Question
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My 11 yo son takes karate. At his dojo (which we love), studying hard and
getting good grades is encouraged. They give an academic patch to put on the
uniform to kids who get straight As during a couple of grading periods in a
year. This is pretty easy for little children to accomplish as they only need
all S's (satisfactory) on their report cards to get the patch, but for
children in the later grades it's quite a bit harder. My son really wants an
academic patch on his gi. I don't like the idea. I know that the kids of his
age in school who get all A's are working pretty hard, often in subject areas
they don't enjoy, and doing a lot of homework and stressing out about it.
This isn't the life I want for my son! On the other hand, it doesn't seem
fair to those other kids to give my son straight A's for his unschooling life
and him earn a patch for having a great time. But I want to help him with his
goals, and an academic patch is currently one of his goals. What do I do?
Priss
getting good grades is encouraged. They give an academic patch to put on the
uniform to kids who get straight As during a couple of grading periods in a
year. This is pretty easy for little children to accomplish as they only need
all S's (satisfactory) on their report cards to get the patch, but for
children in the later grades it's quite a bit harder. My son really wants an
academic patch on his gi. I don't like the idea. I know that the kids of his
age in school who get all A's are working pretty hard, often in subject areas
they don't enjoy, and doing a lot of homework and stressing out about it.
This isn't the life I want for my son! On the other hand, it doesn't seem
fair to those other kids to give my son straight A's for his unschooling life
and him earn a patch for having a great time. But I want to help him with his
goals, and an academic patch is currently one of his goals. What do I do?
Priss
Joylyn
When I taught, I would let the kids (this was
in a private school where each student has
his or her own curriculum, plan of study,
although we did do some group things) grade
themselves. We'd sit down at the end of each
semester and I'd show them (if it was like in
math or something) their scores on things I
graded, which were almost always 100% because
if they did a math problem wrong we redid it
together or the student redid it or whatever,
until we got it right, and same for papers,
we did a lot of rewriting. We wrote very few
papers, but most of them were rewritten until
publishable. Anyway, we'd talk about various
aspects of grades and then they would tell me
what grade they deserved. The kids were
almost always harder on themselves than I
would have been, which I found very amusing.
They would say "well, I think I only should
get a B because my attitude wasn't always so
great and sometimes I didn't want to do such
and such, and I don't remember all my dates
now, and I'd say, well, I think you deserve
an A because of these reasons. I mean, we
had to put something down, so we discussed it
and came up with something they found fair.
Almost all of my kids got an A, if they were
there most of the time, tried most of the
time, put some effort into it, etc. they got
an A. The ones that weren't there or came
stoned, or whatever, well, those kids were
always very hard on themselves. I think that
when given the opportunity kids will always
be more honest about their achievements. I'd
ask your son, sit down with the five or six
basic "subjects" that woudl be on a report
card and ask him to justify an A. If he can
do so, then give it to him. I think if you
think about it, justifying an A is not a big
deal.
That said, I got lots of "A's" I didn't
deserve. I mean, learning came easy for me
and test taking did too, in high school. If
I studied just a little, read the book once,
I could generally ace a multiple choice
test. ln college I rarely studied at all, I
figured out I could get a B without
studying--I'd read the book and that was
about it. No one cares I only got B's in
college, now. Grades are so arbitrary, I
know teachers that graded on how well they
liked a particular student, or teachers that
purposely graded very smart students
differently (this child can do MORE than this
child, so this paper is a B paper, so I can
make this child try harder, but this child is
not as smart, so I'll give him an A, even
though on another student it would be a B
paper.) I wouldn't worry a bit about giving
my child straight "A's".
Joylyn
Priss1000@... wrote:
in a private school where each student has
his or her own curriculum, plan of study,
although we did do some group things) grade
themselves. We'd sit down at the end of each
semester and I'd show them (if it was like in
math or something) their scores on things I
graded, which were almost always 100% because
if they did a math problem wrong we redid it
together or the student redid it or whatever,
until we got it right, and same for papers,
we did a lot of rewriting. We wrote very few
papers, but most of them were rewritten until
publishable. Anyway, we'd talk about various
aspects of grades and then they would tell me
what grade they deserved. The kids were
almost always harder on themselves than I
would have been, which I found very amusing.
They would say "well, I think I only should
get a B because my attitude wasn't always so
great and sometimes I didn't want to do such
and such, and I don't remember all my dates
now, and I'd say, well, I think you deserve
an A because of these reasons. I mean, we
had to put something down, so we discussed it
and came up with something they found fair.
Almost all of my kids got an A, if they were
there most of the time, tried most of the
time, put some effort into it, etc. they got
an A. The ones that weren't there or came
stoned, or whatever, well, those kids were
always very hard on themselves. I think that
when given the opportunity kids will always
be more honest about their achievements. I'd
ask your son, sit down with the five or six
basic "subjects" that woudl be on a report
card and ask him to justify an A. If he can
do so, then give it to him. I think if you
think about it, justifying an A is not a big
deal.
