general question
Sandra Dodd
Philosophically or legally, anyone have an opinion on this?
I'm not recommending people go look at the site. I glanced.
Something's for sale. If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
conference, I think).
Sandra
--------------------------------
From: nsbuck@...
Subject: Peaceful Parenting
Date: April 15, 2007 10:32:10 AM MDT
To: sandra@...
Dear Sandra,
Are you aware that Peaceful Parenting is a registered trademark? It
is. Please refrain from using this in the future and change the name
of the article that you have listed on the web.
Visit my web site at www.peacefulparenting.com to learn more if you
are interested.
Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
earth.
Thank you,
Nancy Buck, Ph.D.
author and founder of Peaceful Parenting Inc.
Improve your family. Improve your world
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not recommending people go look at the site. I glanced.
Something's for sale. If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
conference, I think).
Sandra
--------------------------------
From: nsbuck@...
Subject: Peaceful Parenting
Date: April 15, 2007 10:32:10 AM MDT
To: sandra@...
Dear Sandra,
Are you aware that Peaceful Parenting is a registered trademark? It
is. Please refrain from using this in the future and change the name
of the article that you have listed on the web.
Visit my web site at www.peacefulparenting.com to learn more if you
are interested.
Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
earth.
Thank you,
Nancy Buck, Ph.D.
author and founder of Peaceful Parenting Inc.
Improve your family. Improve your world
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally Brown
Personally, I would not be at all interested in what this woman has on
offer - if she is going to steal the words 'peaceful parenting' from
general usage and demand that people not use the words, then her
definition of 'peaceful relationships' doesn't mesh with mine!
It concerns me that so many words and other things are becoming
copyrighted, trademarked, 'owned' - time for the people to rise!
Revolution!! I say!!
Cally
who's tired and sore from working hard over the weekend mosaicing the
shower, and doesn't feel like getting up to feed the dog, let along
starting a revolution <g>
Sandra Dodd wrote:
offer - if she is going to steal the words 'peaceful parenting' from
general usage and demand that people not use the words, then her
definition of 'peaceful relationships' doesn't mesh with mine!
It concerns me that so many words and other things are becoming
copyrighted, trademarked, 'owned' - time for the people to rise!
Revolution!! I say!!
Cally
who's tired and sore from working hard over the weekend mosaicing the
shower, and doesn't feel like getting up to feed the dog, let along
starting a revolution <g>
Sandra Dodd wrote:
> Philosophically or legally, anyone have an opinion on this?
> I'm not recommending people go look at the site. I glanced.
> Something's for sale. If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
> it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
> she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
> conference, I think).
>
> Sandra
> --------------------------------
>
> From: nsbuck@...
> Subject: Peaceful Parenting
> Date: April 15, 2007 10:32:10 AM MDT
> To: sandra@...
>
> Dear Sandra,
> Are you aware that Peaceful Parenting is a registered trademark? It
> is. Please refrain from using this in the future and change the name
> of the article that you have listed on the web.
> Visit my web site at www.peacefulparenting.com to learn more if you
> are interested.
>
> Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
> earth.
>
> Thank you,
> Nancy Buck, Ph.D.
> author and founder of Peaceful Parenting Inc.
>
> Improve your family. Improve your world
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 15, 2007, at 3:25 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Seems to me I remember that McDonalds was able to stop a local
hamburger place from using the name McDonalds even though they had
been using it for a long time (and it was their family's name).
According to Wikipedia, Xerox works hard to make it known that people
can't "xerox" things so their trade marked name doesn't suffer
"genericide". They don't need to stop all uses, just make it known
that they're trying.
So it's possible she could work at telling people not to use
"peaceful parenting" (lower case) generically but hopefully she has
better things to do ;-)
But she can object to someone selling something that's titled
"Peaceful Parenting" since it could be confused with her product and
she's paid for a right to use the phrase.
Joyce
> Philosophically or legally, anyone have an opinion on this?More a thoughtful opinion than a legal one:
> I'm not recommending people go look at the site. I glanced.
> Something's for sale. If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
> it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
> she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
> conference, I think).
Seems to me I remember that McDonalds was able to stop a local
hamburger place from using the name McDonalds even though they had
been using it for a long time (and it was their family's name).
