barbara emrich

Just joined the group! We are an unschooling family with three little ones,
ages 6, 4, and 2---living in the Portland Oregon area. We just sold our
home and will be moving to a new one, but not sure where in the area we'll
land just yet!

We're excited to expand our unschooling experience by getting chickens,
goats, a cow, (etc.?) when we move.

We have an interesting perspective about unschooling, as my husband is a
public school teacher and I was too, prior to having the kids---and we sure
don't like what we've seen from the inside!

I'd love to hear what others do to fill the days and nights with their
unschooled little ones.

Barbara :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-We have an interesting perspective about unschooling, as my
husband is a
public school teacher and I was too, prior to having the kids---and
we sure
don't like what we've seen from the inside!-=-

That helps, I think.

Many unschoolers are former teachers. There have been a dozen times
or so over the years when people have come to lists or message boards
and started their intros with something like "Because I was a teacher
it's hard for me to let go of structure." Really!?

I would think that would be easy, unless they were never very good
teachers in the first place and were depending on lesson plans that
came with the books. <g>

-=-I'd love to hear what others do to fill the days and nights with
their
unschooled little ones.-=-

Here's a collection of typical days that will give you ideas.

http://sandradodd.com/typical

and as you mentioned nights,

http://sandradodd.com/latenightlearning

http://sandradodd.com/sleeping

Welcome to the list.



Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barbara Perez

Hi Barbara! Look how much we have in common:
I'm another Barbara. In the Portland area. With a public school teaching
background!
Would love to meet you. Feel free to contact me off-list!

I couldn't agree more with Sandra's comment about being surprised with some
former teachers saying they find it hard to let go of structure. There are a
few things I do miss from my classroom days (namely the daily contact and
relationships developed with lots of different kids with different
personalities and quirks) but being a slave to the clock and to the
curriculum are NOT among them!



On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> -=-We have an interesting perspective about unschooling, as my
> husband is a
> public school teacher and I was too, prior to having the kids---and
> we sure
> don't like what we've seen from the inside!-=-
>
> That helps, I think.
>
> Many unschoolers are former teachers. There have been a dozen times
> or so over the years when people have come to lists or message boards
> and started their intros with something like "Because I was a teacher
> it's hard for me to let go of structure." Really!?
>
> I would think that would be easy, unless they were never very good
> teachers in the first place and were depending on lesson plans that
> came with the books. <g>
>
> -=-I'd love to hear what others do to fill the days and nights with
> their
> unschooled little ones.-=-
>
> Here's a collection of typical days that will give you ideas.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/typical
>
> and as you mentioned nights,
>
> http://sandradodd.com/latenightlearning
>
> http://sandradodd.com/sleeping
>
> Welcome to the list.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

On Jun 15, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

>
> and as you mentioned nights,
>
> http://sandradodd.com/latenightlearning
>

Looking at that page reminded me of an event I posted here a couple of
years ago; this is the same letter (I keep old emails forever!):

My dh wasn't too sure about unschooling at first (about 9-10 years
ago), and was also adamant the kids be in bed and stay there at a
certain time. I'd just come home from a one-day conference -- probably
the first time I heard Sandra speak -- with an armload of interesting
toys and books and a head full of inspiration. One of the books was
about finding Titanic, and included a paper model, which I decided
Mommy should put together (I really like that kind of thing :-) I was
working on it after the kids had gone to bed, but then-7-y.o. Alex got
up. He looked at the book and we talked about it as I worked; we
discovered what a fathom was, and that Titanic came to rest on the
continental shelf, not the very bottom of the ocean, and I'm sure some
more interesting things, but those stick in my mind. About a half hour
later, Alex went back to bed and I kept gluing. Dh came in and said,
"So that's unschooling." He'd overheard the conversation. I said,
"Yeah, that's unschooling." Never had an argument after that :-)


Nancy

Lyla Wolfenstein

i am excited to see several people here from the portland area, as that is where i am as well! are both of you on the portland unschoolers yahoo group?

