Kim

Just curious ... does anyone know of an instance when the
phrase "freaking out" or "it freaked me out" is offensive? My son said
that to his doctor today, and she read me the riot act about how in her
20 years of practice, she has never had any child speak so offensively
or disrespectfully to her. His doctor is 1st generation Chinese
American, so I thought perhaps it was a case of a language barrier. I
explained that when my son said that, he meant that he was shocked,
scared or startled by something. She told me that was absolutely not
what it meant, and that it was offensive that he would speak that
way ... it escalated into her telling me that both of my kids should be
in school, but that's another story for another day.

Sandra Dodd

-=-Just curious ... does anyone know of an instance when the
phrase "freaking out" or "it freaked me out" is offensive? -=-



Were you in the room? Was he complaining about something she had
done to him?

Did she think maybe he had used "the f word"?



-=-His doctor is 1st generation Chinese American, so I thought
perhaps it was a case of a language barrier. I explained that when my
son said that, he meant that he was shocked, scared or startled by
something. She told me that was absolutely not what it meant, and
that it was offensive that he would speak that way ... -=-



Maybe you could write a letter explaining calmly that perhaps she
should be aware of the phrase, because she might hear it again
someday. If she has a supervisor there, maybe copy the supervisor.
If she has a native-English-speaking nurse or assistant you could
appeal to, that might be another way to go.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

alexandriapalonia

It means "I'm scared/shocked/startled and have growing anxiety."

Maybe ask her to write out what she heard?
Maybe she heard "freakin'" or "fricken'" combined with something else?

I'd find a doc who speaks English well, and knows that she's been
hired as a medical doctor, and not an educational consultant.

Andrea

> Just curious ... does anyone know of an instance when the
> phrase "freaking out" or "it freaked me out" is offensive? My son
said > that to his doctor today, and she read me the riot act about
how in her > 20 years of practice, she has never had any child speak
so offensively > or disrespectfully to her. His doctor is 1st
generation Chinese > American, so I thought perhaps it was a case of a
language barrier. I > explained that when my son said that, he meant
that he was shocked, > scared or startled by something. She told me
that was absolutely not > what it meant, and that it was offensive
that he would speak that > way ... it escalated into her telling me
that both of my kids should be > in school, but that's another story
for another day.
>

Kim

> Were you in the room? Was he complaining about something she had
> done to him?
>
> Did she think maybe he had used "the f word"?

I was in the room the whole time - even laughed when he used the
phrase. When I realized that she may have misinterpreted him to say
the F word - or even if she just thought he said "freaking" as a
substitue for a version of the F word, I tried to explain what he
meant. She told me she never heard of such use of that word, and
that I was wrong to think it was okay. Her receptionist was right
there, and I looked to her a few times to chime in, but she didn't
seem to think it was her place. I'm hoping that perhaps they
discussed it after my departure. The recpetionist has kids ranging
in age from 10 to 15, so certainly she knows that what my son said
was not offensive.
The office is a tiny practice - just the doctor and her receptionist.

I agree that a letter is probably in order. I just need to clear my
head first. And, I also wanted to make sure that I was not
mistaken ... that my son's use of the term is common colloquial use,
and is not offensive.

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 2, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Kim wrote:

> I agree that a letter is probably in order. I just need to clear my
> head first. And, I also wanted to make sure that I was not
> mistaken ... that my son's use of the term is common colloquial use,
> and is not offensive.

Here - this might help you:

freak (someone) out
to become very excited or emotional. There was a bomb scare at the
school, and parents were freaking out about their kids' safety. Her
latest album just freaked me out.

Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms © Cambridge University Press
2003

k

The scenario you describe happens to me with close family.

I think general usage of a word can blur from culture to culture. And it
sounds like that may be the case with the doctor. Freak out, according to
some, is the same as f*ck. I don't use it so literally. And Karl uses it
like I do, more loosely in the same vein that your son uses it. In the
context of some cultures, what your doctor says makes sense. In your own
life, it makes none.