According to Wikipedia, Xerox works hard to make it known that people
can't "xerox" things so their trade marked name doesn't suffer
"genericide". They don't need to stop all uses, just make it known
that they're trying.
So it's possible she could work at telling people not to use
"peaceful parenting" (lower case) generically but hopefully she has
better things to do ;-)
But she can object to someone selling something that's titled
"Peaceful Parenting" since it could be confused with her product and
she's paid for a right to use the phrase.
Joyce
Pamela Sorooshian
She trademarked the phrase "Peaceful Parenting" in 2006 and it is the
name of her corporation. Yes, she could do that. There was supposed
to be a search to make sure that the phrase was not already being
utilized by someone else - that could include unregistered trademark
use. In other words, just because you hadn't actually registered the
trademark, if you were using it, it could be considered that you had
an unregistered trademark and that could have prevented her from
registering it. But, they didn't find that in the search so they let
her register it.
I'm not finding an "article" with that title, but you have a nice
page on your site with that title and we've listed that as one of
your talks to be given at the HSC conference. IF her trademark
registration was upheld then, yes, it would mean you were infringing
that copyright by using "Peaceful Parenting" as the title of your talk.
Noncommercial use of someone else's trademark is usually not
considered infringement unless that use "dilutes" the value of their
copyright by making it seem more like a generic term than one that
specifically applies to their own product.
The fact that you used the phrase, in a similar educational/parenting
context, before she did, and it appeared in print as the title of
your talk, tape, and webpage (and maybe article?), could very well
mean that a judge would rule that she should not have registered, in
the first place, because you had a prior unregistered trademark, and
so her use of it was actually an infringement of your unregistered
trademark.
Your tape was made at the 2002 HSC conference - so you did use the
phrase before she did, in public, as a title. And you continued to
actively use that phrase over the years.
I'm certainly not an expert in copyright law - just reporting on what
I could figure out by reading about the topic, online.
Food for thought. I'd talk to an attorney, if you know one willing to
do a little consulting for free.
-pam
name of her corporation. Yes, she could do that. There was supposed
to be a search to make sure that the phrase was not already being
utilized by someone else - that could include unregistered trademark
use. In other words, just because you hadn't actually registered the
trademark, if you were using it, it could be considered that you had
an unregistered trademark and that could have prevented her from
registering it. But, they didn't find that in the search so they let
her register it.
I'm not finding an "article" with that title, but you have a nice
page on your site with that title and we've listed that as one of
your talks to be given at the HSC conference. IF her trademark
registration was upheld then, yes, it would mean you were infringing
that copyright by using "Peaceful Parenting" as the title of your talk.
Noncommercial use of someone else's trademark is usually not
considered infringement unless that use "dilutes" the value of their
copyright by making it seem more like a generic term than one that
specifically applies to their own product.
The fact that you used the phrase, in a similar educational/parenting
context, before she did, and it appeared in print as the title of
your talk, tape, and webpage (and maybe article?), could very well
mean that a judge would rule that she should not have registered, in
the first place, because you had a prior unregistered trademark, and
so her use of it was actually an infringement of your unregistered
trademark.
Your tape was made at the 2002 HSC conference - so you did use the
phrase before she did, in public, as a title. And you continued to
actively use that phrase over the years.
I'm certainly not an expert in copyright law - just reporting on what
I could figure out by reading about the topic, online.
Food for thought. I'd talk to an attorney, if you know one willing to
do a little consulting for free.
-pam
On Apr 15, 2007, at 12:25 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
> it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
> she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
> conference, I think).
My Relay for Life walk is next weekend, so if you'd like to help
fight cancer, go to my webpage now!
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
emmy
i'm a visual artist so i know a bit about this but note also copyright can be confusing!
as far as when a work is created its automatically copyrighted whether registered or not (see end of email) ....it being literary (being your article body no one can copy, or her book) but as far as titles/phrases i'm a little sketchy even though it says below what is NOT copyrighted.....
look here http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wnp
under what is NOT copyrighted....it says
a.. Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
but she is registered as of 2000 for her book with that title as well as another author with the same book title in 2002
http://www.loc.gov/cgi-bin/formprocessor/copyright/locis.pl
so from the appearance of it she is just trying to get you to change your article name because when you google you are the number 2 site that pops up.......and your info is FREE so its probably making an impact on her site since hers is "paid access". my opinion legally/ethically i don't think she is correct, nor would i pay her much mind. if you did respond i would bring up the issue that another author has the same title...she may think you will bow gracefully if pursued about TM. honestly i doubt if she will pursue it as it wouldn't really be a case, nor truly worth her time/money!!! if your article is from a confrence that predated that-i would suggest siting to her that whether you are registered or not per the website- http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hsc
it will show her you have some knowledge and can't be bullied!
