Joel

Hi there.

I've been following this list for some time now and find much of the
discussions fascinating to read and very insightful.

But I would love to know your opinions on the the matter of unschooling and
a parent's (or guardian's) responsibility in terms of providing (or
facilitating) social opportunities for the kids.

Here's the short story:

My husband and I are lucky enough to live in a very unique situation. We
are the live-in managers of a senior citizen apartment complex on a large
surburban campus. Needless to say, there are no children around to act as
playmates. (Except for, of course, the young-at-heart ones. (C:= ) Our son
is now approaching the age of 4 and (although he gets well with his little
sister who is 19 mo) we would love for him to have opportunities to meet
other kids on his own terms. We go to a lot of parks and the library (which
he enjoys a lot) but, when it comes to other kids, he's just not interested
in them- at least, in interacting with them. He does love to observe,
though.

(The other night, we went to a park in order to meet with a bunch of moms
who are of a Natural Parenting bent (like we are) and on the way home I
asked him if he enjoyed his time there. His response from the back seat was,
"Well, I enjoyed the park and I liked climbing with N (his sister) and I
liked meeting the ladies. But I didn't like the kids."

I asked him what he didn't like about the kids and his response was, "Well,
I don't know them." (He has met them several times at other, earlier
events.)

What I will mention is that he does get along very well with adults and,
often, I think that most other kids around his age just seem unpredictable
to him. He tends to be quiet around most people and keep to himself and
doesn't 'get it' when other kids do things like throw toys around, yell
things and push or try and shoot at him with pretend guns. (Not aggression,
just playing.) I've got no concerns about his play skills, for those who
might wonder, we do get quite a bit of superheroes and pretending/role
playing, yelling and noise when we are at home.

My question to you guys is this:

If (at this point in time) his natural bent appears in the direction of only
wanting to play with his sister, by himself or interacting with adults
should we respect this to the point of abandoning (for now) any ideas of
'drumming up' other potential kids for him to play with? Or, on the other
hand, should we keep at it casually? The idea here would be that, perhaps,
the more exposures he gets to the same kids over time (so that he knows them
and they become predictable) will make him more comfortable and willing to
interact with them?

I will mention that (and this is probably not a good thing LOL) both my
husband and I are not real 'social' people. We have very few friends we get
together with and what we enjoy, most of all, is just having quiet times at
home with our family. Of course, I know that this is probably something
we've modeled that he is picking up on, which is fine. But I am very willing
to go out of my own comfort zone and 'schmooze' a bit because I would like
him (if he desires it) to be able to have friends if he wants them. ( And I
don't want our homebody tendancies to dictate what he is limited by.)

We would love to hear your ideas on this one.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-But I would love to know your opinions on the the matter of
unschooling and
a parent's (or guardian's) responsibility in terms of providing (or
facilitating) social opportunities for the kids.-=-

I'd go by his cues and clues.

-=-I will mention that (and this is probably not a good thing LOL)
both my

husband and I are not real 'social' people. We have very few friends
we get
together with and what we enjoy, most of all, is just having quiet
times at
home with our family. Of course, I know that this is probably something
we've modeled that he is picking up on-=-

It could be genetic. If you're happy as you are, it's quite likely
he's happy as he is.



Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna

From: "Joanna" <ridingmom@...>
To: "Joanna Murphy" <ridingmom@...>
Date: August 20, 2008 09:29:05 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Fwd: Children and Friends

I think you have a good handle on the situation with your son, and that what you have described sounds like a dance that is exactly what is in order. You don't want to "force" your son into situations with other children, but on the other hand you don't necessarily want to have him take on your own social tendencies. One thing I would add is that he is unlikely to be taking on your stuff because they are who they are. Since you are providing him with opportunities to be around other children, you can be fairly sure that if he wanted to play with them he would. Keep following his cues.

On the third hand, parks can be intimidating for some children, and it's possible that he could do better playing in a home with a family that he knows well and feels comfortable with. And on the fourth hand :-) I found with my son that he really wasn't interested in other children until he was much older--he did find them more of a bother than they were worth to him. He really enjoyed the company of other adults, like his grandparents, who were interested in listening to him, interacting with him and letting him win all the games. Playing with other boys at that age was fraught with conflict and competing desires.