i am not sure if i ever fully introduced myself, so i will do so here. I am Lyla, and am relatively new to unschooling in my own family, with my nearly 10 year old son who just left an alternative charter school in january, had a brief stint at a "freeschool" and is now home. my daughter, 13, is in school by choice (alternative, private, rather like "college for kids" - but still school), and is very happy that way, so that adds a layer of complication to our unschooling lives - one which i am just beginning to unravel. i am not new to unschooling as a concept though, as i have several very close friends who have always unschooled, (including one who was a school teacher, to keep this on-topic!) so i feel like my learning curve has been fairly smooth and quick, although i am continually looking to friends and these lists for inspiration and support.

warmly, Lyla



- Original Message -----
From: Barbara Perez
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:51 AM
Subject: [SPAM]Re: [AlwaysLearning] HI


Hi Barbara! Look how much we have in common:
I'm another Barbara. In the Portland area. With a public school teaching
background!
Would love to meet you. Feel free to contact me off-list!
, al
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Thank you, Nancy. That was wonderful. I've put it here:
http://sandradodd.com/latenightlearningcomment.html

And I beefed up the link to that page.

Earlier today I posted this:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/06/internet-site-maintenance.html

I wouldn't be surprised to find that I saved that e-mail too but
hadn't gotten it on my pages yet. I have two folders linked through
Workstrip to things I mean to put online. I'm about to peek, but it
might ruin my day. Yes. There's stuff there from May 2005 to
August 2007. Then I moved to the desktop, and lots of stuff DOES get
put in, but I have a folder I have not touched for a year that lives
on my desktop boldly entitled Webpage Rushjob. I'm not going to look.

I shall press merrily and messily on.

Sandra

thehomeopathicway

Hi Portland People and Everyone else too,

I am new to Portland and kind of new to unschooling. I have a ds16
who has been out of school for a little over a year and a dd10 who
was out of school for a year then back in for this past year and now
wants to go back to unschooling (all her choice). I would love to
meet more unschooling moms here.

I also have a question for the group. My extended family is very
traditional and does not like the idea of the kids not being in
school at all. This is not usually a problem but my sister is taking
my dd to visit the rest of my family for a week this summer. They
all know that she has decided not to go to school next fall and I
know they are going to 'work' on her while she is with them. I can
and have asked them to leave her alone, but this means nothing to
them. Probably because I am the youngest person in the family and
because my kids dad is not in our lives and I am very different from
them, they feel justified. I am wondering what I can do or what I can
say to my dd or to my family.

thank you...

Dianna
thehomeopathicway.blogspot.com

--- In [email protected], "Lyla Wolfenstein" <lylaw@...>
wrote:
>
> i am excited to see several people here from the portland area, as
that is where i am as well! are both of you on the portland
unschoolers yahoo group?
>
> i am not sure if i ever fully introduced myself, so i will do so
here. I am Lyla, and am relatively new to unschooling in my own
family, with my nearly 10 year old son who just left an alternative
charter school in january, had a brief stint at a "freeschool" and
is now home. my daughter, 13, is in school by choice (alternative,
private, rather like "college for kids" - but still school), and is
very happy that way, so that adds a layer of complication to our
unschooling lives - one which i am just beginning to unravel. i am
not new to unschooling as a concept though, as i have several very
close friends who have always unschooled, (including one who was a
school teacher, to keep this on-topic!) so i feel like my learning
curve has been fairly smooth and quick, although i am continually
looking to friends and these lists for inspiration and support.
>
> warmly, Lyla
>
>
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: Barbara Perez
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:51 AM
> Subject: [SPAM]Re: [AlwaysLearning] HI
>
>
> Hi Barbara! Look how much we have in common:
> I'm another Barbara. In the Portland area. With a public school
teaching
> background!
> Would love to meet you. Feel free to contact me off-list!
> , al
> .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jun 16, 2008, at 10:00 PM, thehomeopathicway wrote:

> Probably because I am the youngest person in the family and
> because my kids dad is not in our lives and I am very different from
> them, they feel justified. I am wondering what I can do or what I can
> say to my dd or to my family.

Your daughter is old enough to understand the family dynamics, so talk
with her about it all.