How to Secure a Copyright
Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation
The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration."
Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music ("copies") or in phonograph disks ("phonorecords"), or both. If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.
hth!!
emmy
www.cafepress.com/emmytofa
www.emmytofa.com
as far as when a work is created its automatically copyrighted whether registered or not (see end of email) ....it being literary (being your article body no one can copy, or her book) but as far as titles/phrases i'm a little sketchy even though it says below what is NOT copyrighted.....
look here http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wnp
under what is NOT copyrighted....it says
a.. Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
but she is registered as of 2000 for her book with that title as well as another author with the same book title in 2002
http://www.loc.gov/cgi-bin/formprocessor/copyright/locis.pl
so from the appearance of it she is just trying to get you to change your article name because when you google you are the number 2 site that pops up.......and your info is FREE so its probably making an impact on her site since hers is "paid access". my opinion legally/ethically i don't think she is correct, nor would i pay her much mind. if you did respond i would bring up the issue that another author has the same title...she may think you will bow gracefully if pursued about TM. honestly i doubt if she will pursue it as it wouldn't really be a case, nor truly worth her time/money!!! if your article is from a confrence that predated that-i would suggest siting to her that whether you are registered or not per the website- http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hsc
it will show her you have some knowledge and can't be bullied!
How to Secure a Copyright
Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation
The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration."
Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music ("copies") or in phonograph disks ("phonorecords"), or both. If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.
hth!!
emmy
www.cafepress.com/emmytofa
www.emmytofa.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] general question
Philosophically or legally, anyone have an opinion on this?
I'm not recommending people go look at the site. I glanced.
Something's for sale. If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
conference, I think).
Sandra
--------------------------------
From: nsbuck@...
Subject: Peaceful Parenting
Date: April 15, 2007 10:32:10 AM MDT
To: sandra@...
Dear Sandra,
Are you aware that Peaceful Parenting is a registered trademark? It
is. Please refrain from using this in the future and change the name
of the article that you have listed on the web.
Visit my web site at www.peacefulparenting.com to learn more if you
are interested.
Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
earth.
Thank you,
Nancy Buck, Ph.D.
author and founder of Peaceful Parenting Inc.
Improve your family. Improve your world
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
melissa
amen sister, 100%!
melissa
life is good
(oh yea, can't use that any more either!)
melissa
life is good
(oh yea, can't use that any more either!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Cally Brown
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] general question
Personally, I would not be at all interested in what this woman has on
offer - if she is going to steal the words 'peaceful parenting' from
general usage and demand that people not use the words, then her
definition of 'peaceful relationships' doesn't mesh with mine!
It concerns me that so many words and other things are becoming
copyrighted, trademarked, 'owned' - time for the people to rise!
Revolution!! I say!!
Cally
who's tired and sore from working hard over the weekend mosaicing the
shower, and doesn't feel like getting up to feed the dog, let along
starting a revolution <g>
Sandra Dodd wrote:
> Philosophically or legally, anyone have an opinion on this?
> I'm not recommending people go look at the site. I glanced.
> Something's for sale. If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
> it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
> she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
> conference, I think).
>
> Sandra
> --------------------------------
>
> From: nsbuck@...
> Subject: Peaceful Parenting
> Date: April 15, 2007 10:32:10 AM MDT
> To: sandra@...
>
> Dear Sandra,
> Are you aware that Peaceful Parenting is a registered trademark? It
> is. Please refrain from using this in the future and change the name
> of the article that you have listed on the web.
> Visit my web site at www.peacefulparenting.com to learn more if you
> are interested.
>
> Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
> earth.
>
> Thank you,
> Nancy Buck, Ph.D.
> author and founder of Peaceful Parenting Inc.
>
> Improve your family. Improve your world
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vicki Dennis
Google "peaceful parenting" and you will get an idea of why she sent this
to you.
