Ginger Sabo

Sandra,

Thanks for bringing up this topic.

I have a fear that my sons aggression and passion for hitting/karate/guns/swords will continue and the peaceful soul of his when he was 3 and 4 will be lost in that power play stuff. I try and let him be the top of all I can. I hate it that he hurts his brother when I'm not in the room or lets his play get so rough that he ends up hurting his brother. The only thing that saves me so far is that he gets queasy at the sight of blood...so... Letting him be so DIFFERENT than me - the tree hugger, bug saving, respect for all kinds of life mama - is a challenge for my own soul sometimes.

The youngest has been running since 8 months and my fear with him is that he wont think before he does something. Yesterday he came up to me laughing histarically saying, "Mama, I just jumped off the roof of Dad's car and didn't even hurt myself!" Yeah, THAT'S funny!

My fear for me is that I waiver from healing from this d--n disease and wont be able to play with them in ways they want to play. Also, I'm grateful that my husband still asks if I want to come along for adventures...so I'm a bit affraid that he'll stop asking and I don't want to be left behind, yet I don't want to keep them from going and doing things I can't quite do yet.

In Peace,
Ginger
Kai(8) and Kade(5)

LOVE has impact.

"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=I have a fear that my sons aggression and passion for hitting/
karate/guns/swords will continue-=-

Playing karate isn't the same as knowing karate. Maybe get him into
classes? There, he'll learn safety and responsibility.

-=-. I hate it that he hurts his brother when I'm not in the room or
lets his play get so rough that he ends up hurting his brother.-=-

I think that would end if he studied a martial art. It would be an
outlet, and he would know his strength and know the danger in ways he
doesn't know now.

-=-I have a fear that ... the peaceful soul of his when he was 3 and
4 will be lost in that power play stuff.-=-

"Power play stuff" is part of becoming a man.
You want him to grow up to be a man and not a peaceful three year old.

Lots of VERY gentle men grew up playing rough.
Lots of very angry men grew up not being allowed to play rough
(having to sneak it, or being punished for it).

-=-Letting him be so DIFFERENT than me is a challenge for my own
soul sometimes.-=-

Maybe if you don't think of it as something you "let him be" but
seeing it as accepting him the way he is would make a big difference.
You can't help him being different. You could resist it and complain
about it and make him feel he's wrong to be different, but maybe you
hadn't thought of it in those terms.

My once-peaceful little boys are 18 and 20. They've never actually
hurt anyone, not counting a few accidental falls when wrestling
rough, but no "violence." Marty cut his friend once trying to cut
duct tape handcuffs off him. It wasn't too bad. The boy's mom
understood and it was a good opportunity to talk about how to more
safely cut something off someone else.

-=The youngest has been running since 8 months and my fear with him
is that he wont think before he does something-=-

Maybe he thinks as fast as he runs!!

We used to jump off the house and off the barn, when I was ten,
eleven. That barn was probably 16 feet. Not the biggest of barns,
but it scares me to think of it with my adult knowledge. We didn't
get hurt.

Sandra





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ed Wendell

My now 13 yr old son said to DH last spring when he had saved up enough to buy a BB gun - and he was soooooo excited - I guess he could see that I was trying to be interested but failing miserably: "Mom just doesn't get it does she? She's really not into this is she? I guess it's a man thing."

I too have gone through the whole worry thing about play army - our son is passionate about anything military. There is no recent military history in our family. He loves reenacting wars and battles. Which has had it's great moments too. When younger he spent hours and days digging a huge hole to get into as a bunker - the hole is still there in the yard. He and a few friends made a film 2 yrs ago which we watched again the other day and everyone had a good laugh; he knows more war history and details than the majority of people. He has favorite planes from WWII, etc. He knows war history from ancient battles to modern. When he was younger I'd have one on one talks with him about why it bothered me just so he knew my why. I would talk about how I worried how he might get the impression that war was fun - and he informed me he wasn't stupid, that he KNEW war was terrible and horribly hurtful - he was just having fun with something that interested him. He loved to put plastic army men in the Christmas tree - which bothered me to no end so we talked about my feelings too. He is so independent and has such a soft heart it is quite a contradiction at times with his passion for war/military.

