Is this unschooling or coercion?
melissa_hice
All this talk of what is and isn't unschooling has got me to really
thinking. As I've mentioned before, I am fairly new to this although
I've been reading on this site and a couple of others as well as
reading books, websites (Sandra's and others), blogs, etc.
Since I come from a background of public schooling (both as a student
and a teacher) I am questioning what I do and asking myself if it is
or is not unschooling. Okay here is an example:
We went to the park yesterday and my daughter (8 yo)asked me to play
with her. As we were on the giant play structure, I looked down at
the platform we were standing on and noticed that it was in the shape
of a hexagon. I said, "Look, a hexagon!" Dd looked down, then
walked the perimeter of it counting the sides to make sure it was
indeed a hexagon with 6 sides. During our play, she would sometimes
notice hexagons and I would point some out to her. After we found a
few, she said, "That's all the shapes I want to find" and I
said, "Okay."
Last night as I thought about our day, I wondered if I was being too
schoolish. Maybe I should not have even pointed the hexagon out to
her. In the past (like the recent past!), I would turn everything
into an "educational experience." This time, though, I just noticed
the hexagon and drew my daughter's attention to it before I thought.
I love patterns (patterns in nature, quilt patterns, etc.), and so I
just naturally commented on it. I didn't require her to find any of
the shapes, but I wonder if maybe she was trying to please me or if
she was interested in it as well. She seemed to be interested.
Maybe I am just not totally sure what unschooling really looks
like. When I first discovered the term unschooling, I thought it
meant pretty much hands off. I now know that is not true, but I
spent the first month or so thinking that was what it was. Then I
joined this group and lately there have been some really good topics
that have me thinking more and more.
Guess I am still unsure of myself. The above situation felt natural
to me, but then I wonder if I don't really know what natural feels
like since my past has probably altered my conception of reality.
Melissa
thinking. As I've mentioned before, I am fairly new to this although
I've been reading on this site and a couple of others as well as
reading books, websites (Sandra's and others), blogs, etc.
Since I come from a background of public schooling (both as a student
and a teacher) I am questioning what I do and asking myself if it is
or is not unschooling. Okay here is an example:
We went to the park yesterday and my daughter (8 yo)asked me to play
with her. As we were on the giant play structure, I looked down at
the platform we were standing on and noticed that it was in the shape
of a hexagon. I said, "Look, a hexagon!" Dd looked down, then
walked the perimeter of it counting the sides to make sure it was
indeed a hexagon with 6 sides. During our play, she would sometimes
notice hexagons and I would point some out to her. After we found a
few, she said, "That's all the shapes I want to find" and I
said, "Okay."
Last night as I thought about our day, I wondered if I was being too
schoolish. Maybe I should not have even pointed the hexagon out to
her. In the past (like the recent past!), I would turn everything
into an "educational experience." This time, though, I just noticed
the hexagon and drew my daughter's attention to it before I thought.
I love patterns (patterns in nature, quilt patterns, etc.), and so I
just naturally commented on it. I didn't require her to find any of
the shapes, but I wonder if maybe she was trying to please me or if
she was interested in it as well. She seemed to be interested.
Maybe I am just not totally sure what unschooling really looks
like. When I first discovered the term unschooling, I thought it
meant pretty much hands off. I now know that is not true, but I
spent the first month or so thinking that was what it was. Then I
joined this group and lately there have been some really good topics
that have me thinking more and more.
Guess I am still unsure of myself. The above situation felt natural
to me, but then I wonder if I don't really know what natural feels
like since my past has probably altered my conception of reality.
Melissa
jenstarc4
>Since you've used that as educational lessons in the past it will take
> We went to the park yesterday and my daughter (8 yo)asked me to play
> with her. As we were on the giant play structure, I looked down at
> the platform we were standing on and noticed that it was in the shape
> of a hexagon. I said, "Look, a hexagon!" Dd looked down, then
> walked the perimeter of it counting the sides to make sure it was
> indeed a hexagon with 6 sides. During our play, she would sometimes
> notice hexagons and I would point some out to her. After we found a
> few, she said, "That's all the shapes I want to find" and I
> said, "Okay."
>
a while for it to feel natural. What you did sounds natural enough.
Your daughter's response sounds natural for a kid who is used to having
her mom "teach" her everything rather than point things out for the
coolness that it is.
If you were with a friend, saying "oh, cool, look the playground is in
the shape of a hexagon", might be perfectly natural, but to go on and
on, wouldn't. If your friend or daughter, started to point out of cool
shapes, then the conversation continues, but if the friend, or daughter
starts to point out the neat trees or talk about the weather or
yesterday's happening, then the conversation has veered in an equally
natural direction.
I point things out to my kids all the time, some of it they are
interested in and other things they aren't. They point things out to
me too, often things that I've missed and they haven't, and that's
equally cool in a totally different way.
If I never pointed things out to my kids, it would feel as equally
artificial as pointing out things to "teach" them something.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 6, 2008, at 11:58 AM, melissa_hice wrote:
that's great. If she looks at you like you've got two heads, then
she's not interested and you won't be pointing out interesting shapes
to her, for a while at least.