I wonder if she also sent "warnings" to La Leche League or any of the other
sites or persons who have that phraseology.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to seek a truly "legal" opinion................surely
you have folks with law degrees in your wide circle who would jump at the
chance to do some work for the general good.
vicki
to you.
I wonder if she also sent "warnings" to La Leche League or any of the other
sites or persons who have that phraseology.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to seek a truly "legal" opinion................surely
you have folks with law degrees in your wide circle who would jump at the
chance to do some work for the general good.
vicki
On 4/15/07, Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2007, at 3:25 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
>
> > Philosophically or legally, anyone have an opinion on this?
> > I'm not recommending people go look at the site. I glanced.
> > Something's for sale. If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
> > it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
> > she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
> > conference, I think).
>
> More a thoughtful opinion than a legal one:
>
> Seems to me I remember that McDonalds was able to stop a local
> hamburger place from using the name McDonalds even though they had
> been using it for a long time (and it was their family's name).
>
> According to Wikipedia, Xerox works hard to make it known that people
> can't "xerox" things so their trade marked name doesn't suffer
> "genericide". They don't need to stop all uses, just make it known
> that they're trying.
>
> So it's possible she could work at telling people not to use
> "peaceful parenting" (lower case) generically but hopefully she has
> better things to do ;-)
>
> But she can object to someone selling something that's titled
> "Peaceful Parenting" since it could be confused with her product and
> she's paid for a right to use the phrase.
>
> Joyce
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
If you need to change it, would "Peaceable Parenting" work? You could
copyright it right quick!
Nancy
copyright it right quick!
Nancy
On Apr 15, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Vicki Dennis wrote:
> Google "peaceful parenting" and you will get an idea of why she sent
> this
> to you.
> I wonder if she also sent "warnings" to La Leche League or any of the
> other
> sites or persons who have that phraseology.
> Wouldn't be a bad idea to seek a truly "legal"
> opinion................surely
> you have folks with law degrees in your wide circle who would jump at
> the
> chance to do some work for the general good.
>
> vicki
>
> On 4/15/07, Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Apr 15, 2007, at 3:25 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
>>
>>> Philosophically or legally, anyone have an opinion on this?
>>> I'm not recommending people go look at the site. I glanced.
>>> Something's for sale. If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
>>> it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
>>> she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
>>> conference, I think).
>>
>> More a thoughtful opinion than a legal one:
>>
>> Seems to me I remember that McDonalds was able to stop a local
>> hamburger place from using the name McDonalds even though they had
>> been using it for a long time (and it was their family's name).
>>
>> According to Wikipedia, Xerox works hard to make it known that people
>> can't "xerox" things so their trade marked name doesn't suffer
>> "genericide". They don't need to stop all uses, just make it known
>> that they're trying.
>>
>> So it's possible she could work at telling people not to use
>> "peaceful parenting" (lower case) generically but hopefully she has
>> better things to do ;-)
>>
>> But she can object to someone selling something that's titled
>> "Peaceful Parenting" since it could be confused with her product and
>> she's paid for a right to use the phrase.
>>
>> Joyce
>>
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<< If you need to change it, would "Peaceable Parenting" work? You could
Robyn L. Coburn
> copyright it right quick! >>>Or "Parenting Peacefully".
Robyn L. Coburn
lspswr
Go to Amazon.com and type in "Peaceful Parenting." There are several
books with that title, or part of the title.
books with that title, or part of the title.
~Greg & Jill Hicks~
Hi, I'm a new group member! Seven children.the youngest now 12.
"Unschoolers" 21 years...
Anyway. I personally agree with Cally..
Furthermore, I think this woman is ridiculous and her agenda is only to
"make a buck".
I'm unfamiliar with the article that you refer to that you'd previously
written but at this point I'd contact an attorney who specializes in this
type of ridiculous law and find out.
:o) ~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Unschoolers" 21 years...
Anyway. I personally agree with Cally..
Furthermore, I think this woman is ridiculous and her agenda is only to
"make a buck".
I'm unfamiliar with the article that you refer to that you'd previously
written but at this point I'd contact an attorney who specializes in this
type of ridiculous law and find out.