Tell her it is okay for her to say, "I know you care about me and I'll
think about what you said." After that, if they keep on, she can say,
"Can we let it go, I promise I'll think about what you said." And, if
they keep on after that, she can say, "Please drop it." Role play with
her so she feels comfortable with responding sweetly, but assertively.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-I know they are going to 'work' on her while she is with them. I can
and have asked them to leave her alone, but this means nothing to
them. -=-

I just had a new idea. It might or might not work for your daughter
but it could be SUPER valuable.

She could take a notebook just for this purpose, and write down their
suggestions and justifications about school, and she could say "I'll
think about it." If she gives them hope and agreement to some things
instead of being defensive, they'll say much less. It's a little
like playing dead so the aggressor will go away.

There's more, though. She would have their words in writing. She
could come back later (or you could), with "I thought about the
argument that school is necessary for a job, but the unemployment
office is full of people with high school diplomas and college
degrees," or whatever all.

It would be a collection of their concerns, which you could address
methodically and calmly over the months and years following.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thehomeopathicway

This is really a great idea. Not only for this situation but for the
purpose of helping to define and understand for ourselves what we are
doing here.

In a recent post, Sandra spoke about (these are my words because I
can't find the post) shaping and creating the unschooling experience
for her family. In essence, for me this meant that she had a real
understanding of where she wanted to go and what she wanted to do. I
loved hearing this and I would love to hear more about it.

From the outside, unschooling can look arbitrary and chaotic. I
think this has been a big part of the problem for me as well. Just
last night, I was taking a walk with Matthew(ds16)and talking about
our basic need for order and how our experience with unschooling so
far has really challenged that. We spoke about how we haven't really
established a complete understanding about and for this new life. I
don't think the 'un' road is a very easy one to take but I can see
how it forces consciousness and accountability and respect. This
alone is a big enough reward I think.

Thank you again for this suggestion Sandra. As usual, my small
problem turned into a big solution.

Dianna
thehomeoapthicway.blogspot.com

> I just had a new idea. It might or might not work for your
daughter
> but it could be SUPER valuable.
>
> She could take a notebook just for this purpose, and write down
their
> suggestions and justifications about school, and she could
say "I'll
> think about it." If she gives them hope and agreement to some
things
> instead of being defensive, they'll say much less. It's a little
> like playing dead so the aggressor will go away.
>
> There's more, though. She would have their words in writing. She
> could come back later (or you could), with "I thought about the
> argument that school is necessary for a job, but the unemployment
> office is full of people with high school diplomas and college
> degrees," or whatever all.
>
> It would be a collection of their concerns, which you could
address
> methodically and calmly over the months and years following.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-In a recent post, Sandra spoke about (these are my words because I
can't find the post) shaping and creating the unschooling experience
for her family. In essence, for me this meant that she had a real
understanding of where she wanted to go and what she wanted to do. I
loved hearing this and I would love to hear more about it.-=-



Thank you for paraphrasing that back. It's more valuable to me that way.

It surprises me when someone who has been on and around discussions
like this can display a huge lack of understanding of unschooling.
Most people work on understanding the principles, which makes their
decisionmaking easy. If you know what it should do, and how it
should work, then the doing kinda just happens. If you make the more
peaceful decision, the more learning-friendly decision, the more
nurturing decision, then how could one get lost?

But it seems sometimes that there are people who don't intend to get
the principles. They want to hang out with unschoolers and keep
asking at every juncture "What do I do now? How do I do this?"

That's not to discourage questions on the list at all! It's just
when a questions is particularly naive, I'd feel better if it's from
a screenname I haven't seen for three years.

-=-I don't think the 'un' road is a very easy one to take but I can
see how it forces consciousness and accountability and respect.-=-

It doesn't force any of those things. You'll need to choose them,
and then make decisions that keep them in sight.

I know what you meant, but it's important for me (for you, for me to)
point at what you said.

-=-As usual, my small problem turned into a big solution.-=-

I LOVE when that happens!!