He took HapKiDo (martial arts) for 7 years and then asked to stop about 6 months away from a black belt - he was just wanting to move on after twice a week for 7 years so we moved on. It has been 2 years since he moved on and has never said he wished he'd continued. Now he is into carving wood and wanting to take horse back riding - which he has done a bit here and there but not regular so I think that is next.

Back when our son was in school he was evaluated and the evaluator insisted we seek counseling because he was so into war and guns, etc. that she was worried. She even brought up examples of shootings in the USA and we frankly were offended. When I tried to talk to her about his passion for the history and facts as well as strategy and economics of war, etc. she just insisted that his fascination went beyond the norm. So we have also had talks with our son over the years about society's expectations and how his passion with guns, knives, war can be alarming to many.


My mom reassures me that my very peaceful brother also played war - and I remember playing cowboys and Indians a lot.

Lisa W.



----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd


-=I have a fear that my sons aggression and passion for hitting/
karate/guns/swords will continue-=-

-=-I have a fear that ... the peaceful soul of his when he was 3 and
4 will be lost in that power play stuff.-=-

"Power play stuff" is part of becoming a man.
You want him to grow up to be a man and not a peaceful three year old.

Lots of VERY gentle men grew up playing rough.
Lots of very angry men grew up not being allowed to play rough
(having to sneak it, or being punished for it).
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina

This isnt really a fear but My husband and I would think it was really
funny if our kids turned out ultra conservative-being that we are so
on the other side of that.
(Please-I am not saying that there is anything wrong with being
conservative:)
My oldest son is already anti tattoo-he hates them-he dont even like
the pretend stick on ones. Im a tattoo artist and have a few big ones.
He likes mine, he just doesnt want them on him. But he is only 6, who
knows if that will change.
It really doesnt matter to me b/c I just want them to be true to
themselves no matter what it is.
We just think its funny. You know how some kids rebel from their
parents by getting tattoos and peircings and dying their hair hot pink
( I shaved my head right infront of my dad)-we joke by saying that
ours will rebel by dressing in suits and -you know what I mean.
I dont even think ours will rebel. How should I word this-if they are
free to make their own choices what reason would they have to rebel?
I hope Im not offending anyone here- Im just sharing something I think
is funny!

tracy

Thanks for making me take a minute and think about this...what fears
do I still have ( had alot years ago!!) Right now my only lingering
fear is that something may happen to me and g-d forbid...to both my
hubby and I! We have no family that supports our unschooling and
peaceful/respective parenting. I'm much better about *trusting* all
will be well, yet I'm still such a realist that I know if the
unthinkable was to happen my kids lives would change and not for the
better!!

We both ride motorcycles...yet I ride MUCH less than my hubby. I am a
reasonable person, I know motorcyles are dangerous :-( I do LOVE it
when I go out...fresh air, sunshine and SPEED. I also like
horses...another dangerous thing! What I've come to realize is that I
was told NO my whole life and I'm not going to let fear stop me from
doing the things I love to do! The older my kids get, the less I
worry.

So I'm going to enjoy this phase of less worry...cause the teenage
years are right around the corner...sex,drugs,driving,drinking...OH
MY!!!

Tracy
PS. I don't have time to proof read so please don't grade my
spelling ;-)