What you could watch out for are your own biases in what you think are
interesting things. I mean - was it actually interesting because it
was 6-sided and you just mentioned that it is called a hexagon or are
you saying it was interesting because you really wanted her to learn
the name of a hexagon because that's on the list, in your head, of
things a kid should know?
Only you can answer that.
Even if it is the latter - if you're paying close attention to what
interests her and supporting that, you'll move further into
unschooling pretty quickly. Maybe try to find things that are
interesting that would NOT be on a school's list of things kids should
know - that'll be a good exercise for you to undo your school-think.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> She seemed to be interested.Unschooling is supporting her interests. If she seems interested, then
that's great. If she looks at you like you've got two heads, then
she's not interested and you won't be pointing out interesting shapes
to her, for a while at least.
What you could watch out for are your own biases in what you think are
interesting things. I mean - was it actually interesting because it
was 6-sided and you just mentioned that it is called a hexagon or are
you saying it was interesting because you really wanted her to learn
the name of a hexagon because that's on the list, in your head, of
things a kid should know?
Only you can answer that.
Even if it is the latter - if you're paying close attention to what
interests her and supporting that, you'll move further into
unschooling pretty quickly. Maybe try to find things that are
interesting that would NOT be on a school's list of things kids should
know - that'll be a good exercise for you to undo your school-think.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
Dd looked down, then walked the perimeter of it counting the sides to make sure it was
indeed a hexagon with 6 sides. During our play, she would sometimes notice hexagons
and I would point some out to her. After we found a few, she said, "That's all the shapes I
want to find" and I said, "Okay."
That sounds like a lovely moment of connection to me where you pointed something out
that you noticed and she hadn't, she played with the notion for a few minutes, told you
when she was finished and you went on to something else. I don't see any coercion,
unless you left out that part about you forcibly turning her head to see the hexagon <g>.
Unschooling doesn't mean children left alone to figure out the world. My picture of it is a
dance where one leads, then the other leads, switching off when appropriate. (I guess it's
more of a modern dance.) I have the unique position of having more general knowledge
about the world and more experience in finding resources, etc. Sometimes it's my
children having the energy and interest, which leads us. It might spark me, and I might
follow them, I might find something that adds to that energy/interest, I might just watch.
I might have something brand new to add to the mix that ends up changing the direction,
or not. I might be the one with the interest or idea that they are sparked by. And it all
flows along. When there are lulls, I will increase my energy for going places or playing a
new game, or bringing home a new book, or something else that seems called for.
Joanna
indeed a hexagon with 6 sides. During our play, she would sometimes notice hexagons
and I would point some out to her. After we found a few, she said, "That's all the shapes I
want to find" and I said, "Okay."
That sounds like a lovely moment of connection to me where you pointed something out
that you noticed and she hadn't, she played with the notion for a few minutes, told you
when she was finished and you went on to something else. I don't see any coercion,
unless you left out that part about you forcibly turning her head to see the hexagon <g>.
Unschooling doesn't mean children left alone to figure out the world. My picture of it is a
dance where one leads, then the other leads, switching off when appropriate. (I guess it's
more of a modern dance.) I have the unique position of having more general knowledge
about the world and more experience in finding resources, etc. Sometimes it's my
children having the energy and interest, which leads us. It might spark me, and I might
follow them, I might find something that adds to that energy/interest, I might just watch.
I might have something brand new to add to the mix that ends up changing the direction,
or not. I might be the one with the interest or idea that they are sparked by. And it all
flows along. When there are lulls, I will increase my energy for going places or playing a
new game, or bringing home a new book, or something else that seems called for.
Joanna
--- In [email protected], "melissa_hice" <mhice@...> wrote:
>
> All this talk of what is and isn't unschooling has got me to really
> thinking. As I've mentioned before, I am fairly new to this although
> I've been reading on this site and a couple of others as well as
> reading books, websites (Sandra's and others), blogs, etc.
>
> Since I come from a background of public schooling (both as a student
> and a teacher) I am questioning what I do and asking myself if it is
> or is not unschooling. Okay here is an example:
>
> We went to the park yesterday and my daughter (8 yo)asked me to play
> with her. As we were on the giant play structure, I looked down at
> the platform we were standing on and noticed that it was in the shape
> of a hexagon. I said, "Look, a hexagon!" Dd looked down, then
> walked the perimeter of it counting the sides to make sure it was
> indeed a hexagon with 6 sides. During our play, she would sometimes
> notice hexagons and I would point some out to her. After we found a
> few, she said, "That's all the shapes I want to find" and I
> said, "Okay."
>
> Last night as I thought about our day, I wondered if I was being too
> schoolish. Maybe I should not have even pointed the hexagon out to
> her. In the past (like the recent past!), I would turn everything
> into an "educational experience." This time, though, I just noticed
> the hexagon and drew my daughter's attention to it before I thought.
> I love patterns (patterns in nature, quilt patterns, etc.), and so I
> just naturally commented on it. I didn't require her to find any of
> the shapes, but I wonder if maybe she was trying to please me or if
> she was interested in it as well. She seemed to be interested.