:o) ~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm unfamiliar with the article that you refer to that you'd
previously
written but at this point I'd contact an attorney who specializes in
this
type of ridiculous law and find out.-=-
I don't think I want to pay an attorney about a webpage I already pay
to put out there so that people can read parenting and unschooling
advice for free.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
previously
written but at this point I'd contact an attorney who specializes in
this
type of ridiculous law and find out.-=-
I don't think I want to pay an attorney about a webpage I already pay
to put out there so that people can read parenting and unschooling
advice for free.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
space_and_freedom
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
hold all sorts of knowledge in his head about this and other sorts of
stuff:
If you were monetarily compensated for that conference (if they even
paid for your travel expenses) then you could claim you used the phase
"Peaceful Parenting" _in commerce_ before she trademarked it. That
means she did not do _due diligence_ before registering her trademark.
Thus her trademark is invalid. Theoretically, you could sue her.
So basically, I'd tell her to shove it.
Good luck,
Jen
space_and_freedom
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
><<snip>>
> She trademarked the phrase "Peaceful Parenting" in 2006
> Your tape was made at the 2002 HSC conference - so you did use theAccording to my husband (not a lawyer, but really smart and able to
> phrase before she did, in public, as a title. And you continued to
> actively use that phrase over the years.
hold all sorts of knowledge in his head about this and other sorts of
stuff:
If you were monetarily compensated for that conference (if they even
paid for your travel expenses) then you could claim you used the phase
"Peaceful Parenting" _in commerce_ before she trademarked it. That
means she did not do _due diligence_ before registering her trademark.
Thus her trademark is invalid. Theoretically, you could sue her.
So basically, I'd tell her to shove it.
Good luck,
Jen
space_and_freedom
> On Apr 15, 2007, at 12:25 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
>
> > If she "trademarked" a phrase like that, would
> > it matter if she did it after I wrote my article (and I'm not sure
> > she did, and anyway my "article" is from a presentation at a
> > conference, I think).
>
> My Relay for Life walk is next weekend, so if you'd like to help
> fight cancer, go to my webpage now!
> http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
John Rizzo
I am a lawyer, but not a copyright/trademark lawyer. I looked into the law and it seems like this is a very weak trademark. This is a similar situation to the Fox News lawsuit where they claimed sole right to "fair and balanced" because they registered the trademark; the judge laughed them out of court. Registering a trademark does not automatically make it valid.
A quick Google search found multiple books and articles prior to her trademark and book that use the terms peaceful parenting. You cannot have a valid trademark on common language.
Based on my quick review, I do not think she could possibly win a trademark infringement action.
Also, first in time does not automatically win the deal. I live near the semi-famous music school Interlochen. A camp out east sued them because it had been using the name Interlochen for almost 50-years longer. The courts ruled for the music school, because the public generally associated the name Interlochen with the music school, not the camp that used the name first.
With all that said, if you do not want a potential hassle change the title.
-John Rizzo
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A quick Google search found multiple books and articles prior to her trademark and book that use the terms peaceful parenting. You cannot have a valid trademark on common language.
Based on my quick review, I do not think she could possibly win a trademark infringement action.
Also, first in time does not automatically win the deal. I live near the semi-famous music school Interlochen. A camp out east sued them because it had been using the name Interlochen for almost 50-years longer. The courts ruled for the music school, because the public generally associated the name Interlochen with the music school, not the camp that used the name first.
With all that said, if you do not want a potential hassle change the title.
-John Rizzo
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-You cannot have a valid trademark on common language.-=-
Good.
I went and read in trademark gazette intention and approval PDF stuff
until my head started to hurt and couldn't find out how to find out
(other than skimming through every month for the past few years).
I think, but am not sure, that she added the trademark mark between
the time she first wrote to me and I went back. And I did read in
the laws I found that it's not illegal to use the mark prior to
actual registration. If she paid her $175 to register, she'll want
to run others away.
Somewhere in there was something about six months for other people to
appeal the approval, but I wasn't sure if it was the six months prior
to or right after the approval.
What I wrote to her, though, before I looked, was this, and the quote
was probably just something stock in her sigline and not actually
written directly to me:
From: sandra@...
Subject: Re: Peaceful Parenting
Date: April 16, 2007 8:29:32 AM MDT
To: nsbuck@...
-=-Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
earth.-=-
That sounds wonderful.
