prism7513

First off I want to thank Sandra for her website (thank you, Sandra!)
I have been scouring it and soaking it up. I will admit that having
now met you in "person" on-line, I was a bit nervous and excited (THE
Sandra Dodd????) I had heard about your site from other unschooler
forums, but somehow never got the link to any you were on until the
NING site where your name appeared and I went "Hey - I know that name!

Anyway, I will say I feel somewhat less educated compared to you (I
would use the "s" word, but since I know how you feel about that now,
I'll refrain!) I hope that someday I'll feel as confidant as you sound
in your posts.

This whole concept of changing the way we think in order to change the
way we parent and allow our children the freedom to be and learn is
still a process I'm growing through.

It's ironic. When I was little, my mom didn't like us saying those
silly children's clapping rhymes because she said words are powerful
and the ones we were saying were not good (Mama, Mama, I'm so sick,
call the doctor quick quick quick...Doctor, doctor, will I die? Count
to five and you'll be alive!)

And yet here I am, fully adult, and once again finding out how
powerful words can be, though obviously in a different fashion. And to
be honest, I will admit my first knee-jerk reaction is: this is not
fun. Now I have to THINK before I can just say what I want!

But hopefully I'll get over it and just learn!

Second, to everyone:

What has the journey of your spouse or partner looked like as you have
traveled the unschooling path?

My DH is very supportive of it (remember, he's a public school social
studies teacher, mostly seniors, and a head football coach.) He hasn't
read any of the books (not a book reader) or gone to any of the sites,
due to time. So I just relay the info I find to him, and he totally
agrees with me, which is good.

But then comes the parenting stuff, which I'm not totally great at,
yet. I try very hard to guide my children peacefully, and I know I do
better than I would have if I had never heard of unschooling. But I
have a long way to go.

DH (Jim, it's easier) doesn't get the benefit of sitting down 3 hours
a night to read all the stuff I do, and he isn't here during the day
to see how I might react in certain situations. So when the kids do
something that is very normal for kids, he'll react in a very "normal"
parent-type way. Sometimes I do, too. But when I catch myself, he'll
of course still be reacting the same way. And I don't want to chide
him, because I don't think that's any better than putting down the
child, but I'm not sure how to explain to him all the stuff I've
gathered in the short time that we actually get to talk (over the kids
chatter, of course, since he's only home for a few hours before HE
goes to bed around 8 or 9...getting up at 5 to get work done at school
before his football boys come in for their morning weight lift.)

Overall he's a GREAT father, and wonderful husband. I count my
blessings daily! And since I'm still working on MY end of the
parenting scale, I can't expect him to be perfect.

So what did you all do, or DO you do? Did you dh's or partners read
everything you did? Or do you sit down and talk about it?

I think I'm hitting on some key elements that finally clicked for me
tonight, as I was trying to explain some stuff to him, and then he
asked me, "Well, what happens when the kid goes off and does something
really stupid, then?" I replied that, I THINK, the whole point is that
in respectful families, the kids have NO NEED to do anything stupid.
But I'd ask....

And then I thought of parents I know whose kids bite or hit other
kids, and I wondered how you all would handle that if it were YOUR
child...

And then I read Sandra's site on sibling fights, and I think I found
an answer, sort of...

There's maybe not a certain way of handling it, but it's about looking
at how your child would WANT you to handle it (not in the silly,
doubter's head sort of way where one might think, "well, he's a kid,
he'll want to get away with it!") because I'm beginning to see that's
not true. He WANTS to do good, and doesn't know how to handle the
feelings he has, and he needs MY help to figure out a way to properly
handle those strong, and justified, feelings.

And the part (don't remember if Sandra or someone she was quoting said
it) about LETTING yourself (as an adult) process your feelings instead
of trying to STOP the anger, to let it come, realize why it's there,
then let it go, might actually help HIM personally. He is a person who
reacts before he thinks sometimes, and never hurts people, but usually
says things he doesn't mean, or throws his tools or something. And he
doesn't like to do it, but doesn't know how to stop. So maybe this
will help him!

Thank you again, and any advice you have for Dad would be wonderful!

Deb

Laura Beaudin

Thanks for that interesting email, it gave me plenty of food for
thought. I do not consider myself an unschooler YET, but I'm slowly
travelling down that path.

You see, my husband is Egyptian and comes from a culture where
homeschooling is virtually non-existent and almost guaranteed to lead
to a life of unemployment and poverty. I've wanted to homeschool my
children since my first marriage over ten years ago. When I
remarried, I set right to work at showing Hesham (I guess DH is
easier in this case, LOL) the virtues of homeschooling. I hammered it
into him at every opportunity. After three years, our first daughter
was born and now that she's going to turn four, he wouldn't have it
any other way (SCORE!)

Now for unschooling. Right now, I'm using Calvert K with DD. I don't
consider it forced schooling since 1. she's gifted (no doubt about
that) and 2, she LOVES doing the work. She begs to do it and if I
can't one day, she'll ask about it all day. I plan on finishing off
the curriculum, then go more towards interest-lead learning in the
form of unit studies (informally). I plan on using a curriculum for
math however. It's taken so much work trying to get DH convinced that
homeschooling is not only the best way, but the only way. I don't
want to push it with him. I can justify unschooling with the rest of
her education, but I feel like I'd lose his support when it comes to
math. Secondly, I have medical conditions that might make it
impossible to follow her closely (and my other daughter, for that
matter) in the future. Should the case ever arise that (God forbid)
I'm no longer around, I want her to be able to take up learning under
someone else's tutelage or a school (again, God forbid) without too
much grief. This is the one area I know she might lack otherwise.

I know many of you will have your opinions on this and I welcome
them. I'd like to fully unschool her, but I also need to resolve it
with my life's circumstances.

Sorry for the rambling!

Laura



>What has the journey of your spouse or partner looked like as you have
>traveled the unschooling path?