--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
>
> My now 13 yr old son said to DH last spring when he had saved up
enough to buy a BB gun - and he was soooooo excited - I guess he
could see that I was trying to be interested but failing
miserably: "Mom just doesn't get it does she? She's really not into
this is she? I guess it's a man thing."
>
> I too have gone through the whole worry thing about play army - our
son is passionate about anything military. There is no recent
military history in our family. He loves reenacting wars and
battles. Which has had it's great moments too. When younger he spent
hours and days digging a huge hole to get into as a bunker - the hole
is still there in the yard. He and a few friends made a film 2 yrs
ago which we watched again the other day and everyone had a good
laugh; he knows more war history and details than the majority of
people. He has favorite planes from WWII, etc. He knows war history
from ancient battles to modern. When he was younger I'd have one on
one talks with him about why it bothered me just so he knew my why.
I would talk about how I worried how he might get the impression that
war was fun - and he informed me he wasn't stupid, that he KNEW war
was terrible and horribly hurtful - he was just having fun with
something that interested him. He loved to put plastic army men in
the Christmas tree - which bothered me to no end so we talked about
my feelings too. He is so independent and has such a soft heart it
is quite a contradiction at times with his passion for war/military.
>
> He took HapKiDo (martial arts) for 7 years and then asked to stop
about 6 months away from a black belt - he was just wanting to move
on after twice a week for 7 years so we moved on. It has been 2
years since he moved on and has never said he wished he'd
continued. Now he is into carving wood and wanting to take horse
back riding - which he has done a bit here and there but not regular
so I think that is next.
>
> Back when our son was in school he was evaluated and the evaluator
insisted we seek counseling because he was so into war and guns, etc.
that she was worried. She even brought up examples of shootings in
the USA and we frankly were offended. When I tried to talk to her
about his passion for the history and facts as well as strategy and
economics of war, etc. she just insisted that his fascination went
beyond the norm. So we have also had talks with our son over the
years about society's expectations and how his passion with guns,
knives, war can be alarming to many.
>
>
> My mom reassures me that my very peaceful brother also played war -
and I remember playing cowboys and Indians a lot.
>
> Lisa W.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sandra Dodd
>
>
> -=I have a fear that my sons aggression and passion for hitting/
> karate/guns/swords will continue-=-
>
> -=-I have a fear that ... the peaceful soul of his when he was 3
and
> 4 will be lost in that power play stuff.-=-
>
> "Power play stuff" is part of becoming a man.
> You want him to grow up to be a man and not a peaceful three year
old.
>
> Lots of VERY gentle men grew up playing rough.
> Lots of very angry men grew up not being allowed to play rough
> (having to sneak it, or being punished for it).
> .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-So I'm going to enjoy this phase of less worry...cause the teenage
years are right around the corner...sex,drugs,driving,drinking...OH
MY!!!-=-

All three of my kids drive, one has had sex, none have done drugs as
far as I know, all have been to parties where they drank and stayed
over or where they had a designated driver and came home. They
aren't sneaky, they're careful, they're attentive to other people's
moods and needs and keep situations calm.

It's pretty cool to see.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-if they are
free to make their own choices what reason would they have to rebel?-=-

It's interesting, seeing kids make choices for quite different
reasons that the "rebellion" we were all assured was natural and
inevitable.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob Collier

Your son sounds pretty much like my son in his interests in all
things military (my son is 11). And I was interested in all those
things as a boy myself.

It may not always be a man thing, though.

When my daughter was a little girl, she loved playing with My Little
Ponies and wearing frilly dresses.

Two years ago, completely out of the blue, she joined the Australian
Army Reserve as an officer cadet and as I write is in Queensland on a
month long training course that includes firing real weapons with
live ammo.