That said, I got lots of "A's" I didn't
deserve. I mean, learning came easy for me
and test taking did too, in high school. If
I studied just a little, read the book once,
I could generally ace a multiple choice
test. ln college I rarely studied at all, I
figured out I could get a B without
studying--I'd read the book and that was
about it. No one cares I only got B's in
college, now. Grades are so arbitrary, I
know teachers that graded on how well they
liked a particular student, or teachers that
purposely graded very smart students
differently (this child can do MORE than this
child, so this paper is a B paper, so I can
make this child try harder, but this child is
not as smart, so I'll give him an A, even
though on another student it would be a B
paper.) I wouldn't worry a bit about giving
my child straight "A's".
Joylyn
Priss1000@... wrote:
> My 11 yo son takes karate. At his dojoADVERTISEMENT
> (which we love), studying hard and
> getting good grades is encouraged. They
> give an academic patch to put on the
> uniform to kids who get straight As during
> a couple of grading periods in a
> year. This is pretty easy for little
> children to accomplish as they only need
> all S's (satisfactory) on their report
> cards to get the patch, but for
> children in the later grades it's quite a
> bit harder. My son really wants an
> academic patch on his gi. I don't like the
> idea. I know that the kids of his
> age in school who get all A's are working
> pretty hard, often in subject areas
> they don't enjoy, and doing a lot of
> homework and stressing out about it.
> This isn't the life I want for my son! On
> the other hand, it doesn't seem
> fair to those other kids to give my son
> straight A's for his unschooling life
> and him earn a patch for having a great
> time. But I want to help him with his
> goals, and an academic patch is currently
> one of his goals. What do I do?
>
> Priss
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/10/02 1:09:42 PM, joylyn@... writes:
<< They would say "well, I think I only should
get a B because my attitude wasn't always so
great and sometimes I didn't want to do such
and such, and I don't remember all my dates
now, and I'd say, well, I think you deserve
an A because of these reasons. >>
*grins*
I conned my English teacher into an A my senior year in high school this way.
I skipped classes, barely wrote in the journal he wanted us to keep, didn't
do many of the projects. When I came in for my review, he asked me what I'd
learned, and I said, in a humble voice, that I'd learned I could be
irresponsible about deadlines, that I tended to procrastinate instead of
breaking projects down into doable bits. I said I valued the journal because
it showed me over the course of the semester where I'd had opportunities and
hadn't availed myself of them. He nodded happily and gave me an A.
It was bunk. I simply didn't want to do the work -- I was too busy riding my
bike and partying with friends in the garden instead of going to class. I'd
already been accepted to UC Santa Cruz. Wasn't worried about grades.
I realize your students may have been absolutely sincere.
Sharon
<< They would say "well, I think I only should
get a B because my attitude wasn't always so
great and sometimes I didn't want to do such
and such, and I don't remember all my dates
now, and I'd say, well, I think you deserve
an A because of these reasons. >>
*grins*
I conned my English teacher into an A my senior year in high school this way.
I skipped classes, barely wrote in the journal he wanted us to keep, didn't
do many of the projects. When I came in for my review, he asked me what I'd
learned, and I said, in a humble voice, that I'd learned I could be
irresponsible about deadlines, that I tended to procrastinate instead of
breaking projects down into doable bits. I said I valued the journal because
it showed me over the course of the semester where I'd had opportunities and
hadn't availed myself of them. He nodded happily and gave me an A.
It was bunk. I simply didn't want to do the work -- I was too busy riding my
bike and partying with friends in the garden instead of going to class. I'd
already been accepted to UC Santa Cruz. Wasn't worried about grades.
I realize your students may have been absolutely sincere.
Sharon
[email protected]
On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:05:34 -0800 Joylyn <joylyn@...> writes:
started this stupid "report cards required" thing last year. I fought it,
and they allowed me to do "Narrative Summaries" instead, where I just
laid out what the kid had done with no value judgments (I wrote them and
got parents' okay, if they wanted that, or else they wrote and I edited
if necessary, again with their okay). They wouldn't allow summaries for
high school, though, and some parents thought the whole thing was too
much off a hassle anyway, so we just did all A's or O's (for Outstanding,
the K-3 deal was O -S - N).
The whole thing was one of the more annoying changes, and one of the
reasons I left. Although we have contemplated making up report cards to
take to Chuck E Cheese and get free tokens.
The Funky Catholic (there's an oxymoron for you) school I went to during
the seventies had no grades, just written evaluations... at the end of
every semester, I evaluated each class and teacher, and each teacher
evaluated me. It was fairly non-judgemental - "Daron learned to do X,
Y, and Z easily, and has starting working on A and B". That's the school
where I took classes on tea-making and the Equal Rights Amendment, in 3rd
grade or so...