Don't let school get in the way of your education!" --unknown
Visit Practical Homeschooling and view our September contest for a
chance to win free paint-me puzzles!
Practical Homeschooling: http://www.practical-homeschooling.org
Works in Progress: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Laura.Beaudin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Anyway, I will say I feel somewhat less educated compared to you (I
would use the "s" word, but since I know how you feel about that now,
I'll refrain!) I hope that someday I'll feel as confidant as you sound
in your posts. -=-



Well thanks, I guess. Don't use the s word; sheesh! I've been
thinking about this stuff (learning and parenting) since about 1956,
so a lot of it experience and a large factor is cerebral
hyperactivity. I try to aim it in a good direction and use my
outpourings for good.

I'm glad you found the unschooling site and that you like it. Many
people have contributed the cloth from which I made that oversized
quilt, and I keep adding to it.

-=-When I was little, my mom didn't like us saying those

silly children's clapping rhymes because she said words are powerful
and the ones we were saying were not good (Mama, Mama, I'm so sick,
call the doctor quick quick quick...Doctor, doctor, will I die? Count
to five and you'll be alive!)-=-

My mom flipped out once when I was three or four or so and was
playing by myself with dolls and one doll said to the other "Where's
Papaw?" and another doll answered "Papaw's dead." I was playing with
the idea, and I think I didn't have a doll that could have
represented him, and I was playing by myself as usual and she went
off and said this and some: "What if he dies? You'll feel terrible!
Don't EVER say you wish someone were dead."

It wasn't until many years later that I pieced together (speaking of
quilts) that she had wished her brother would die, and he did. She
didn't cause rheumatic fever (nor rural poverty and the state of
medicine in the 1930's), but she felt guilty, I guess, and wasn't
talking about the what and why. So her personal state of emotional
outpouring was hurting other people. Life is better now, I think,
in that the idea of psychology and self-knowledge isn't in the
category of sinful self-indulgent nonsense anymore.

-=-And to

be honest, I will admit my first knee-jerk reaction is: this is not
fun. Now I have to THINK before I can just say what I want!-=-

Oooh!! Is it like the cartoon here?

http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/09/blog-post.html

I'm always interested in knowing why these ideas get people cranky
before it gets them euphoric. I think the ideas make them cranky,
but their seeing the improvements in their children and their
relationships with them brings them overwhelming joy. I could be
wrong.



Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I'm beginning to see that's
not true. He WANTS to do good, and doesn't know how to handle the
feelings he has, and he needs MY help to figure out a way to properly
handle those strong, and justified, feelings.-=-



That's it. It involves changing from being your child's jailer/
keeper/trainer to being his partner and guide.

-=-And the part (don't remember if Sandra or someone she was quoting
said

it) about LETTING yourself (as an adult) process your feelings instead
of trying to STOP the anger, to let it come, realize why it's there,
then let it go, might actually help HIM personally. He is a person who
reacts before he thinks sometimes, and never hurts people, but usually
says things he doesn't mean, or throws his tools or something. And he
doesn't like to do it, but doesn't know how to stop. So maybe this
will help him!-=-

Doesn't sound like me, the first part. I prefer people to turn their
frustrations toward clarity and breathing and learning to be calm.

The first time I saw my progress, Kirby was a baby with a doctor's
appointment and I had given him a bath in a baby tub on the kitchen
table (an old 50's dinette set, which sounds like a cool antique, but
at the time it wasn't; but it wasn't a wooden table is what I'm saying).

He was dressed and in the living room, and I was all ready to go, and
it was time, and I was going to move that baby bath water from the
tub to the sink, to pour it out. The plastic tub buckled, and dumped
that soapy baby water all over my kitchen floor, my feet, my legs,
myself, the things on the bottom shelves, under the stove.

I remember seeing it happen like in slow motion and instead of my
usual rage and crying and yelling bad words and feeling abused and
unlucky and a failure and being angry at the horrible unfairness of
the stupid world, I thought it wasn't the best thing to have
happened, and maybe next time I could empty some of the water out,
and this wouldn't be so bad because the floor needed a wash anyway.

It was more important that I be calm for Kirby's sake.

I remember it smelled like Johnson's baby wash. And I didn't scream
or do that long guttural fury-grunt or anything. I changed clothes
and took Kirby to the doctor.

I was glad to tell Keith, when he got home, that I had handled a
disaster calmly.

Yesterday was a rough day for me, just one thing after another,
starting with waking up to a computer that wouldn't power on, and no
trick I'd known before (plugging and unplugging, waiting) helped.
Black was black. It didn't even smell like Johnson's baby soap or
anything.

But it was important that I not add to the unfolding day of
imperfection by being horrible myself. I was short a few times, but
tried to turn it to humor and apology and try to act in ways that let
my friends and family know that it was a bad day that a long nap
would fix, but for one reason and another I couldn't take a nap yet,
because the problems were still arriving and unfolding themselves.

So if you model your newfound attempt to be and reasons to be more
mindful and calm, it will spread. If you try to be nice to your
husband in some of the new ways you're being nice to your kids, that
will help.

This might help:

http://sandradodd.com/breathing

I suppose it will have more someday. Someone at a conference argued
with me, and sent me "evidence" later that it was light breathing
that was calming. Well, not if you're full of adrenaline it's not.
Getting angry or scared of self-righteous and then holding your
breath or avoiding the intake of oxygen, that's a maintenance plan
for negativity.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I don't
consider it forced schooling since 1. she's gifted (no doubt about
that) and...-=-

Put the brakes on, please.

Before using that term on this list again (which you might want to do
anyway, or not), please read these two pages:

http://sandradodd.com/giftedness

http://sandradodd.com/intelligence

Thanks.

-=-I know many of you will have your opinions on this and I welcome
them. -=-

Many of us have much more than opinions. We have years of experience
helping other people move toward unschooling. If that's what you
want, to learn more about unschooling, please do stay on the list and
read! If what you want is for people to say it's okay to unschool
all but math, that's not the purpose of this list.

