jenstarc4

Tell me again why control is a bad thing. I know why, but I want to
hear everyone say it again because you all have such beautiful words.
I have been encountering those that unschool and justify their need to
control things such as tv, food, bedtimes, etc, etc.

Why do people justify this soooo heartily and still consider themselves
to be unschooling. I just don't see it being very compatible in the
face of having a partnership based relationship with ones kids.

Sandra Dodd

-=-Tell me again why control is a bad thing. I know why, but I want to
hear everyone say it again because you all have such beautiful words.
I have been encountering those that unschool and justify their need to
control things such as tv, food, bedtimes, etc, etc.

-=-Why do people justify this soooo heartily and still consider
themselves
to be unschooling. -=-

Priorities and principles.

People can unschool without going into all areas of their lives.
I've never known a family doing that to be as happy as ours or some
of the other enthusiastic unschoolers I know. I've never seen a
family like that where the parents don't share in the explorations
and the learning has as much in-depth involvement with their kids.

The time they spend pressing, avoiding, justifying, discussing,
pleading, threatening and being generally at adds about TV, food,
bedtimes, computer use, video games, room cleaning, etc., could have
been put to much better, warmer, loving use with better longterm
results.

Marty's downstairs cleaning his room. I don't know why. It was a
mess, no one said anything, and he's straightening it up extremely.
Holly's asleep. (For the record; they're not both being impressively
industrious at the same time.)



I think if parents indicate that kids can't learn practical things in
the same way they learn "academic" things, the parents don't have as
much faith in learning as they could have. That doesn't mean they're
not unschooling, it just means they're doing it in a limited way,
seeing it still as the "school" part of life rather than as learning
in and from and through life.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jenstarc4

> I think if parents indicate that kids can't learn practical things
in
> the same way they learn "academic" things, the parents don't have as
> much faith in learning as they could have. That doesn't mean
they're
> not unschooling, it just means they're doing it in a limited way,
> seeing it still as the "school" part of life rather than as learning
> in and from and through life.
>
>
>
> Sandra

I just wrote a long sort of rant about all this on my blog because it
was boiling up inside of me and I needed to get it out. I don't like
things like that to irritate me, yet I run into it all the time, so
I've been trying to understand where people are coming from with this
need to control.

I don't feel this need to control. I haven't for a very long time,
although in the beginning there were areas that I needed to work on.
However, I didn't feel like I had to justify that need, I felt like I
needed to analyze it and find a way to get rid of it in my life and the
life of my kids. I find it really difficult in that light, to hear
others doing all that justification of control, when I see very clearly
that it doesn't work well.

I haven't always been able to articulate that, but lately I've been
doing that, writing about it and trying to articulate that idea, that
I've been practicing and believing and seeing firsthand in my own life,
but seeing that others don't do that too and have many justifications
for that need to control. (okay so that long sentence wasn't so
articulate ;) )

I wrote something about that idea of taking kids out of the school box
and then bringing them home and putting the kids in a whole other sort
of box of "can't", "shouldn't", and "for your own good".

It really gets under my skin for some reason when other people say that
just because they don't follow all the tennets of unschooling that they
aren't unschooling. I don't get that at all. What tennets? If
control based relationships work for them, then I digress, but I really
don't see how it can help someone unschool with their kids.

Sandra Dodd

-=-It really gets under my skin for some reason when other people say
that
just because they don't follow all the tennets of unschooling that they
aren't unschooling. I don't get that at all. What tennets? If
control based relationships work for them, then I digress, but I really
don't see how it can help someone unschool with their kids.-=-

That they are still or that they aren't? (I got confused. <g>)

I believe if someone provides lots of academic opportunities and
materials for their children but they don't have lessons or a
curriculum, and if the parents keep it interesting and going, and the
kids are into it, they might successfully unschool without doing
anything except just those academics. They might even do it six
hours a day, 180 days a week.

I wouldn't want them to come here and help the unschoolers who come
to this list, though, because their help would be "getting colder"
instead of "getting warmer" on the hints scale.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jenstarc4

> -=-It really gets under my skin for some reason when other people
say
> that
> just because they don't follow all the tennets of unschooling that
they
> aren't unschooling. I don't get that at all. What tennets? If
> control based relationships work for them, then I digress, but I
really
> don't see how it can help someone unschool with their kids.-=-
>
> That they are still or that they aren't? (I got confused. <g>)
>

That they can unschool and not follow all the "tennents" of
unschooling. If by, tennents they mean controlling/not controlling
aspects of their childrens lives.

I have seen parents doing all sorts of cool things with their kids
and still controlling their childrens bedtimes, etc. I've even seen
moms and daughters having good relationships even with that kind of
control. I personally don't see it being benificial to the kind of
relationship that I have and want more of with my own children.

You are right that it is "colder" rather than "warmer". If you build
a relationship based in trusting kids to learn what and when, then it
stands to reason that building that same kind of relationship in
other areas of life would follow. Right now, I'm anxious to leave
the house, but one of my kids isn't, she wants to go just not this
instant, so I'm waiting patiently to go out, while the other daughter
is watching tv waiting with me.

If it's my timetable, I get to say when and for how long. When it's
OUR timetable, we work through everyone's needs. I don't need to go
right this minute, it would be nice to not have to navigate the
beginning of rush hour, but I can just make it be the "cool, longer
time in the car to talk and listen to music, while getting to our
destination". My other daughter is happily watching tv, she got
herself dressed and ready and will still be ready 1/2 and hour from
now. She's also using this time to gather up loose change to spend
while out and about. I could ruin this time by trying to control the
time we leave the house because I want to leave now.