If you will send me a copy of your registration documents with the
dates, and if the dates are before the first time I gave a talk in
public called "Peaceful Parenting," then I'll consider changing the
name of the webpage to which you've referred and also the name of an
upcoming talk. That first talk was for sale on cassette tape at the
conference at which it was given within an hour or so of the end of
the talk, by the non-profit organization that organized the
conference. A similar talk has been given since, as well.
Sandra Dodd
====================
If I don't hear from her in a couple of days, I think I'll write back
and say I assume she's in the process of registration, as she didn't
send me anything, and that she should probably add another word to
her course's title as it's already been used by others and it's too
common for her to own, and that I'll send an appeal if the six months
aren't up (and quote that part).
That's my vague plan of the moment and other suggestions are
welcome! Thanks, all of you for the brainstorming.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Good.
I went and read in trademark gazette intention and approval PDF stuff
until my head started to hurt and couldn't find out how to find out
(other than skimming through every month for the past few years).
I think, but am not sure, that she added the trademark mark between
the time she first wrote to me and I went back. And I did read in
the laws I found that it's not illegal to use the mark prior to
actual registration. If she paid her $175 to register, she'll want
to run others away.
Somewhere in there was something about six months for other people to
appeal the approval, but I wasn't sure if it was the six months prior
to or right after the approval.
What I wrote to her, though, before I looked, was this, and the quote
was probably just something stock in her sigline and not actually
written directly to me:
From: sandra@...
Subject: Re: Peaceful Parenting
Date: April 16, 2007 8:29:32 AM MDT
To: nsbuck@...
-=-Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
earth.-=-
That sounds wonderful.
If you will send me a copy of your registration documents with the
dates, and if the dates are before the first time I gave a talk in
public called "Peaceful Parenting," then I'll consider changing the
name of the webpage to which you've referred and also the name of an
upcoming talk. That first talk was for sale on cassette tape at the
conference at which it was given within an hour or so of the end of
the talk, by the non-profit organization that organized the
conference. A similar talk has been given since, as well.
Sandra Dodd
====================
If I don't hear from her in a couple of days, I think I'll write back
and say I assume she's in the process of registration, as she didn't
send me anything, and that she should probably add another word to
her course's title as it's already been used by others and it's too
common for her to own, and that I'll send an appeal if the six months
aren't up (and quote that part).
That's my vague plan of the moment and other suggestions are
welcome! Thanks, all of you for the brainstorming.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
If you were monetarily compensated for that conference (if they even
paid for your travel expenses) then you could claim you used the phase
"Peaceful Parenting" _in commerce_ before she trademarked it. That
means she did not do _due diligence_ before registering her trademark.
Thus her trademark is invalid. Theoretically, you could sue her. -=-
The talked was named by me and Richard Prystowsky, and we spoke for a
non-profit (I think, right Pam?) organization's conference.
They sold the tapes. And more specifically, the guy who does the
taping sold the tapes. I've bought a few hundred from him and then
sold them when I was at conferences. That's not "commerce" in the
classic sense of the word, I don't think. Nobody used that name for
the purpose of making money.
The page in question is
http://sandradodd.com/peacefulparenting
Then there's this, from a talk Ren Allen and I gave:
http://sandradodd.com/rentalk
But there's also a book called Mindful Parenting (which came out
after the phrase was already being used on unschooling lists, but
y'know... we're using simple sensible English and not trying to make
up jargon. "Strewing" is kind of jargon, under the circumstances,
but it's the word for scattering things around.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you were monetarily compensated for that conference (if they even
paid for your travel expenses) then you could claim you used the phase
"Peaceful Parenting" _in commerce_ before she trademarked it. That
means she did not do _due diligence_ before registering her trademark.
Thus her trademark is invalid. Theoretically, you could sue her. -=-
The talked was named by me and Richard Prystowsky, and we spoke for a
non-profit (I think, right Pam?) organization's conference.
They sold the tapes. And more specifically, the guy who does the
taping sold the tapes. I've bought a few hundred from him and then
sold them when I was at conferences. That's not "commerce" in the
classic sense of the word, I don't think. Nobody used that name for
the purpose of making money.