These might help:

http://sandradodd.com/checklists

http://sandradodd.com/math



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

<snip>
DH (Jim, it's easier) doesn't get the benefit of sitting down 3 hours
a night to read all the stuff I do, and he isn't here during the day
to see how I might react in certain situations. So when the kids do
something that is very normal for kids, he'll react in a very "normal"
parent-type way. Sometimes I do, too. But when I catch myself, he'll
of course still be reacting the same way.
<snip>

David parents in a different way to me. Sometimes it is lecturing, sometimes it is playing, it's just different. Sometimes there are things that I can see are being made more difficult because of the way he handles it. But there is definitely a vice versa going on sometimes. Today, for example, Simon said he was tired and I asked him a couple of times if he wanted a bath. David turned to me and gently said "He knows what he wants, he is very good at asking for what he wants." HIs perspective often helps me to see more clearly. If David is being angrier or shorter, more terse, with Simon and Linnaea I'll sometimes ask if he's tired, not meanly, not naggingly, just as a sort of nudge. Usually he is tired. Maybe he's always tired, but in that moment he gets to choose whether or not to be led by being tired. But that comes from lots of time into this kind of parenting. Sometimes I'll change what is going on with Simon and Linnaea, move us into a different
activity, a different kind of motion and noise.

In the early days I'm sure I told him off more. I don't think it helped. It just made him more defensive and less likely to be involved. Now, if I see something that I know is going to piss him off happening I will try and step in, just as I would with Simon or Linnaea, and mediate that moment, calm it, make it less irritating. I think he does the same thing. That didn't happen because I nagged him. That didn't happen because I told him what to do. It came because I wanted things to be better and brighter and more peaceful (if loud) and I took steps to make that happen. David wanted the same thing and he saw what I had done and did similar things. There have been conversations, I talk a lot, but it has been much more about modelling than it has been about sculpting, if you will.

<snip>
I think I'm hitting on some key elements that finally clicked for me
tonight, as I was trying to explain some stuff to him, and then he
asked me, "Well, what happens when the kid goes off and does something
really stupid, then?" I replied that, I THINK, the whole point is that
in respectful families, the kids have NO NEED to do anything stupid.
But I'd ask....
<snip>

What if you did something really stupid, what would you want to happen. What if you broke a dish or got distracted while you were creating something and glued a piece of paper to the floor? What would you want to have happen? Would you want to be lectured or grounded or made to replace the goods? Or would you want to have help cleaning up the mess and moving forward from that moment? People do stupid things, usually accidentally. It is best if you just help to minimize the costs of the stupidity and move on. I tend to feel pretty stupid after I've done something stupid, having someone else tell me what an idiot I am just makes me angry and defensive and usually I shout back.

<snip>
And then I thought of parents I know whose kids bite or hit other
kids, and I wondered how you all would handle that if it were YOUR
child...
<snip>

When Simon or Linnaea are getting angry toward each other, or are having a day that is more emotional than usual I tend to be fairly constantly present. I also make sure that I offer lots of distractions and food and drink over the course of the day. Sometimes being frustrated comes from being hungry or tired or sick or bored (as Linnaea has told me, she has added Bored to the HALT acronym (Hungry Angry Lonely Tired)). And if I'm around I can keep things from getting to the breaking point and if they do break, I can take the hit while protecting the other person. If I had a child who was likely to go from happy to hitting quickly I would be present a lot of the time. When Linnaea was younger that was really important. I don't think they need to work through those things alone. I am very present when there is a disagreement over things or time or whatever going on. They are both good at coming up with alternatives, but if they are in the middle of being
angry and resentful and furious it is really hard to calm down enough to think of another way.

<snip>
And the part (don't remember if Sandra or someone she was quoting said
it) about LETTING yourself (as an adult) process your feelings instead
of trying to STOP the anger, to let it come, realize why it's there,
then let it go, might actually help HIM personally. He is a person who
reacts before he thinks sometimes, and never hurts people, but usually
says things he doesn't mean, or throws his tools or something. And he
doesn't like to do it, but doesn't know how to stop. So maybe this
will help him!
<snip>

Oh, I have that kind of anger. Less now. But I have broken a few things in my time. It is an awful thing to not know what to do with being angry. I'm really good at saying mean things. Maybe you could talk about that with him. Not to tell him how to be better in his own self, but how his angry overwhelms him and he's an adult. Maybe suggest that if you can be there for your children more and be more present when they are working through something that they won't end up with the anger that plays out in those hugely explosive and scary and hurtful ways.

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

**I think I'm hitting on some key elements that finally clicked for me
tonight, as I was trying to explain some stuff to him, and then he asked me, "Well,
what happens when the kid goes off and does something really stupid, then?" I
replied that, I THINK, the whole point is that in respectful families, the
kids have NO NEED to do anything stupid. But I'd ask....**

Well, no. :) Connected parenting isn't going to guarantee that your kid won't
ever do something thoughtless, or careless, or even incredibly dangerous.
About the only thing you can say for sure is that it's unlikely a child will be
doing any particular something out of a need to rebel or fight back against the
parent.

What happens when the kid blows it IS the point. It helps to think about what
kinds of reactions would help *you* in the aftermath of a situation where you
had done something that turned out badly. I've had the opportunity to think
on this a lot recently, after attempting to drive my van through standing water
in a flooded parking lot that turned out to be *much* deeper than it looked.
The engine was destroyed, and because there was a LOT of water everywhere in
the area that weekend, the insurance company is being slower than normal to do
everything, including deciding that my beloved 11yo van isn't worth much at
all. :(

A really poor decision of mine has had big effects on the whole family. My
husband has been taking the train to work so the rest of us can use his car. He
has to wake up earlier, walk a mile to the station, walk nearly two miles to
work from the other station. He gets home later than usual. Some of the things
our kids wanted to do have had to be rescheduled or cancelled because we just
couldn't figure out a way to get everyone where they wanted to be. We're going
to have to spend a lot of money for another vehicle, when we had thought we'd
have a few years yet before we'd replace the van - it was in outstanding
shape right up until I ran it into the water, and I'd just had new tires put on it
in May. We're having a lot of trouble finding the time to go out looking at
vehicles without feeling the pressure to just make a decision right now.

I've been feeling sad and mad at myself and pretty dumb, but I've also been
feeling SO incredibly loved because not one member of my family has been
anything but supportive. Nobody has asked how I could do something so stupid or what
was I thinking. Nobody has pointed out exactly where I went wrong and what I
should do in the future. Nobody has complained about how they've been
inconvienced or about how much this is going to cost us. Nobody has made jokes at my
expense. My husband has hugged me and told me that it will work out okay, that
he's happy because nobody got hurt or was ever in danger. He's also gently
reminded me of things I need to do to help us work out of this situation without
implying I was stupid or thoughtless because I hadn't remembered all of them
myself.