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Dietrick

--- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-In a recent post, Sandra spoke about (these are my words because
Ican't find the post) shaping and creating the unschooling experience
> for her family. In essence, for me this meant that she had a real
> understanding of where she wanted to go and what she wanted to do. I
> loved hearing this and I would love to hear more about it.-=-
>
>
>
> Thank you for paraphrasing that back. It's more valuable to me that way.
>


I mailed that post home to me: I agree it was just perfect.
especially this:

<<There was no "group lead" on that. I think someone in the family
needs to feel responsible for making sure there's cohesion and
momentum. I wanted momentum. When it wasn't there already, I add
more.<<


The vision of how we want life to be flowing (a must when going
against mainstream living) is "leading" in a big way, yet in a
unschooly, get out of the way leadership: directing the flow, and
making sure the ship doesnt crash...

Since coming on line 3 years ago, not here at first, just to sandra's
and joyce's websites and a forum with alot of unschoolers and ap
parents on it I have grown confident and sure of what "works" and what
doesnt, with children, with my partner, with others in life...

when I came on line I was in a big rut: just hearing others living
fully, awarely as we were trying to (but somehow along the way we were
muddying our trail in a horrible way) was enough to re establish my
vision, but with confidence.

I *know* where we want to be, if not in detail, in philosophy...and
this keeps us on track.

Dh was angry for a while, because me reconnecting with my vision
somehow dislodged some incongruencies in my way of being with our
children when he was around vs when he was not.

He likes to joke now a days, "hey, Im not the boss!" or "you mean, Im
not the boss!?"

but that was how it was. I had stopped challenging him about it at
some point, and just let him "be the boss" but it just kept getting
worse! lol of course!

But this meant that I wasnt being a very good advocate for my
children. ...

and regaining my vision, let everything fall back into place, in a
very lovely way. We are still smoothing some of the wrinkles out, but
the red carpet is shining bright into the future!

xxmelissa

ps the post content is following (I couldnt find it in the threads to
give just the link-sorry but maybe someone would like to reread it):

Re: leading (was: child led learning)

-=-Anyway, I don't feel as thought I lead, as the adult, nor do I
feel that they lead--as in child led learning. I kinda feel like we
are all just going through this together. -=-

I'm all mixed up and haven't read these in order, but sometimes the
truth of a word doesn't mean it can be used without wrong impressions.

In our family, as activities and learning go, in the overall picture
of the last 21 years, I have "led" BIGTIME, but what I did was to
lead us all toward unschooling. We didn't muddle toward it
accidentally as a family. I designed and created the situation
(given what I had to work with, which pretty wonderfully included
Keith having recently gotten a really good job, and us having been
involved in the SCA a long time) and made sure I really knew what I
was doing (or trying to do).

There was no "group lead" on that. I think someone in the family
needs to feel responsible for making sure there's cohesion and
momentum. I wanted momentum. When it wasn't there already, I add
more.

Still. Now that our kids are all practically grown (Kirby IS grown;
21 and living elsewhere), momentum doesn't have to be monitored in
half-hour blocks, but maybe in two-day blocks. And sometimes they
have so much planned and happening that all I need to do is check to
make sure they have the clothes they need for jobs, friends'
weddings, trips; that the car-sharing plans will work out (we're two
cars for four people, kind of; Keith has a motorcycle, and there's a
van without air conditioning that sucks gasoline like a van and Holly
and I don't like to drive it anyway, so I dont' count that)... I'm
more background logistics some weeks than big planner.

As to being the person who make sure it's all happening, though, the
director-style leader, that's me. But their learning isn't "led" by
me. Sometimes it is nudged or augmented or sparkled up by me.

Sandra

thehomeopathicway

Melissa, thank you for finding this. I like it even more the second
time reading it. Very well said.

Sandra, is this posted anywhere else?

Melissa said:
> I mailed that post home to me: I agree it was just perfect.


"In our family, as activities and learning go, in the overall picture
of the last 21 years, I have "led" BIGTIME, but what I did was to
lead us all toward unschooling. We didn't muddle toward it
accidentally as a family. I designed and created the situation
(given what I had to work with, which pretty wonderfully included
Keith having recently gotten a really good job, and us having been
involved in the SCA a long time) and made sure I really knew what I
was doing (or trying to do)."