Bob




--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
>
> My now 13 yr old son said to DH last spring when he had saved up
enough to buy a BB gun - and he was soooooo excited - I guess he
could see that I was trying to be interested but failing
miserably: "Mom just doesn't get it does she? She's really not into
this is she? I guess it's a man thing."
>
> I too have gone through the whole worry thing about play army - our
son is passionate about anything military. There is no recent
military history in our family. He loves reenacting wars and
battles. Which has had it's great moments too. When younger he spent
hours and days digging a huge hole to get into as a bunker - the hole
is still there in the yard. He and a few friends made a film 2 yrs
ago which we watched again the other day and everyone had a good
laugh; he knows more war history and details than the majority of
people. He has favorite planes from WWII, etc. He knows war history
from ancient battles to modern. When he was younger I'd have one on
one talks with him about why it bothered me just so he knew my why.
I would talk about how I worried how he might get the impression that
war was fun - and he informed me he wasn't stupid, that he KNEW war
was terrible and horribly hurtful - he was just having fun with
something that interested him. He loved to put plastic army men in
the Christmas tree - which bothered me to no end so we talked about
my feelings too. He is so independent and has such a soft heart it
is quite a contradiction at times with his passion for war/military.
>
> He took HapKiDo (martial arts) for 7 years and then asked to stop
about 6 months away from a black belt - he was just wanting to move
on after twice a week for 7 years so we moved on. It has been 2
years since he moved on and has never said he wished he'd
continued. Now he is into carving wood and wanting to take horse
back riding - which he has done a bit here and there but not regular
so I think that is next.
>
> Back when our son was in school he was evaluated and the evaluator
insisted we seek counseling because he was so into war and guns, etc.
that she was worried. She even brought up examples of shootings in
the USA and we frankly were offended. When I tried to talk to her
about his passion for the history and facts as well as strategy and
economics of war, etc. she just insisted that his fascination went
beyond the norm. So we have also had talks with our son over the
years about society's expectations and how his passion with guns,
knives, war can be alarming to many.
>
>
> My mom reassures me that my very peaceful brother also played war -
and I remember playing cowboys and Indians a lot.
>
> Lisa W.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sandra Dodd
>
>
> -=I have a fear that my sons aggression and passion for hitting/
> karate/guns/swords will continue-=-
>
> -=-I have a fear that ... the peaceful soul of his when he was 3
and
> 4 will be lost in that power play stuff.-=-
>
> "Power play stuff" is part of becoming a man.
> You want him to grow up to be a man and not a peaceful three year
old.
>
> Lots of VERY gentle men grew up playing rough.
> Lots of very angry men grew up not being allowed to play rough
> (having to sneak it, or being punished for it).
> .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-if they are
> free to make their own choices what reason would they have to
rebel?-=-
>
> It's interesting, seeing kids make choices for quite different
> reasons that the "rebellion" we were all assured was natural and
> inevitable.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


LOL

One time, I was sent a promotion for a book aimed at the parents of
teenage girls. The sales letter was a litany of all the usual worst
case scenarios, presented as if the *are* inevitable, and there was
something about "Well, you know what a problem teenage girls are", so
I'm reading this and thinking, "Hmm ... maybe I should write back to
this guy and tell him my daughter's teenage years were a joy."

Bob

Sandra Dodd

-=-When my daughter was a little girl, she loved playing with My Little
Ponies and wearing frilly dresses.

Two years ago, completely out of the blue, she joined the Australian
Army Reserve as an officer cadet and as I write is in Queensland on a
month long training course that includes firing real weapons with
live ammo.
-=-

So if you'd encouraged gun play when she was little, she might be
home wearing frilly dresses today?
And little boys who play with My Little Ponies might grow up to join
the army!

Friends of mine whose main socio-political thing was feminism had a
daughter and bought her an equal number of girl toys and boy toys and
determined not to "influence" her in any way as to sexual preference
and all that. She LOVED lace and sequins and her parents were
ashamed. <bwg>

She's grown now and her parents are fine with her. She didn't grow
up too pink (not as pink as she started), nor did she have anything
to rebel against. She's just her, but definitely feminine. She was
Kirby's Ninja-Turtle watching buddy when they were little.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ed Wendell

Oh I know it is not necessarily a "man thing" - I grew up on a huge farm (about 2000 acres in Illinois) and drove tractors just the same as the guys. My dear dad was always teaching us things like how to drive at age 8 and how to shoot rifles, shot guns.

But I could almost tell it was a rite of passage so to speak for our son - he was so proud and thrilled he asked if he could just walk around the store carrying it. (it was a huge store) So we walked around the store for about 30 minutes.

I was just so happy he felt comfortable enough to even speak his deepest wishes to us. When I was a child I'd have wanted to walk around the store but would never have asked. Though I grew up so far out in the country that we pretty much bought everything from the Sears catalogue. ;)

Lisa W.



----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Collier


Your son sounds pretty much like my son in his interests in all
things military (my son is 11). And I was interested in all those
things as a boy myself.

It may not always be a man thing, though.

When my daughter was a little girl, she loved playing with My Little
Ponies and wearing frilly dresses.

Two years ago, completely out of the blue, she joined the Australian
Army Reserve as an officer cadet and as I write is in Queensland on a
month long training course that includes firing real weapons with
live ammo.

Bob
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]