How about "luck" or "fortunate?" Not offensive swear or cuss words but
within special religious context they can be controversial. Most people
would know what I mean when I say that someone is fortunate and thank God
that so and so is ok. Some Christians think you're forfeiting your
influence on nonChristians or revealing to Christians that you're not one if
you don't erase the word "luck" and "fortune" from your vocabulary. My
interpretation is not the same as theirs. I think the force behind my luck
is God. Within the context of Christianity, what my folks are saying makes
sense. In my personal faith, it makes none.

~Katherine




On 10/2/08, Kim <kimjimstudz@...> wrote:
>
> Just curious ... does anyone know of an instance when the
> phrase "freaking out" or "it freaked me out" is offensive? My son said
> that to his doctor today, and she read me the riot act about how in her
> 20 years of practice, she has never had any child speak so offensively
> or disrespectfully to her. His doctor is 1st generation Chinese
> American, so I thought perhaps it was a case of a language barrier. I
> explained that when my son said that, he meant that he was shocked,
> scared or startled by something. She told me that was absolutely not
> what it meant, and that it was offensive that he would speak that
> way ... it escalated into her telling me that both of my kids should be
> in school, but that's another story for another day.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:

>
> Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms © Cambridge University Press
> 2003
>
Thank you ... that is very helpful! I wasn't able to find a definition
worded in a way that exactly matched what my son was saying, but this
is it!

Nancy Wooton

On Oct 2, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Kim wrote:

> if she just thought he said "freaking" as a
> substitue for a version of the F word, I tried to explain what he
> meant. She told me she never heard of such use of that word, and
> that I was wrong to think it was okay.


Maybe she's familiar with "freak" as a noun, but not as a verb, and
finds *that* offensive? Or thinks of "freak" in the slang context of
a sex addict (re. Rick James's song, "Super Freak")?

From Wikipedia:
The term super freak (and the term freak from which it descended) are
African American ghetto slang (see both Slang and Ebonics). Freak and
super freak are both references to : a woman who enjoys sex; perhaps
but not necessarily a woman who is promiscuous, is willing to
experiment sexually or is hyper-sexualized. In common use either term
can simply refer to a woman. The slang term get freaky (to act
sexually) derives from the same root as well.
Given that the standard dictionary meaning of the word freak is a
reference to a "freak of nature", one could easily make a case that
the use (and origin) of these slang terms indicating a basic belief
that 'any woman who has a healthy sex life must be a freak of
nature' (or at least an oddity). This lies is in stark contrast to the
well researched and contradictory realities of female sexuality and
the fact that women possess a much larger capacity for sexual pleasure
than men do. The slang term freak and its relatives say a great deal
about the views of that segment of society in which they arose (in
regards to preconceived ideas regarding female sexuality and socially
appropriate female sex roles).
There is a very obvious link between this terminology (and it meaning)
and the Madonna Whore complex in which all women must be virginal
(sexually untouched) or are automatically unworthy of any respect (see
also references to the veneration of virginity and the practice of
'cherry picking' in western society). For an example of this in film,
seeSaturday Night Fever in which a casual sexual conquest by the
character of Tony (played by John Travolta) turns into male only
gratification when he discovers that the woman he desires is not a
virgin. The Madonna Whore complex is well documented in both
psychology and Feminist literature. It lies at the very roots of the
sexual morays of middle America and the mythology of the American
Golden Age (common in conservative American politics). The pervasive
and repressive nature of the Madonna Whore complex and the way in
which it creates an unhealthy view of female sexuality were at the
heart of crossover between the sexual revolution in America and the
20th century womens rights movement in America.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 2, 2008, at 10:28 AM, k wrote:

> Some Christians think you're forfeiting your
> influence on nonChristians or revealing to Christians that you're
> not one if
> you don't erase the word "luck" and "fortune" from your vocabulary.