The page in question is
http://sandradodd.com/peacefulparenting
Then there's this, from a talk Ren Allen and I gave:
http://sandradodd.com/rentalk
But there's also a book called Mindful Parenting (which came out
after the phrase was already being used on unschooling lists, but
y'know... we're using simple sensible English and not trying to make
up jargon. "Strewing" is kind of jargon, under the circumstances,
but it's the word for scattering things around.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
I thought about this whole thing and how it relates to the LIFE is Good
conference and the Life Is Good (tm) company... I read on their website (
lifeisgood.com) and they seem like the kind of folk who want people to
proclaim �Life is Good� whether they wear this specific brand of clothing or
not. I�d hope that someone who registers Peaceful Parenting would have
�Peaceful Parenting" as a global goal and happy to not have to take on the
task alone (hey, I live in diana� world and these things always work out
�ound here :D). Silly woman, I hope she� not taking out her TM angst on any
smaller humans!
conference and the Life Is Good (tm) company... I read on their website (
lifeisgood.com) and they seem like the kind of folk who want people to
proclaim �Life is Good� whether they wear this specific brand of clothing or
not. I�d hope that someone who registers Peaceful Parenting would have
�Peaceful Parenting" as a global goal and happy to not have to take on the
task alone (hey, I live in diana� world and these things always work out
�ound here :D). Silly woman, I hope she� not taking out her TM angst on any
smaller humans!
On 4/17/07, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-
> If you were monetarily compensated for that conference (if they even
> paid for your travel expenses) then you could claim you used the phase
> "Peaceful Parenting" _in commerce_ before she trademarked it. That
> means she did not do _due diligence_ before registering her trademark.
> Thus her trademark is invalid. Theoretically, you could sue her. -=-
>
> The talked was named by me and Richard Prystowsky, and we spoke for a
> non-profit (I think, right Pam?) organization's conference.
>
> They sold the tapes. And more specifically, the guy who does the
> taping sold the tapes. I've bought a few hundred from him and then
> sold them when I was at conferences. That's not "commerce" in the
> classic sense of the word, I don't think. Nobody used that name for
> the purpose of making money.
>
> The page in question is
> http://sandradodd.com/peacefulparenting
>
> Then there's this, from a talk Ren Allen and I gave:
> http://sandradodd.com/rentalk
>
> But there's also a book called Mindful Parenting (which came out
> after the phrase was already being used on unschooling lists, but
> y'know... we're using simple sensible English and not trying to make
> up jargon. "Strewing" is kind of jargon, under the circumstances,
> but it's the word for scattering things around.
>
>
>
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenstarc4
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
name, except that instead of com, it is net and org.
I checked at www.whois.net
Her particular domain has been in existence since 1999.
I don't know about the registration of the name, other than domain
name. So basically, you can't have that as a domain name unless you
get creative...
I think she's wrong. I'm not an expert or anything, but it would
seem that it wouldn't be infringement unless you were copying what
she is selling. Which you are not.
Her whole gig is choice theory. Honestly, I'd think she'd like the
extra advertisement to her site by having people checking you out
and running across the term "peaceful parenting" and then happening
upon her site. Is she going after LLL too? I'm sure they've been
using that term much longer than she has! Just the fact that they
have the same domain name says something.
wrote:
>And more than that, other people have that as a registered domain
> -=-You cannot have a valid trademark on common language.-=-
>
> Good.
name, except that instead of com, it is net and org.
I checked at www.whois.net
Her particular domain has been in existence since 1999.
I don't know about the registration of the name, other than domain
name. So basically, you can't have that as a domain name unless you
get creative...
I think she's wrong. I'm not an expert or anything, but it would
seem that it wouldn't be infringement unless you were copying what
she is selling. Which you are not.
Her whole gig is choice theory. Honestly, I'd think she'd like the
extra advertisement to her site by having people checking you out
and running across the term "peaceful parenting" and then happening
upon her site. Is she going after LLL too? I'm sure they've been
using that term much longer than she has! Just the fact that they
have the same domain name says something.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 17, 2007, at 8:47 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
if that was your purpose - it happened. And, if you were given any
compensation for speaking at that conference, including payment for
transportation/lodging, then that counts, too. Again, you didn't "do
it for the money," obviously, but, still, commerce happened.
-pam
My Relay for Life walk is next weekend, so if you'd like to help
fight cancer, go to my webpage now!