That's the kind of reaction our kids need when they blow it. Help and support
to think through what needs to be done. Hugs and appreciation that they are
still around for us to love. Support in fixing what needs to be fixed, or
mourning what can't be repaired.

It's SO easy to get derailed. The parent feels compelled to point out how
stupid the kid was and how lucky they are to be alive. The kid feels compelled to
protect himself by deflecting the criticism, protesting that he doesn't
understand what the big deal is or yelling in response. Everybody ends up hurt,
feeling angry and misunderstood. Whatever might have been learned from the
experience ends up buried under layers of blame and resentment. It doesn't have to
be that way.

Deborah in IL


**************
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

<snip>

I'm always interested in knowing why these ideas get people cranky
before it gets them euphoric. I think the ideas make them cranky,
but their seeing the improvements in their children and their
relationships with them brings them overwhelming joy. I could be
wrong.
<snip>

I think the challange makes them cranky. I think the idea that what they are doing now isn't good enough or isn't right makes them cranky. I'm on a list where I challanged someone's stance on replica guns for children and she and others on the list decided that I was judging her parenting and only believed that there was one good way to be a parent and that I should know that this mother was an amazing mother, and on and on. I had challenged her words but she felt that I was challenging all that she was and all that she believed in.

Maybe it has to do with confidence, too. I know what I am doing works. Some of it is because I see it working in my own family. I watch the joy that you mention overwhelming us all. It is fantastic. But it is also because I know a lot of people who are also living this life and parenting in this way and I see how it works in their own families and so I am not disturbed when my parenting or my range of food available or my policy on television watching is questioned, because I am very, very confident in what I am doing. And maybe that shakes people as well.

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

<snip>

Secondly, I have medical conditions that might make it
impossible to follow her closely (and my other daughter, for that
matter) in the future. Should the case ever arise that (God forbid)
I'm no longer around, I want her to be able to take up learning under
someone else's tutelage or a school (again, God forbid) without too
much grief. This is the one area I know she might lack otherwise.

I know many of you will have your opinions on this and I welcome
them. I'd like to fully unschool her, but I also need to resolve it
with my life's circumstances.
<snip>

It must be scary to imagine your children growing up without you. There are people on this list who have lost family members. I bet you every one of them is happier for the memories they have of an unschooled life filled with joy and laughter and presence and play than they worry about anything that they didn't teach or learn in those precious moments. I imagine that your daughters will rather that they remember you as this wonderfully joyful parent than that they will rally against you for not preparing them well enough for a possible return to school. Parent them with the wonderful freedom that could come with knowing that every moment is a gift. Don't prepare them for your absence, let them live with your joy!

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-. I'm on a list where I challanged someone's stance on replica
guns for children and she and others on the list decided that I was
judging her parenting and only believed that there was one good way
to be a parent and that I should know that this mother was an amazing
mother, and on and on.-=-

Did you send her this?
http://sandradodd.com/peace/guns

Who could look at that beautiful ray gun, or the smiling faces of
those hippie kids with big water guns, and not melt with sticky
sweetness?

There's more violence in shame and control than in any gun that's
just lying there being metal and wood. (or solid stainless steel, or
some high-tech spy-class polymer-whatever).

I'm going to add "you're an amazing mother" to my support page.
http://sandradodd.com/support

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

I didn't mention that page. I'd forgotten it. But, I don't know if the images would have helped. Given the sentiments expressed by at least one member, that they don't allow any violent games to be played, not even imaginary sword fighting, I think there is almost a religious thing going on. It reminded me a lot of anti-masturbation rhetoric, which leaves the victim feeling frustrated, weird, wrong and guilty. I think violent imaginings and play, like the story of pretending PawPaw was dead, are a normal thing, a development thing, a biological thing. I think outlawing those things is a really good way to make a child feel really, really wrong.

Schuyler



----------------
Did you send her this?
http://sandradodd.com/peace/guns

Who could look at that beautiful ray gun, or the smiling faces of
those hippie kids with big water guns, and not melt with sticky
sweetness?

There's more violence in shame and control than in any gun that's
just lying there being metal and wood. (or solid stainless steel, or
some high-tech spy-class polymer-whatever).

I'm going to add "you're an amazing mother" to my support page.
http://sandradodd.com/support

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I replied that, I THINK, the whole point is that in respectful
families, the
kids have NO NEED to do anything stupid. But I'd ask....**

-=-Well, no. :) -=-

I think a point was missed, maybe (maybe not).

When kids are in school and controlled and held down and back,
sometimes the do seem to have a need to do something stupid. If a
parent makes rules that make the child feel powerless and little, the
only way that child can feel powerful and big is to break those
rules. If the parent creates a situation in which the choice is that
the parent wins and the child loses, then the child, to be whole and
real, will NEED to win sometimes.



-=-Connected parenting isn't going to guarantee that your kid won't
ever do something thoughtless, or careless, or even incredibly
dangerous. -=-

But they won't do it out of need.



Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-He has to wake up earlier, walk a mile to the station, -=-


Couldn't you drive him there and pick him up? "Has to" should be
saved for special occasions, I think.



Sandra








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

I couldn't help it and maybe I'm wrong or a little Freudian. Anti-gun and
-masturbation for a boy especially ... yikes. I'm sure some of those homes
have both philosophies.

~Katherine



On 9/24/08, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>
> I didn't mention that page. I'd forgotten it. But, I don't know if the
> images would have helped. Given the sentiments expressed by at least one
> member, that they don't allow any violent games to be played, not even
> imaginary sword fighting, I think there is almost a religious thing going
> on. It reminded me a lot of anti-masturbation rhetoric, which leaves the
> victim feeling frustrated, weird, wrong and guilty. I think violent
> imaginings and play, like the story of pretending PawPaw was dead, are a
> normal thing, a development thing, a biological thing. I think outlawing
> those things is a really good way to make a child feel really, really wrong.
>
>
> Schuyler
>
> ----------------
> Did you send her this?
> http://sandradodd.com/peace/guns
>
> Who could look at that beautiful ray gun, or the smiling faces of
> those hippie kids with big water guns, and not melt with sticky
> sweetness?
>
> There's more violence in shame and control than in any gun that's
> just lying there being metal and wood. (or solid stainless steel, or
> some high-tech spy-class polymer-whatever).
>
> I'm going to add "you're an amazing mother" to my support page.
> http://sandradodd.com/support
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Both as a child and adult, I think being an unschooled child could have
prevented me from having a need to do stupid silly things to "rebel."