That's interesting. It is kind of like us trying to get new-to-
unschooling people to not use the word "teach" when talking about
their children learning, they're trying to get Christians to let go of
the idea that things happen by chance. Makes sense.

I disagree with you about "freak out," though. Saying something is
"freakin'" whatever IS using "freakin" in place of that other F-word
<G>. But "freaking out" is an expression in its own right, not a
euphemism.

-pam

lava

Were you in the room? Does he speak low/quietly?? What was the rest
of the sentence? Was "I'm freaking out" or "it freaked me out" or
something else ? Maybe she heard "f**king up" rather than "freaking
out" or something like that?

As a teenager I used "freaking" or "fricking" in mixed company fairly
often, and I vaguely remember once being told that I might as well
say "f**king" because that's what it meant and it was just as
offensive, but that was by a rather high-strung older female, and the
sentence was something like "what are we fricking doing here?" rather
than using the phrase "freaking out" which is NOT a "polite form" of
"f**king but has its own meaning.

I would speak to her office manager (in person or on the phone,
rather than by letter, and today or tomorrow, while the incident is
well-remembered), and try to gently clarify by giving her the
situation and asking her to explain to the doctor that he said
"freaking out" and did she hear something different? etc. I would
tread gently (unfortunately, perhaps) and kiss some a**es, as she
could call Child Services on you if she were angry/upset enough.

-Lara

At 12:33 PM 10/2/2008, you wrote:

>Just curious ... does anyone know of an instance when the
>phrase "freaking out" or "it freaked me out" is offensive? My son said
>that to his doctor today, and she read me the riot act about how in her
>20 years of practice, she has never had any child speak so offensively
>or disrespectfully to her. His doctor is 1st generation Chinese
>American, so I thought perhaps it was a case of a language barrier. I
>explained that when my son said that, he meant that he was shocked,
>scared or startled by something. She told me that was absolutely not
>what it meant, and that it was offensive that he would speak that
>way ... it escalated into her telling me that both of my kids should be
>in school, but that's another story for another day.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I agree that a letter is probably in order. I just need to clear my
head first. And, I also wanted to make sure that I was not
mistaken ... that my son's use of the term is common colloquial use,
and is not offensive.-=-



Perhaps you could print out some online definitions that support the
non-drug-related use, and admit that you realized later that
sometimes lately kids use "freakin'" as a substitute word (euphemism)
for a bad word, but that's fairly recent compared to the phrase
"freaked out" which goes back to the late 60's or early 70's.



As to doctors having the business of advising on child development,
they do, by law. This has been discussed here before, so anyone
who'd never heard of it could search the archives for "mandatory
reporter."



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-. Freak out, according to
some, is the same as f*ck. -=-



I don't think so. Do you have any evidence or documentation for this?

Kids will say "I lost my freakin' wallet" or "where's the freakin'
bathroom" but neither of those is "freak out."

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-That's interesting. It is kind of like us trying to get new-to-
unschooling people to not use the word "teach" when talking about
their children learning, they're trying to get Christians to let go of
the idea that things happen by chance. Makes sense.-=-



It's old, too. In certain kinds of Christian families, to talk about
someone being unlucky or sending a card saying "May fortune smile on
your journey" is kinda blasphemous.

My mamaw was like that, my dad's mom.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Were you in the room? Does he speak low/quietly?? What was the rest
of the sentence? Was "I'm freaking out" or "it freaked me out" or
something else ? Maybe she heard "f**king up" rather than "freaking
out" or something like that?-=-



It could also make whether he was talking about something that had
happened at home, hours or days before, or about something she was
doing right then and there to him.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Ahhh. I see the finer point now about the word "freak."

And yes. I had drawn the same luck/fortune and teach comparison.