So it sounds to me like you are on the right track with how you are looking at things--keeping his preferences in mind, offering opportunities, and looking at what influences might be playing into things.

Joanna

Margaret

I think that going with what your child seems to want and is happy
with is the way to go.

That said, my daughter is very social and even for her playing in a
group of people she doesn't know isn't something that she enjoys.
When we are meeting a new friend, a one on one get together at our
house works MUCH better.

Also, a friend who is a little older might be more fun for your son.
He might enjoy it.

I wouldn't push him, but it can be nice to have friends who are kids
and I think I would try some situations that he is more likely to
enjoy.

Margaret
(dd 5, ds 2.5)

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Joel <monkeydas@...> wrote:
> Hi there.
>
> I've been following this list for some time now and find much of the
> discussions fascinating to read and very insightful.
>
> But I would love to know your opinions on the the matter of unschooling and
> a parent's (or guardian's) responsibility in terms of providing (or
> facilitating) social opportunities for the kids.
>
> Here's the short story:
>
> My husband and I are lucky enough to live in a very unique situation. We
> are the live-in managers of a senior citizen apartment complex on a large
> surburban campus. Needless to say, there are no children around to act as
> playmates. (Except for, of course, the young-at-heart ones. (C:= ) Our son
> is now approaching the age of 4 and (although he gets well with his little
> sister who is 19 mo) we would love for him to have opportunities to meet
> other kids on his own terms. We go to a lot of parks and the library (which
> he enjoys a lot) but, when it comes to other kids, he's just not interested
> in them- at least, in interacting with them. He does love to observe,
> though.
>
> (The other night, we went to a park in order to meet with a bunch of moms
> who are of a Natural Parenting bent (like we are) and on the way home I
> asked him if he enjoyed his time there. His response from the back seat was,
> "Well, I enjoyed the park and I liked climbing with N (his sister) and I
> liked meeting the ladies. But I didn't like the kids."
>
> I asked him what he didn't like about the kids and his response was, "Well,
> I don't know them." (He has met them several times at other, earlier
> events.)
>
> What I will mention is that he does get along very well with adults and,
> often, I think that most other kids around his age just seem unpredictable
> to him. He tends to be quiet around most people and keep to himself and
> doesn't 'get it' when other kids do things like throw toys around, yell
> things and push or try and shoot at him with pretend guns. (Not aggression,
> just playing.) I've got no concerns about his play skills, for those who
> might wonder, we do get quite a bit of superheroes and pretending/role
> playing, yelling and noise when we are at home.
>
> My question to you guys is this:
>
> If (at this point in time) his natural bent appears in the direction of only
> wanting to play with his sister, by himself or interacting with adults
> should we respect this to the point of abandoning (for now) any ideas of
> 'drumming up' other potential kids for him to play with? Or, on the other
> hand, should we keep at it casually? The idea here would be that, perhaps,
> the more exposures he gets to the same kids over time (so that he knows them
> and they become predictable) will make him more comfortable and willing to
> interact with them?
>
> I will mention that (and this is probably not a good thing LOL) both my
> husband and I are not real 'social' people. We have very few friends we get
> together with and what we enjoy, most of all, is just having quiet times at
> home with our family. Of course, I know that this is probably something
> we've modeled that he is picking up on, which is fine. But I am very willing
> to go out of my own comfort zone and 'schmooze' a bit because I would like
> him (if he desires it) to be able to have friends if he wants them. ( And I
> don't want our homebody tendancies to dictate what he is limited by.)
>
> We would love to hear your ideas on this one.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Verna

I think continuing to take him if he says he wants to go.. even if it
is just so he can play with his sister and talk to the other moms.. is
fine. If he doesnt want to go, then i wouldnt take him. Getting used
to the other kids couldnt hurt though as long as he doesnt feel
pressured. There may come a day he wants to play with them and if he
knows them by then, he would have the oppurtunity.
My daughter, in particular, does not like to play with more than a few
kids at a time.. especially unfamilier kids. She is actually very
social but just likes smaller groups.

Angela Shaw

My kids were a lot like yours when they were the same age. They were
happier to do family things together like go to the apple orchard and visit
with Grammy more so than visiting with groups of kids. They did like having
one friend over at a time but really were not comfortable in groups of kids.