~Katherine




On 9/24/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I replied that, I THINK, the whole point is that in respectful
> families, the
> kids have NO NEED to do anything stupid. But I'd ask....**
>
> -=-Well, no. :) -=-
>
> I think a point was missed, maybe (maybe not).
>
> When kids are in school and controlled and held down and back,
> sometimes the do seem to have a need to do something stupid. If a
> parent makes rules that make the child feel powerless and little, the
> only way that child can feel powerful and big is to break those
> rules. If the parent creates a situation in which the choice is that
> the parent wins and the child loses, then the child, to be whole and
> real, will NEED to win sometimes.
>
> -=-Connected parenting isn't going to guarantee that your kid won't
> ever do something thoughtless, or careless, or even incredibly
> dangerous. -=-
>
> But they won't do it out of need.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Sep 23, 2008, at 8:41 PM, prism7513 wrote:

> So what did you all do, or DO you do? Did you dh's or partners read
> everything you did? Or do you sit down and talk about it?

My husband never read anything and didn't understand what I was trying
to do. And he felt attacked when we talked about it - or bored.

He slowly caught on.

In the midst of something, you can use some pre-thought-out phrases to
use that might help him see what you're trying to do.

Say you're all sitting around the living room - he's watching Monday
night football, kids are building with legos on the floor. They jump
up to do something else, paint pictures, let's say, and leave a big
bunch of legos scattered around the floor, right in his line of vision
between him and the tv <G>. He yells after then, "Hey, come back and
clean these up before you go off and make another mess somewhere
else." You deftly step in and start cleaning them up, with a big smile
and a positive attitude. And you say, "Hey you guys, let's first get
these ready for the next time you want to use them and then I'll help
you get all the paint out in the kitchen." In the meantime, you've
probably already almost finished putting them away, so there really
isn't much for the kids to do. Everybody is happy.

This worked wonders at my house - my husband got to see how to ask the
kids to do something without creating a power struggle, which is how
his usual demands nearly always ended up.

He noticed that I asked for much less but got cooperation when I
asked. He demanded and got resistance and anger. At first he blamed me
for the resistance he experienced because "I" didn't make them do
enough. He was right, in a way. Because of the way I was treating
them, they weren't willing to accept the way he was treating them. So
he was a bit resentful and stopped asking them to do things. Then he
started asking me to ask them to do things <G>. When he did that, I
would usually ask the kids to help me, but be okay doing it myself if
they didn't.

Once in a while my husband will say, "Don't do it FOR them, they need
to learn to clean up after themselves."

When he says that in front of the kids, my response is, "Oh, that's
okay, I don't mind at all because I'm glad that in this family we all
help each other out in so many ways."

If he says it to me privately, I tell him that that I'm more concerned
with long-term goals than with who cleans up the legos right now and
that, long term, the kids will become more helpful people if they
experience us being helpful to them.

That theme of looking at longer-term goals seemed to really make the
most sense to him of anything else I tried in the way of explanation.

My husband certainly noticed that my interactions with the kids were
more harmonious than his. He also noticed, though, that I "waited on
them" a lot, whereas he felt like kids should be asked to "wait on"
adults more often than not. That comes from his childhood in Iran
where kids were pretty much treated like little servants. He couldn't
wait to be a grown-up so that he could be the one giving orders. So
that feels like a sort of dirty trick was played on him - he doesn't
want to feel like a servant to his kids now that he's the grown up. It
took a while and still he sometimes feels like we parents are going
too far, doing too much for the kids, not asking enough of them.

It can help a relationship a lot if you realize that he is not you, he
isn't going to ever BE you. His relationship with the kids belongs to
them, not to you. Even though my husband was never totally on board
with certain things - he came slowly around to far more respectful
parenting than he probably ever thought he would. He DID emulate me at
times. And every once in a while I'd give him a concrete suggestion -
to make things better, not to make him a perfect imitation of me <G>.
For example, one idea I got from the "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen
and Listen so Kids Will Talk" book, was "use a word." I thought that
would really help him. I told him about it and he immediately tried it
out. Roya walked by with a wet towel and draped it over the back of
the couch while she talked to us. Then she walked off, leaving it
there. My husband's cue to launch into a lecture about why she
shouldn't leave wet towels on the furniture and her to get huffy about
being lectured at and him angry at the way she talked back to him and
her grabbing the towel, angrily, and flinging it into the bathroom and
slamming her bedroom door. Over a wet towel on the back of the couch?
I could see it coming.

But this time he just very nicely said, "Towel," and Roya turned
around, smiled and said, "Oh, thanks," and took it off with her. My
husband about fell out of his chair. My credibility went up about a
thousand percent right then and there.

And the kids adore him and know what a wonderful and sweet heart he
has and they find some of his "old country" beliefs and behaviors
very charming, too.

-pam

[email protected]

-=-He has to wake up earlier, walk a mile to the station, -=-


**Couldn't you drive him there and pick him up? "Has to" should be
saved for special occasions, I think.**

Sheesh, Sandra, my blowing up my car qualifies as a special occasion if
anything does. :)

Yes, he HAS TO wake up much earlier because it takes twice as long to get to
work riding the train than walking from the station. I pick him up in the
evening.

Good lord, I write a long post about the love and joy of accepting what is
instead of blaming in a situation in which there is plenty of blame that I could
be heaped with, and you pick at me for one Has To. Clearly the point just
went right past everyone. Sorry.

Deborah


**************
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips
and calculators.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Sheesh, Sandra, my blowing up my car qualifies as a special
occasion if
anything does. :)-=-

I know, but my thought was if he's leaving his car at home for you
guys to use, he's also chosen to walk to the station rather than ask
you to wake up and take him.

-=-Yes, he HAS TO wake up much earlier because it takes twice as long
to get to

work riding the train than walking from the station-=-

The earlier part I understood completely. The having to walk a mile
when there was a car running at the house did confuse me.