~Katherine




On 10/2/08, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2008, at 10:28 AM, k wrote:
>
> > Some Christians think you're forfeiting your
> > influence on nonChristians or revealing to Christians that you're
> > not one if
> > you don't erase the word "luck" and "fortune" from your vocabulary.
>
> That's interesting. It is kind of like us trying to get new-to-
> unschooling people to not use the word "teach" when talking about
> their children learning, they're trying to get Christians to let go of
> the idea that things happen by chance. Makes sense.
>
> I disagree with you about "freak out," though. Saying something is
> "freakin'" whatever IS using "freakin" in place of that other F-word
> <G>. But "freaking out" is an expression in its own right, not a
> euphemism.
>
> -pam
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

When I say "according to some" I'm not referring to myself and I don't agree
with it.

I am going to clarify with the people who were going off about this to make
sure what they meant before I comment further. It seemed to me that
somewhere in there was an equation between "freak" and "f*ck." Dunno now.

~Katherine




On 10/2/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-. Freak out, according to
> some, is the same as f*ck. -=-
>
> I don't think so. Do you have any evidence or documentation for this?
>
> Kids will say "I lost my freakin' wallet" or "where's the freakin'
> bathroom" but neither of those is "freak out."
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<> I don't think so. Do you have any evidence or documentation for
this?>>>

You could watch the film "BlueVelvet" on DVD and then on one of the
networks. They replace the extremely numerous f**ks in the dialogue with
"freak" - to the point that it's just ridiculous. "I'll freak anything that
moves".

But that's concious censorship because of public policy, not real common
usage. I think often people are trying to avoid offending others by using
"freak" or "fudge", so it's really a kind and thoughtful action.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

sean_ryan_doherty

I am new to the group. My name is Sean and my wife and I raise three
beautiful children in Southern, NH. I had to join to chime in on
this one. First the definition and etymology of FREAK:
freak
8 dictionary results for: freak
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
freak1 /frik/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation
[freek] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. any abnormal phenomenon or product or unusual object;
anomaly; aberration.
2. a person or animal on exhibition as an example of a strange
deviation from nature; monster.
3. a sudden and apparently causeless change or turn of events, the
mind, etc.; an apparently capricious notion, occurrence, etc.: That
kind of sudden storm is a freak.
4. Numismatics. an imperfect coin, undetected at the mint and put
into circulation.
5. Philately. a stamp differing from others of the same printing
because of creases, dirty engraving plates, etc. Compare error (def.
8), variety (def. 8).
6. Slang. a. a person who has withdrawn from normal, rational
behavior and activities to pursue one interest or obsession: a drug
freak.
b. a devoted fan or follower; enthusiast: a baseball freak.
c. a hippie.

7. Archaic. capriciousness; whimsicality.
–adjective 8. unusual; odd; irregular: a freak epidemic.
–verb (used without object), verb (used with object) 9. to become or
make frightened, nervous, or wildly excited: The loud noise caused
the horse to freak.
—Verb phrase10. freak out, Slang. a. to enter into or cause a period
of irrational behavior or emotional instability, as under the
influence of a drug: to be freaked out on LSD.
b. to lose or cause to lose emotional control from extreme
excitement, shock, fear, joy, despair, etc.: Seeing the dead body
freaked him out.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

[Origin: 1555–65; 1965–70 for def. 6; perh. akin to OE frîcian to
dance]


—Synonyms 3. vagary, quirk, crotchet.

Then a quick story about my son who was 5 at the time was playing
with his schooled cousin. Finnegan was in the habit of throwing out
a "What the Heck?!?" every now and again just as something he said.
His cousin told him that he shouldn't say that. Finn asked why and
she explained that heck meant hell, and that hell was a bad word.
Finn's reposone was "I don't even know what hell is."

My point is they are only words and by forbiding them I think we give
them power they do not inherently have.

I would even consider switching providers as it sounds like your
doctor is not on board with the choices you and your family have made
regarding schooling. Anyway thanks for listening.