Now at ages 11 (almost 12) and 13 they still like to play with one or two
friends at a time if given the choice, but they also are happy to be invited
to parties and even spent the night at a party recently where 9 girls pretty
much stayed up all night being crazy. When they were your child's age, a
couple of hours of a friend over was more than enough to satisfy them for a
couple days. Now they LOVE spending time with their friends and can't get
enough. I do everything in my power to facilitate their friendships. They
recently spent 5 days together with one friend. We spent two days with them
(they live on an island) and then the daughter came home with us on the
ferry for 3 nights. They had a great time.



For me it really comes down to listening to my kids and helping them meet
their own social needs rather than trying to do what society thinks children
need.



Angela Shaw

<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela Shaw

Joel wrote: (except it wasn't Joel, it was his wife.no name provided)



>I will mention that (and this is probably not a good thing LOL) both my
>husband and I are not real 'social' people. We have very few friends we get
>together with and what we enjoy, most of all, is just having quiet times at
>home with our family.



Joanna wrote:

>You don't want to "force" your son into situations with other children, but
on the other hand you don't necessarily want to have him take on your own
social tendencies.



A couple of questions popped into my mind when I read these posts.



For Joel's wife: If you enjoy having quiet time alone with your family, then
why do you see that as a negative? Different people are wired differently
when it comes to the amount of social time they want or need.



And Joanna, I would also ask you why you think it would be unwise for her
son to take on her social tendencies. The need for socialization seems to
me to be a very individual thing.



That said, my own children liked other children, they just didn't like a
group setting. That may be something for Joel's wife to consider about her
son.







Angela Shaw

<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna Murphy

> And Joanna, I would also ask you why you think it would be unwise for her
> son to take on her social tendencies. The need for socialization seems to
> me to be a very individual thing.
>
I think you already answered the question. I always try to keep in mind the balance between
what I think is a good way to be for me and whether and how my children might be different
and have different needs. If I'm not thinking about it I can tend to go on autopilot with life
and slow down in providing opportunities for them that might not be what I would do for
myself. So I was agreeing (I think) with the o.p. who wants to honor her son's individuality
with his social needs whether it resembles his parents or not.

[email protected]

i'm very social & DH was a bouncer when we met. r oldest son J , now 24 yo? was like that when he was young.< his brothers now r 18,1 2 & sis is 8> ?he attended a "boces" program in ny that was wonderful. J had the same reading decoding problem as Einstein & same IQ. i tried to always throw KIDS parties & have kids over but it didn't work. he wasn't interested. his bus driver loved him, he sat right behind her on a?small bus.?& told she me she she learned so much from jason. his teachers all loved him. ?when he went to kids b-day parties i found out he was hangin in the kitchen w/ the moms. they would ask me when he'd be back 2 visit them. ? @ age 12 he was in a program for 16 & up. @ age 14 he was a paid paraprofessional teaching that program <advanced auto body tech>??? @ 16 he was buildin? $80,000 +? custom bikes for stars. he has no problems communicating w/ adults.? my DD is very social. r 12 yo is like J... he really doesn't like kids. he's always been homeschooled except 2 months last year. he did scouts & sports & says the kids r all 2 immature, which they r compared 2 him . he's like my DH, my DH friends where much older than he was.? Dh & my boys look much older than they r.?i think? ur son knows whats best 4 him. G>L>??? ***sim'aria***?


-----Original Message-----
From: Joel <monkeydas@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:38 pm
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Children and Friends






Hi there.

I've been following this list for some time now and find much of the
discussions fascinating to read and very insightful.

But I would love to know your opinions on the the matter of unschooling and
a parent's (or guardian's) responsibility in terms of providing (or
facilitating) social opportunities for the kids.

Here's the short story:

My husband and I are lucky enough to live in a very unique situation. We
are the live-in managers of a senior citizen apartment complex on a large
surburban campus. Needless to say, there are no children around to act as
playmates. (Except for, of course, the young-at-heart ones. (C:= ) Our son
is now approaching the age of 4 and (although he gets well with his little
sister who is 19 mo) we would love for him to have opportunities to meet
other kids on his own terms. We go to a lot of parks and the library (which
he enjoys a lot) but, when it comes to other kids, he's just not interested
in them- at least, in interacting with them. He does love to observe,
though.