-=-Good lord, I write a long post about the love and joy of accepting
what is

instead of blaming in a situation in which there is plenty of blame
that I could
be heaped with, and you pick at me for one Has To. Clearly the point
just
went right past everyone. Sorry.-=-

I don't think the point went past. It was sweet!

I mention just about every "has to" that doesn't seem to be a has
to. That's because it's about clarity more than about individual
details.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

prism7513

>
> Oooh!! Is it like the cartoon here?
>
> http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/09/blog-post.html
>
> I'm always interested in knowing why these ideas get people cranky
> before it gets them euphoric. I think the ideas make them cranky,
> but their seeing the improvements in their children and their
> relationships with them brings them overwhelming joy. I could be
> wrong.
>

That was one of the pages I read last night, and I was trying to think
if it was a correct application. In a way, Yes, and in another way, No...

My husband always felt stupid growing up and still believes it
sometimes. I'm not sure why, but he honestly thinks the teachers
thought of him that way. Regardless, he is always trying to "prove"
himself, even if subconsciously, so that people will say "Oh, he knows
what he's talking about!"

*I*, on the other hand, always got the opposite. "Oh, you're so smart"
"Hey, Grandpa, did you hear what she said? She memorized such & such
perfectly!!" and the comments in my yearbooks from kids who couldn't
care less about me or want to get to know me (in the private school)
were always, more or less, "To the smart and nice girl."

And then in high school I was even valedictorian (which I refused to
speak because I hate public speaking and I had only attended the
school for 4 years, so I felt that another person who knew most of the
peers would be a better fit.)

Anyway, I got tired of everyone telling me how smart I was, because I
knew it wasn't intelligence I was showing, it was my memorization
skills and homework assignments done on time. Something anyone can do,
really.

Yet at the same time, when someone points out mistakes to me, or
critiques me, even gently, I absolutely dissolve. I feel stupid, I
cringe, I feel worthless.

I DO want to learn, but don't like hearing that I NEED to learn. I
liked feeling superior, even if I didn't believe it. If that even
makes sense.

Deb

prism7513

HIs perspective often helps me to see more clearly. If David is being
angrier or shorter, more terse, with Simon and Linnaea I'll sometimes
ask if he's tired, not meanly, not naggingly, just as a sort of nudge.

I love when Jim is the calming influence, as well. I still get that
tendency to say "No, here's how *I* do such-and-such" and then I
remember to back off and watch how he adds a dimension to parenting
that I can't. It makes me wish he could be here more :) And I DO hate
nagging him. My mom always nagged my dad, and I hate it. And of course
I turned out just.like.her. And so I have tried, step by step, to
change all those things in me that mirror what I disliked about her.

>
> What if you did something really stupid, what would you want to
happen. What if you broke a dish or got distracted while you were
creating something and glued a piece of paper to the floor? What would
you want to have happen? Would you want to be lectured or grounded or
made to replace the goods? Or would you want to have help cleaning up
the mess and moving forward from that moment? People do stupid things,
usually accidentally. It is best if you just help to minimize the
costs of the stupidity and move on. I tend to feel pretty stupid after
I've done something stupid, having someone else tell me what an idiot
I am just makes me angry and defensive and usually I shout back.
>

This is EXACTLY how I took the example that I was reading when it
"clicked" for me. Both Jim and I are horrible about sometimes
sarcastically throwing it in the childrens' faces that they screwed
up, and I immediately feel bad when I see their faces. This, I think,
is huge for me. To HONESTLY put myself in their shoes.

I'm not sure WHEN or WHERE we got the idea (we being universal, not
just Jim and I) that children are SUPPOSED to feel less, or inferior,
than adults. I can't even think of anywhere in the Bible (if religion
had a part to play) were this is advocated. In fact, being religious,
I honestly believe that the part where Jesus told the disciples to
back off and let the little tikes approach him shows he WAS supportive
of children, much like he was actually supportive of women, even
though the men of the time treated them like property. (the whole
stone throwing incident with the men who accused the adulteress but
somehow left the adulterer out of it.)

Anyway, it's a huge mindset to change from thinking, "But they're
kids, they don't deserve to have the same rights as adults. They
aren't supposed to have the freedoms we do because they can't handle
it." Instead, it's now "They have every right, or maybe more so, to be
treated with kindness and respect. They deserve the freedom to make
choices with us as their guides, leading them to make wise decisions
and protecting them from the unwise ones until they are old enough to
learn from them" (at least, the way I see it, as my babies can not yet
make the decision to walk towards the road without dire consequences,
so I pull them away. While my older ones DO go near the road, with my
watchful eye, and a few times I HAVE had to remind them that cars are
coming...but they are very good at staying on the side now and handle
it quite well.

Deb

> <snip>
> And then I thought of parents I know whose kids bite or hit other
> kids, and I wondered how you all would handle that if it were YOUR
> child...
> <snip>
>
> When Simon or Linnaea are getting angry toward each other, or are
having a day that is more emotional than usual I tend to be fairly
constantly present. I also make sure that I offer lots of distractions
and food and drink over the course of the day. Sometimes being
frustrated comes from being hungry or tired or sick or bored (as
Linnaea has told me, she has added Bored to the HALT acronym (Hungry
Angry Lonely Tired)). And if I'm around I can keep things from getting
to the breaking point and if they do break, I can take the hit while
protecting the other person. If I had a child who was likely to go
from happy to hitting quickly I would be present a lot of the time.
When Linnaea was younger that was really important. I don't think they
need to work through those things alone. I am very present when there
is a disagreement over things or time or whatever going on. They are
both good at coming up with alternatives, but if they are in the
middle of being
> angry and resentful and furious it is really hard to calm down
enough to think of another way.
>
> <snip>
> And the part (don't remember if Sandra or someone she was quoting said
> it) about LETTING yourself (as an adult) process your feelings instead
> of trying to STOP the anger, to let it come, realize why it's there,
> then let it go, might actually help HIM personally. He is a person who
> reacts before he thinks sometimes, and never hurts people, but usually
> says things he doesn't mean, or throws his tools or something. And he
> doesn't like to do it, but doesn't know how to stop. So maybe this
> will help him!
> <snip>
>
> Oh, I have that kind of anger. Less now. But I have broken a few
things in my time. It is an awful thing to not know what to do with
being angry. I'm really good at saying mean things. Maybe you could
talk about that with him. Not to tell him how to be better in his own
self, but how his angry overwhelms him and he's an adult. Maybe
suggest that if you can be there for your children more and be more
present when they are working through something that they won't end up
with the anger that plays out in those hugely explosive and scary and
hurtful ways.
>
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

prism7513

> I've been feeling sad and mad at myself and pretty dumb, but I've
also been
> feeling SO incredibly loved because not one member of my family has
been
> anything but supportive. Nobody has asked how I could do something
so stupid or what
> was I thinking.