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> They sold the tapes. And more specifically, the guy who does theIt is commerce as long as something is bought/sold. It doesn't matter
> taping sold the tapes. I've bought a few hundred from him and then
> sold them when I was at conferences. That's not "commerce" in the
> classic sense of the word, I don't think. Nobody used that name for
> the purpose of making money.
if that was your purpose - it happened. And, if you were given any
compensation for speaking at that conference, including payment for
transportation/lodging, then that counts, too. Again, you didn't "do
it for the money," obviously, but, still, commerce happened.
-pam
My Relay for Life walk is next weekend, so if you'd like to help
fight cancer, go to my webpage now!
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Here's the follow-up from the person who registered "Peaceful
Parenting" and I'll send one more thing.
=================================
Dear Sandra,
Our certificate of registration from the US office of Patent and
Trademark Commission is dated December 16, 2003. You can obtain a
copy of the certificate as it is public record.
As you may imagine, we spent a great deal of money and time to obtain
this trademark. I am certainly enthusiastic about anyone who is also
trying to help parents develop and maintain a peaceful relationship
with thier children. At the same time I would appreciate your
honoring our legal ownership of the title.
Please visit our web site, www.peacefulparenting.com where you can
learn more about our work. You will also see the registered
trademark clearly displayed there.
Thank you for your cooperation.
In peace,
Nancy Buck
-----Original Message-----
From: sandra@...
To: nsbuck@...
Sent: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Peaceful Parenting
-=-Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
earth.-=-
That sounds wonderful.
If you will send me a copy of your registration documents with the
dates, and if the dates are before the first time I gave a talk in
public called "Peaceful Parenting," then I'll consider changing the
name of the webpage to which you've referred and also the name of an
upcoming talk. That first talk was for sale on cassette tape at the
conference at which it was given within an hour or so of the end of
the talk, by the non-profit organization that organized the
conference. A similar talk has been given since, as well.
Sandra Dodd
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Parenting" and I'll send one more thing.
=================================
Dear Sandra,
Our certificate of registration from the US office of Patent and
Trademark Commission is dated December 16, 2003. You can obtain a
copy of the certificate as it is public record.
As you may imagine, we spent a great deal of money and time to obtain
this trademark. I am certainly enthusiastic about anyone who is also
trying to help parents develop and maintain a peaceful relationship
with thier children. At the same time I would appreciate your
honoring our legal ownership of the title.
Please visit our web site, www.peacefulparenting.com where you can
learn more about our work. You will also see the registered
trademark clearly displayed there.
Thank you for your cooperation.
In peace,
Nancy Buck
-----Original Message-----
From: sandra@...
To: nsbuck@...
Sent: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Peaceful Parenting
-=-Let us all work together for peaceful relationships at home and on
earth.-=-
That sounds wonderful.
If you will send me a copy of your registration documents with the
dates, and if the dates are before the first time I gave a talk in
public called "Peaceful Parenting," then I'll consider changing the
name of the webpage to which you've referred and also the name of an
upcoming talk. That first talk was for sale on cassette tape at the
conference at which it was given within an hour or so of the end of
the talk, by the non-profit organization that organized the
conference. A similar talk has been given since, as well.
Sandra Dodd
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
From: sandra@...
Subject: Re: Peaceful Parenting
Date: May 2, 2007 8:33:58 AM MDT
To: nsbuck@...
-=-As you may imagine, we spent a great deal of money and time to
obtain this trademark. -=-
And you shouldn't have.
And the government should not have let you. You should have
particularized your registration with your name or another word.
It was neither peaceful nor honorable for you to have registered
plain English so that you could make money and prevent others from
doing kind things freely.
Did La Leche League agree to stop using something they had clearly
used for MANY years before 2003?
What you've done is not right and good, so how can it really be a
thing of real peace?
Sandra Dodd
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Subject: Re: Peaceful Parenting
Date: May 2, 2007 8:33:58 AM MDT
To: nsbuck@...
-=-As you may imagine, we spent a great deal of money and time to
obtain this trademark. -=-
And you shouldn't have.
And the government should not have let you. You should have
particularized your registration with your name or another word.
It was neither peaceful nor honorable for you to have registered
plain English so that you could make money and prevent others from
doing kind things freely.
Did La Leche League agree to stop using something they had clearly
used for MANY years before 2003?
What you've done is not right and good, so how can it really be a
thing of real peace?
Sandra Dodd
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]