"There was no "group lead" on that. I think someone in the family
needs to feel responsible for making sure there's cohesion and
momentum. I wanted momentum. When it wasn't there already, I add
more."

"Still. Now that our kids are all practically grown (Kirby IS grown;
21 and living elsewhere), momentum doesn't have to be monitored in
half-hour blocks, but maybe in two-day blocks. And sometimes they
have so much planned and happening that all I need to do is check to
make sure they have the clothes they need for jobs, friends'
weddings, trips; that the car-sharing plans will work out (we're two
cars for four people, kind of; Keith has a motorcycle, and there's a
van without air conditioning that sucks gasoline like a van and Holly
and I don't like to drive it anyway, so I dont' count that)... I'm
more background logistics some weeks than big planner."

"As to being the person who make sure it's all happening, though, the
director-style leader, that's me. But their learning isn't "led" by
me. Sometimes it is nudged or augmented or sparkled up by me."

Sandra

DaBreeze21

-= The vision of how we want life to be flowing (a must when going
against mainstream living) is "leading" in a big way, yet in a
unschooly, get out of the way leadership: directing the flow, and
making sure the ship doesnt crash...=-

The above made me think of a post I recently put up on my blog. I
thought I would add it here:

More thoughts on parenting

One thing that has amazed me the past two years is how the "mainstream
way" can seem so.... inevitable... inescapable... I guess that is why it
is called "MAINSTREAM!" (maybe is should be mainRAPIDS, or
mainHUGEROARINGRIVER" -- GET OUT BEFORE YOU DROWN IN IT!!! )

I know what was really, REALLY liberating for me was realizing that I
can do things differently and it is NOT WRONG to do so. That I can do
things differently and BE HAPPY (a lot happier than some people seem to
be doing things the "normal" way.) That I can do things in a way that
feels right and natural to me and not fight it.

A good example is the whole "sleep issue". I first read about
co-sleeping while I was still pregnant (one of Dr. Sears' books). I
loved the idea, it sounded so wonderful. But then MG went without a
fight to the crib and slept well at 5 weeks. Well, she slept well until
she was about 5 months anyways, and then started to wake up every hour
or so! Man was I tired for a couple of months.

I started to sleep with her when we went on vacation and she never went
back to the crib. I loved it! At first we didn't really talk about it to
family and friends unless it came up. I heard all sorts of thing from
people -- mostly what a BIG mistake it was. I heard someone talking
about her own 1 year old son and "Ferberizing" and how much harder it
was to walk away from their crying when they could scream, "Mama mama!!"
She concluded, that you "have" to do it though.... most people seem to
assume that eventually you WILL have to let them cry it out, and it is
easier to do when they are little. If you sleep with them then you are
just helping them form bad habits, no one will get good sleep, and you
certainly must be doing some kid of damage to your marriage! Also, when
and how are you going to get them out of your bed?

I used to worry more about these things, even though I loved sleeping
with my little girl (and I can see in my husband's face that he enjoys
it too). I think that one problem people have is with the idea that you
MAY sleep with them for a lot longer than you planned on. Or that
sleeping arrangements may be flexible. Or that kids need help to fall
asleep. Personally, I am happily accepting all of these possibilities.

I like drifting peacefully with my family on our own little side stream
thank you.

Ok I'm back. This is not the post anymore... The more I read about
unschooling and think about how I want to live life the more I realize
that I just need to DO it. I don't need to convince anyone else (family
included). I'm also realizing that what I'm doing is not really all that
"radical" although it may seem that way to others. It helps me to not
feel that I am being radical -- then I am not so defensive. I am just
living my life in the way that I think is best for me and my family. And
I hope to be a good example for others that there may be a more
enjoyable, even BETTER way to live. "They" (whoever they may be!) won't
get the message either if they are feeling defensive. I am also
continually surprised that MORE people don't try to live by at least
some of these principles -- don't people want to live peacefully,
joyfully? To enjoy their children and partners to the maximum? I really
don't understand... but I am trying to be patient and kind both with
myself and others.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]