


Living on priciples has meant that Christmas does come sooner within
our household. The principle was that this time of year was for
sharing with family. The reality was that I am a shift worker (away
for up to two weeks at a time), and therefore sitting down at midday
for a christmas lunch was often something outside of my control.
Living by the principle, meant that we could share time together
(often from the first day of December - more time to fit in cookies!)
and Christmas came on the 14th or the 18th or whenever.
Aswell as children and relatives being looked after with this, I was
also able to enjoy my Christmas day (whether I was working or not)
knowing that I was not missing any one BIG day, and that we were all
truly sated on love and companionship and caring for each other.
Pressies could be opened with me before I went on a trip, on
Christmas morning, or when I got home. It was the children's and our
choice and we weren't bound to stay with any choice from one year to
the next. I am also not bound to stay a shift worker from any one
year to the next - I enjoy what I do, I enjoy the time that it allows
me to spend at home and I choose to fit it into my own familylife, I
then need to pass exams to be qualified to continue working and I
need to turn up to work even on a public holiday. The needs and wants
become intertwined in this way.
regards Trude

prism7513

It is easy to conjure up the attitude of giving and love that is
> Christmas, easy to set up an artificial tree or decorate a big
houseplant or
> even cut out a tree from cardboard. It is fairly simple to box up
and wrap
> homemade things or something that's been put away for a while,


Besides re-creating holidays year-round, you could also invent new
ones! My then-three-year-old began getting interested in what holidays
were coming up "next." She's still very much this way and loves
counting down to birthdays, visits from friends, etc. That March she
decided to follow St. Patrick's Day with "Mushroom Day." It didn't
entail a whole lot as we didn't know how to celebrate it, yet, but all
day she kept mentioning the new holiday and would draw mushrooms and
ask me to tell her all about mushrooms.

Just think - you can come up with as many holidays as you want and
just as many ways to celebrate! Almost any age child could enjoy their
own made-up holiday :)

Deb

Kim

> Just think - you can come up with as many holidays as you want and
> just as many ways to celebrate! Almost any age child could enjoy their
> own made-up holiday :)

A couple of years ago, after we celebrated Mother's Day and Father,s
Day, my boys asked, "When is Brothers' Day?" So, we decided to create
it. My older son, then 4, decided that it should be on 4th of July,
because there would be fireworks. I loved his line of thinking about
what makes a celebration! This year, we celebrated our 3th annual
Brothers' Day. They get small gifts (usually something they can play
with outside). We make a special breakfast, and then head outside to
play games together. Of course, the day is topped off with
fireworks ... which my boys still insist are for them!
Kim