>
> Maybe I am just not totally sure what unschooling really looks
> like. When I first discovered the term unschooling, I thought it
> meant pretty much hands off. I now know that is not true, but I
> spent the first month or so thinking that was what it was. Then I
> joined this group and lately there have been some really good topics
> that have me thinking more and more.
>
> Guess I am still unsure of myself. The above situation felt natural
> to me, but then I wonder if I don't really know what natural feels
> like since my past has probably altered my conception of reality.
>
> Melissa
>
melissa_hice
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
I think, because both of my children really like the pattern blocks
we have and play with them regularly, I mentioned it because I
thought she would be interested in it. But, it is possible that at
the back of my mind without really thinking, I'm testing her to see
if she remembers the shape. This definately takes some thinking on
my part as to what my real intent is.
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>then
>
> On Mar 6, 2008, at 11:58 AM, melissa_hice wrote:
>
> > She seemed to be interested.
>
> Unschooling is supporting her interests. If she seems interested,
> that's great. If she looks at you like you've got two heads, thenshapes
> she's not interested and you won't be pointing out interesting
> to her, for a while at least.are
>
> What you could watch out for are your own biases in what you think
> interesting things. I mean - was it actually interesting becauseit
> was 6-sided and you just mentioned that it is called a hexagon orare
> you saying it was interesting because you really wanted her tolearn
> the name of a hexagon because that's on the list, in your head, of***************
> things a kid should know?
I think, because both of my children really like the pattern blocks
we have and play with them regularly, I mentioned it because I
thought she would be interested in it. But, it is possible that at
the back of my mind without really thinking, I'm testing her to see
if she remembers the shape. This definately takes some thinking on
my part as to what my real intent is.
>what
>*************>
> Even if it is the latter - if you're paying close attention to
> interests her and supporting that, you'll move further intoshould
> unschooling pretty quickly. Maybe try to find things that are
> interesting that would NOT be on a school's list of things kids
> know - that'll be a good exercise for you to undo your school-think.
>
> -pam
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-This definately takes some thinking on
my part as to what my real intent is.-=-
Intent is probably the most important factor.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my part as to what my real intent is.-=-
Intent is probably the most important factor.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 11:58 AM, melissa_hice <mhice@...> wrote:
want to be where life is interesting, around interesting people, even if it
doesn't specifically, instantly interests them. It's important they know
they've got an informative tour guide through childhood ::bg::
When the intent is sharing what rocks my world, the information makes far
more sense (as it has context and relationship) and has purpose in our life.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> This time, though, I just noticedYOU were interested :) which by default makes you *interesting* :D Kids
> the hexagon and drew my daughter's attention to it before I thought.
> I love patterns (patterns in nature, quilt patterns, etc.), and so I
> just naturally commented on it. I didn't require her to find any of
> the shapes, but I wonder if maybe she was trying to please me or if
> she was interested in it as well. She seemed to be interested.
>
>
>
>
want to be where life is interesting, around interesting people, even if it
doesn't specifically, instantly interests them. It's important they know
they've got an informative tour guide through childhood ::bg::
When the intent is sharing what rocks my world, the information makes far
more sense (as it has context and relationship) and has purpose in our life.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-YOU were interested :) which by default makes you *interesting* :D
Kids
want to be where life is interesting, around interesting people, even
if it
doesn't specifically, instantly interests them. -=-
Diana's right, but saying "this is a hexagon" isn't the interesting
part, is it? WHY was it a hexagon? Stronger? Greater area for not
much more steel? (Rubber coated steel, I'm guessing, which is
expensive.) And I've seen some hexagonal playground platforms that
allowed access from three sides, and had three railings. That's
pretty cool. More kids fit, more kids can get in and out, so more
peace and more fun.
Hexagonal platforms are probably stronger, too. More stable. They
can be held up with three posts easier than a rectangular platform
can be.
If you're going to say what something is, don't stop there. (Or if
the kid has no interest, stop there. <g>)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kids
want to be where life is interesting, around interesting people, even
if it
doesn't specifically, instantly interests them. -=-
Diana's right, but saying "this is a hexagon" isn't the interesting
part, is it? WHY was it a hexagon? Stronger? Greater area for not
much more steel? (Rubber coated steel, I'm guessing, which is
expensive.) And I've seen some hexagonal playground platforms that
allowed access from three sides, and had three railings. That's
pretty cool. More kids fit, more kids can get in and out, so more
peace and more fun.
Hexagonal platforms are probably stronger, too. More stable. They
can be held up with three posts easier than a rectangular platform
can be.
If you're going to say what something is, don't stop there. (Or if
the kid has no interest, stop there. <g>)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Tellew
Sandra said:<<<<<If you're going to say what something is, don't stop
there. (Or if
the kid has no interest, stop there. <g>)>>>
Or what I'm learning, if the kid has no interest and you do, go ahead
and follow your own interest but don't make a big show of it or act
disappointed.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
there. (Or if
the kid has no interest, stop there. <g>)>>>
Or what I'm learning, if the kid has no interest and you do, go ahead
and follow your own interest but don't make a big show of it or act
disappointed.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]