This reminds me of a story Dr. Kevin Leman told about the time he came
home to find that his wife had backed their car right through the
CLOSED garage door....he just walked in, gave his (sobbing) wife a
hug, and acted like nothing unusual had happened. He never even
mentioned it to her (even though he fixed it later.)

It also, sadly, brings to mind the horrible tragedy with Stephen
Curtis Chapman's daughter (his 17 year old son accidentally backed
over her, resulting in her death.) On Larry King Live, Larry asked the
family if they ever blamed the son for the accident, and the mother
immediately says, "No. Not ever."

I actually have a hard time believing it, not because it isn't true,
but because of my OWN heart. For some reason, part of me WOULD blame
him, accident though it was. I'm not sure why this is rooted in me (I
really, REALLY don't like it!) But it's there. It's one of the HUGE
things I want to change about me.

I really do know my parents love me and did everything they thought
they were supposed to do, to the best of their ability. But yet I am
so hung up on guilt and wanting to please people, and pinning blame on
things gone wrong....such negativity, all the time....

I even hear their voices in my head (mostly my mother's) when I read
these articles or the discussion points here. I hear their sarcasm and
their disbelief and shock...it's all still in my head...and I feel
guilty for even THINKING things like "Yeah, maybe filthy language
isn't necessarily filthy, but appropriate only in certain times and
places..."

Another thing Dr. Leman says is that when you marry, you bring to your
marriage bed your spouses whole family - so in effect you are sleeping
with your in-laws. what he meant, of course, is that your spouse has
things ingrained in him from his parents that will carry over into
YOUR marriage....In my case it's MY parents that are carrying over
into my parenting...

Deb

prism7513

--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> I couldn't help it and maybe I'm wrong or a little Freudian.
Anti-gun and
> -masturbation for a boy especially ... yikes. I'm sure some of
those homes
> have both philosophies.
>

What I find strange is that my brother-in-law's girlfriend is one of
those "he can't play with guns in my house" and "don't point it at
people" (well, isn't that the point of "bad guy vs. good guy play????)

But yet she's totally not religious, she even LIKES to hunt deer, and
I'm sure has no issue with the masturbation. (which I think is one of
the most saddest things religion has done to young men...AND women...)

My daughter went through a whole year of asking about death and dying
and when SHE would die (broke my heart to hear it, though...just
thinking about it, since I couldn't guarantee her it would be a long
time from now, though I told her I sure hoped it would be.)

Anyway, she at one point said that her girlfriend (imaginary friend)
had a sword and a gun and she kills bad dogs. Now, this is funny if
you had met my 3 year old at the time since she SEEMS all sweet and
innocence, and we loved it! My mom, of course, was appalled, and
probably wondered WHAT we had let her watch, but I knew she was simply
learning, in her way, what DYING was, and was exploring that in play.
Just as now my 4 year old boy thinks it's hilarious to talk about
peeing and pooping in one's pants.

It's amazing to watch them play, and the reasons they come up with for
the heavy topics of life.

Deb

Sandra Dodd

-=-.and I feel
guilty for even THINKING things like "Yeah, maybe filthy language
isn't necessarily filthy, but appropriate only in certain times and
places..."-=-

I don't think you should feel guilty about that thought.

If someone does everything just as her parents did or wanted her to,
that's limited. If someone resolves to do NOTHING the parents did or
wanted, it's just as limited.

There are times and places for all different kinds of language,
clothing, posture, behavior, music, art... The same group of people
might be a wedding this week and a funeral next week, but they won't
act the same or speak in the same tones of voice or eat the same
kinds of foods.

http://sandradodd.com/mindfulparenting

http://sandradodd.com/choices

http://sandradodd.com/balance

(Some of that's my writing and lots is not.)



Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

The more consciously (mindfully) you're able to become in decision making,
the less conflicted you will be.

~Katherine




On 9/24/08, prism7513 <penley75@...> wrote:
>
>
> > I've been feeling sad and mad at myself and pretty dumb, but I've
> also been
> > feeling SO incredibly loved because not one member of my family has
> been
> > anything but supportive. Nobody has asked how I could do something
> so stupid or what
> > was I thinking.
>
> This reminds me of a story Dr. Kevin Leman told about the time he came
> home to find that his wife had backed their car right through the
> CLOSED garage door....he just walked in, gave his (sobbing) wife a
> hug, and acted like nothing unusual had happened. He never even
> mentioned it to her (even though he fixed it later.)
>
> It also, sadly, brings to mind the horrible tragedy with Stephen
> Curtis Chapman's daughter (his 17 year old son accidentally backed
> over her, resulting in her death.) On Larry King Live, Larry asked the
> family if they ever blamed the son for the accident, and the mother
> immediately says, "No. Not ever."
>
> I actually have a hard time believing it, not because it isn't true,
> but because of my OWN heart. For some reason, part of me WOULD blame
> him, accident though it was. I'm not sure why this is rooted in me (I
> really, REALLY don't like it!) But it's there. It's one of the HUGE
> things I want to change about me.
>
> I really do know my parents love me and did everything they thought
> they were supposed to do, to the best of their ability. But yet I am
> so hung up on guilt and wanting to please people, and pinning blame on
> things gone wrong....such negativity, all the time....
>
> I even hear their voices in my head (mostly my mother's) when I read
> these articles or the discussion points here. I hear their sarcasm and
> their disbelief and shock...it's all still in my head...and I feel
> guilty for even THINKING things like "Yeah, maybe filthy language
> isn't necessarily filthy, but appropriate only in certain times and
> places..."
>
> Another thing Dr. Leman says is that when you marry, you bring to your
> marriage bed your spouses whole family - so in effect you are sleeping
> with your in-laws. what he meant, of course, is that your spouse has
> things ingrained in him from his parents that will carry over into
> YOUR marriage....In my case it's MY parents that are carrying over
> into my parenting...
>
> Deb
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-The more consciously (mindfully) you're able to become in decision
making,
the less conflicted you will be.-=-



Sometimes, I think, people who are seeing that from a Christian
point of view have a harder time than others.