--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> Ahhh. I see the finer point now about the word "freak."
>
> And yes. I had drawn the same luck/fortune and teach comparison.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
>
>
> On 10/2/08, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Oct 2, 2008, at 10:28 AM, k wrote:
> >
> > > Some Christians think you're forfeiting your
> > > influence on nonChristians or revealing to Christians that
you're
> > > not one if
> > > you don't erase the word "luck" and "fortune" from your
vocabulary.
> >
> > That's interesting. It is kind of like us trying to get new-to-
> > unschooling people to not use the word "teach" when talking about
> > their children learning, they're trying to get Christians to let
go of
> > the idea that things happen by chance. Makes sense.
> >
> > I disagree with you about "freak out," though. Saying something is
> > "freakin'" whatever IS using "freakin" in place of that other F-
word
> > <G>. But "freaking out" is an expression in its own right, not a
> > euphemism.
> >
> > -pam
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-I am going to clarify with the people who were going off about
this to make
sure what they meant before I comment further.-=-



Nobody's "going off" about anything. That's stronger than "freaking
out," to say someone's going off. Seriously.

I might be going on about something, but going off is sudden and
scary and over the top.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-You could watch the film "BlueVelvet" on DVD and then on one of the
networks. They replace the extremely numerous f**ks in the dialogue with
"freak" - to the point that it's just ridiculous. "I'll freak
anything that
moves".-=-



Well that's nonsense, but maybe that's where the doctor learned to
dislike the word.

That's not common usage of native speakers, that's goofy editing.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

But, "to freak out" is an idiomatic expression that doesn't mean to
"become a freak." It has its own meaning as an expression.

-pam


On Oct 2, 2008, at 11:38 AM, sean_ryan_doherty wrote:

> First the definition and etymology of FREAK:

Sandra Dodd

-=-Then a quick story about my son who was 5 at the time was playing
with his schooled cousin. Finnegan was in the habit of throwing out
a "What the Heck?!?" every now and again just as something he said.
His cousin told him that he shouldn't say that. Finn asked why and
she explained that heck meant hell, and that hell was a bad word.
Finn's reposone was "I don't even know what hell is." -=-

That's a good one.

Some of my grandfather's euphemism in Texas, mid-20th century were
"Shoot" for "shit" but the common usage was "Shoot fire." And in
his accent it sounded kinda like "Sheeyoot far."

My granny would say "Land o'Goshen" the way some people will say "son
of a bitch"--not to call someone that, but just to say it when
something is very frustrating. My boyfriend from India was visiting
my granny and papaw with me (these were my mom's parents, not even
the religious side of the family, but the taboo ran deep), and said
"Why is your grandmother saying "Atlantic Ocean"?

I love the things Ned Flanders says on The Simpsons.



When I was a kid if I said "geez..." my mom would get really angry
because it's too much like "Jesus." I wasn't even thinking about
Jesus when I said it. I only saw my mom go to church twice in my
life and she was a heck of an alcoholic and a bully, and there had
been some retalliatory adultery before my parents had kids, but maybe
she though MAYBE if nobody in her vicinity took the lord's name in
vain, she'd be overlooked.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeri Reid

Hi Kim

I am freaking out right now... imagine that this doctor can be so
uptight to see something only "one way"... on top of that,
c'mon...Freaking out is not new.
I would be very concerned about this doctors rigid character and
then health decisions if this doctor can't even think out of
the "box" or make light of a situation.
I think I would apologize to my son for exposing him to someone
unable to be open-minded and happy-go-lucky... then I would send a
letter to discontinue services mentioning how you were "freaked out"
after the office visit today and you are going to find a freaking
new doctor. This doctor forgets you are part of their income
producing clientele and sounds like they demand respect, not earn it.

You can remove a fly from someones forehead with a feather or an
axe... your son just got an axe to the forehead...