(The other night, we went to a park in order to meet with a bunch of moms
who are of a Natural Parenting bent (like we are) and on the way home I
asked him if he enjoyed his time there. His response from the back seat was,
"Well, I enjoyed the park and I liked climbing with N (his sister) and I
liked meeting the ladies. But I didn't like the kids."

I asked him what he didn't like about the kids and his response was, "Well,
I don't know them." (He has met them several times at other, earlier
events.)

What I will mention is that he does get along very well with adults and,
often, I think that most other kids around his age just seem unpredictable
to him. He tends to be quiet around most people and keep to himself and
doesn't 'get it' when other kids do things like throw toys around, yell
things and push or try and shoot at him with pretend guns. (Not aggression,
just playing.) I've got no concerns about his play skills, for those who
might wonder, we do get quite a bit of superheroes and pretending/role
playing, yelling and noise when we are at home.

My question to you guys is this:

If (at this point in time) his natural bent appears in the direction of only
wanting to play with his sister, by himself or interacting with adults
should we respect this to the point of abandoning (for now) any ideas of
'drumming up' other potential kids for him to play with? Or, on the other
hand, should we keep at it casually? The idea here would be that, perhaps,
the more exposures he gets to the same kids over time (so that he knows them
and they become predictable) will make him more comfortable and willing to
interact with them?

I will mention that (and this is probably not a good thing LOL) both my
husband and I are not real 'social' people. We have very few friends we get
together with and what we enjoy, most of all, is just having quiet times at
home with our family. Of course, I know that this is probably something
we've modeled that he is picking up on, which is fine. But I am very willing
to go out of my own comfort zone and 'schmooze' a bit because I would like
him (if he desires it) to be able to have friends if he wants them. ( And I
don't want our homebody tendancies to dictate what he is limited by.)

We would love to hear your ideas on this one.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

appletreereader

Hi,
New here. My name is Sheila and my husband and I homeschool our 6
year old son. I have been reading the list for some time and was
just going to post about my son and friends. Thank you so much for
the post, sometimes there are others out there with the same
situations/questions. We went back and forth about this exact issue
but ended up saying trust him, trust him.

My son has no interest at all in other children. He did have a
couple of kids he did things with when he was 2/3 but stopped because
he didn't like the way they acted. He really enjoys meeting people
and will strike up conversations with a variety of adults. Your post
was so much like our situation my husband was smiling and shaking his
head when he read it. Neither one of us could believe the
similarities.

you wrote:
>we would love for him to have opportunities to meet
> other kids on his own terms. We go to a lot of parks and the
>library (which> he enjoys a lot) but, when it comes to other kids,
>he's just not interested> in them- at least, in interacting with
>them. He does love to observe,> though.

I feel letting him meet others on his own terms is a very nice way to
go about it. You never know what he is getting from observation. E.
sometimes tells me the most interesting things about kids.

you wrote:
> If (at this point in time) his natural bent appears in the
direction of only
> wanting to play with his sister, by himself or interacting with
adults
> should we respect this to the point of abandoning (for now) any
ideas of
> 'drumming up' other potential kids for him to play with? Or, on the
other
> hand, should we keep at it casually? The idea here would be that,
perhaps,
> the more exposures he gets to the same kids over time (so that he
knows them
> and they become predictable) will make him more comfortable and
willing to
> interact with them?

I used to ask him if he wanted me to try to find kids to play with.
He told me that "he would let me know but that right now he just
wanted to be himself". He said this in a rather forceful way and I
could see that I was interfering with his natural ways. I think that
when he said "he wanted to be himself" it said a lot about just who
he is. He is not interested and I need to trust him on this. We
have just gone about our lives. He is free to try things if he
likes, he is free to decline. I let him read the offerings at the
library, park district and homeschool group and he chooses. Often
his choice is to do something just with me, sometimes the exact same
thing that was offered in the homeschool group appeals to him but he
is not interested in doing it in a group and he will ask me to set it
up so he and I can do that activity. We have actually had very
interesting outings because of this and he once spent 1/2 hour
speaking to a women about cranes just because we were the only ones
who were there and she was able to go into the details he wanted.

I loved Sandra's response to your post. Simple and to the point.

Sheila