The idea that there's an objective good and bad is extreme. But
going to the opposite of that, the (very bad) idea that there's no
way to tell good from bad, is just as extreme.

First people need to know what they want. I don't mean what they
want exactly ten years from now. This is another extreme
interpretation of something true and simple, that you can visualize
yourself a yacht and an Escalade and you're guaranteed to get them
unless your visualizations were faulty.

But if you're living in the realm of priorities that have to do with
relationships and a peaceful family and a lot of learning, you will
then know right from wrong for you in that situation because you will
be able to make the more peaceful, learning-rich choices.



So the more mindful and conscious you are, the less conflicted, which
is what Katherine said. I'm not disputing it, I'm trying to put it
on a glass shelf with a little spotlight and a docent explaining it.
I guess I'm the docent in my museum moment.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

That does make more sense to expound it that way, Sandra ....

The more aware and mindful we can be while creating __peaceful and
learning-rich moments__ within our home and our family interactions, the
less conflicted our decision making will be too.

(I need to think of it that way because action is better than abstraction,
which I tend to go toward... having had much more experience in purely
thinking instead of thinking in order to know how I want to act. I think
that's a direct result of not having a lot of experience making decisions
and doing things when I was younger.)

~Katherine



On 9/25/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-The more consciously (mindfully) you're able to become in decision
> making,
> the less conflicted you will be.-=-
>
> Sometimes, I think, people who are seeing that from a Christian
> point of view have a harder time than others.
>
> The idea that there's an objective good and bad is extreme. But
> going to the opposite of that, the (very bad) idea that there's no
> way to tell good from bad, is just as extreme.
>
> First people need to know what they want. I don't mean what they
> want exactly ten years from now. This is another extreme
> interpretation of something true and simple, that you can visualize
> yourself a yacht and an Escalade and you're guaranteed to get them
> unless your visualizations were faulty.
>
> But if you're living in the realm of priorities that have to do with
> relationships and a peaceful family and a lot of learning, you will
> then know right from wrong for you in that situation because you will
> be able to make the more peaceful, learning-rich choices.
>
> So the more mindful and conscious you are, the less conflicted, which
> is what Katherine said. I'm not disputing it, I'm trying to put it
> on a glass shelf with a little spotlight and a docent explaining it.
> I guess I'm the docent in my museum moment.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-> First people need to know what they want. I don't mean what they
> want exactly ten years from now. This is another extreme
> interpretation of something true and simple, that you can visualize
> yourself a yacht and an Escalade and you're guaranteed to get them
> unless your visualizations were faulty.
>-=-



I was unclear.

I don't think that last statement is the true and simple thing. I
think the idea of visualizing a yacht and a luxury car is an extreme
interpretation (and not a good focus in life--see the story of King
Midas for remembering priorities, or the fairy tale "Toads and
Diamonds").

While it is VERY clear and true that deciding to make more peaceful
choices leads to peace, choosing to make more-Escalade choices might
not lead to an Escalade OR to peace.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laura Beaudin

Thanks for these resources, Sandra...some very good points were made
in those articles...especially the one that highlights that if a
child is truly unschooling, it doesn't really matter where they are
intellectually compared to their peers, that IQ standards are only
really needed to figure out where to farm the kids out in school. If
she's learning out of interest and through life experiences, she will
learn what she needs when she's ready. Am I getting the point?

I'm still new at so many aspects of unschooling, but I'm really
starting to see a difference when I apply some of the concepts. Just
removing the word 'no' from my vocabulary seems to bring about
amazing changes and not the negativity which I expected. I'm the
first to admit that I'm still quite green in this area, but I hope to
get tons of knowledge from this list. I've bookmarked your link so
that I can read the articles there when I have some more free time.

I started a blog last week to document my daughters journey through
life/homeschooling/unschooling...partly for my family to follow, and
partly to see how they grow over the years. Once Dawn (these are not
their real names, btw) is school-aged, it will also serve as a
portfolio for her school board.

Laura


>Before using that term on this list again (which you might want to do
>anyway, or not), please read these two pages:
>
><http://sandradodd.com/giftedness>http://sandradodd.com/giftedness
>
>http://sandradodd.com/intelligence
>
>T

Don't let school get in the way of your education!" --unknown
Visit Practical Homeschooling and view our September contest for a
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Practical Homeschooling: http://www.practical-homeschooling.org
Works in Progress: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Laura.Beaudin


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Sandra Dodd

-=If she's learning out of interest and through life experiences, she
will
learn what she needs when she's ready. Am I getting the point?-=-

Yes, but even more than "learn what she needs when she's ready," she
will learn all KINDS of things no one thought in advance that she
needed, and every bit of that makes it easier to learn other things.

When people learn, they're making connections to what they already
know, so the more one knows from ANY source (lyrics, movies, games,
toys, local parks, the grocery store), the more hooks to hang new
information there will be. This is why it's detrimental for
unschooling when parents try to sort "good information" from
"worthless/fluff/crap" (The "crap" is a quote, and from more than
one parent, in writing, I'm sorry to say.)

Those families in which a child's access to information and
experience is limited will have children whose knowledge of the world
is more limited, and so whose learning will not be as quick or easy
or fun.

-=-I've bookmarked your link so that I can read the articles there
when I have some more free time.-=-

If you're going to unschool, you can't think in terms of "free time"
as much anymore. All of your time will become learning time. If
reading on my site or Joyce's brings amazing changes and less
negativity, then doing that will be part of your job as a unschooling
parent. It's not fluff for free time. It's preparation for the
unschooling day.

On Joyce's front page these days there's information about making the
transition and saying yes.

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/

Sandra






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