Jeri :-)

--- In [email protected], "Kim" <kimjimstudz@...> wrote:
>
> Just curious ... does anyone know of an instance when the
> phrase "freaking out" or "it freaked me out" is offensive? My son
said
> that to his doctor today, and she read me the riot act about how
in her
> 20 years of practice, she has never had any child speak so
offensively
> or disrespectfully to her. His doctor is 1st generation Chinese
> American, so I thought perhaps it was a case of a language
barrier. I
> explained that when my son said that, he meant that he was
shocked,
> scared or startled by something. She told me that was absolutely
not
> what it meant, and that it was offensive that he would speak that
> way ... it escalated into her telling me that both of my kids
should be
> in school, but that's another story for another day.
>

k

Sorry, Sandra. I meant people in real life who are going off and yelling
about it. I had thought after posting about "making sure" to just nevermind
because sometimes it's just not worth stirring it again.

~Katherine




On 10/2/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-I am going to clarify with the people who were going off about
> this to make
> sure what they meant before I comment further.-=-
>
> Nobody's "going off" about anything. That's stronger than "freaking
> out," to say someone's going off. Seriously.
>
> I might be going on about something, but going off is sudden and
> scary and over the top.
>
> Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brad Holcomb

>You could watch the film "BlueVelvet" on DVD and then on one of the
>networks. They replace the extremely numerous f**ks in the dialogue with
>"freak" - to the point that it's just ridiculous. "I'll freak anything that

>moves".



On the tv series Battlestar Galactica, they use "frack".

"No frackin' way are we surviving this one!"
"If we don't abandon ship right now, we're fracked!"
"What the frack are you doing?"
"I don't give a frack."


It doesn't feel out of place at all, and after watching a few episodes I
found myself using it in conversation, and nobody ever asked me what I
meant. Here's the wiki entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frack



-=b.



--
Brad in Boulder, CO
http://holcombs.org

Nancy Wooton

On Oct 2, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Robyn L. Coburn wrote:

> I think often people are trying to avoid offending others by using
> "freak" or "fudge", so it's really a kind and thoughtful action.


And in our house, it's "Frak." Oh, and "gorram," for "g*ddam."

Nancy and the frakkin' sci fi freaks.

Nancy Wooton

On Oct 2, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> I love the things Ned Flanders says on The Simpsons.

Do you remember *why* he talks like that?


Nancy

Sandra Dodd

Because he's not only born again but a convert from godless beatnik
parents?

Sandra Dodd

-=-I am freaking out right now... imagine that this doctor can be so
uptight to see something only "one way"... on top of that,
c'mon...Freaking out is not new. -=-

Unschooling isn't new, but it's new to someone on this list every
single day.

-=-I would be very concerned about this doctors rigid character and
then health decisions if this doctor can't even think out of the
"box" or make light of a situation. I think I would apologize to my
son for exposing him to someone unable to be open-minded and happy-go-
lucky... then I would send a letter to discontinue services
mentioning how you were "freaked out" after the office visit today
and you are going to find a freaking new doctor. This doctor forgets
you are part of their income producing clientele and sounds like they
demand respect, not earn it.

-=-You can remove a fly from someones forehead with a feather or an
axe... your son just got an axe to the forehead...-=-



I very much disagree with this. It's "supportive," but it's not
productive. It won't make situations better.

Many people aren't happy-go-lucky.

One important life skill among thousands is to know when and where to
use what level of language. Both Marty and Kirby have been in metro
court for traffic violations. Neither of them said "Chuh" or "Dude"
to the judge. There were others there who might not have gone that
far, but whose clothing and posture were neither respectful nor
humble. My boys got off very easily, and some of those others didn't.

Parents should help their children figure out that there are
different ways to act and dress and eat and everything, depending on
whether it's a wedding or a funeral. You don't act the same way at
your brothers 21st birthday as you do at your grandmother's 80th.

Sandra






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k

Nah... he's Les Nessman born again.



On 10/2/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Because he's not only born again but a convert from godless beatnik
> parents?
>
>


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