Cacie has no experience with grades, I don't think. Once or twice she's
written out some math problems and then put an "A" at the top. She did
ask the other day if there was a grade called "E", and I told her the
story about how I moved from Funky Catholic School to a traditional
public school in the middle of 4th grade, and when I got my first
assignment back it had a big "E-" at the top. I figured A, B, C, D, E, F
- ohmigod, I almost flunked! And I'd only missed one....
I think it took a couple of days before I noticed that none of the papers
had A-D or F on them, and asked another kid, who explined the whole
(E)xcellent - (S)atisfactory - (N)eeds Improvement thing to me. Like kids
can't figure out that an N is an F..
Dar
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> When I taught, I would let the kids (this wasWhen I worked for the homeschooling charter school last year, they
> in a private school where each student has
> his or her own curriculum, plan of study,
> although we did do some group things) grade
> themselves.
started this stupid "report cards required" thing last year. I fought it,
and they allowed me to do "Narrative Summaries" instead, where I just
laid out what the kid had done with no value judgments (I wrote them and
got parents' okay, if they wanted that, or else they wrote and I edited
if necessary, again with their okay). They wouldn't allow summaries for
high school, though, and some parents thought the whole thing was too
much off a hassle anyway, so we just did all A's or O's (for Outstanding,
the K-3 deal was O -S - N).
The whole thing was one of the more annoying changes, and one of the
reasons I left. Although we have contemplated making up report cards to
take to Chuck E Cheese and get free tokens.
The Funky Catholic (there's an oxymoron for you) school I went to during
the seventies had no grades, just written evaluations... at the end of
every semester, I evaluated each class and teacher, and each teacher
evaluated me. It was fairly non-judgemental - "Daron learned to do X,
Y, and Z easily, and has starting working on A and B". That's the school
where I took classes on tea-making and the Equal Rights Amendment, in 3rd
grade or so...
Cacie has no experience with grades, I don't think. Once or twice she's
written out some math problems and then put an "A" at the top. She did
ask the other day if there was a grade called "E", and I told her the
story about how I moved from Funky Catholic School to a traditional
public school in the middle of 4th grade, and when I got my first
assignment back it had a big "E-" at the top. I figured A, B, C, D, E, F
- ohmigod, I almost flunked! And I'd only missed one....
I think it took a couple of days before I noticed that none of the papers
had A-D or F on them, and asked another kid, who explined the whole
(E)xcellent - (S)atisfactory - (N)eeds Improvement thing to me. Like kids
can't figure out that an N is an F..
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
[email protected]
What *I* would do would be ask the sensei to drop the program.
He probably wouldn't, right away, but down the line after the next glitch or
two, he probably would.
It's a damned shame to make school a factor in a non-school activity. If the
best karate student is NOT great at school it shouldn't matter. He should be
able to have a clean slate to succeed outside the stigma of his school
problems.
That's my opinion.
Sandra
He probably wouldn't, right away, but down the line after the next glitch or
two, he probably would.
It's a damned shame to make school a factor in a non-school activity. If the
best karate student is NOT great at school it shouldn't matter. He should be
able to have a clean slate to succeed outside the stigma of his school
problems.
That's my opinion.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/10/02 2:14:07 PM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< It's a damned shame to make school a factor in a non-school activity. If
the
best karate student is NOT great at school it shouldn't matter. He should be
able to have a clean slate to succeed outside the stigma of his school
problems. >>
*nods* I agree.
However, many dojos sell their programs to parents on the basis of: Your
child's concentration will improve, their schoolwork will improve, their
manners (particularly respect for authority) will improve. It soothes the
"training my kid to be a killer" fears. So they lean toward ways to tie in
school performance with dojo life. They see telling a child they must do
well in school to progress at the dojo as reality-based training. It's
acknowledged as an extra curricular activity.
Sharon
<< It's a damned shame to make school a factor in a non-school activity. If
the
best karate student is NOT great at school it shouldn't matter. He should be
able to have a clean slate to succeed outside the stigma of his school
problems. >>
*nods* I agree.
However, many dojos sell their programs to parents on the basis of: Your
child's concentration will improve, their schoolwork will improve, their
manners (particularly respect for authority) will improve. It soothes the
"training my kid to be a killer" fears. So they lean toward ways to tie in
school performance with dojo life. They see telling a child they must do
well in school to progress at the dojo as reality-based training. It's
acknowledged as an extra curricular activity.
Sharon
[email protected]
--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
make good grades, but not very many kids get the academic patch. It doesn't
seem to be much of an issue. I've never heard any lectures about kids not
studying enough, or not enough kids earning the patch, or any negative talk
at all about less than perfect grades. If a kid does bring in report cards
with the A's and they get the patch they are congratulated, but it's pretty
low key. Glenn's instructor is a great instance of a non-academically
talented karate student. He is 19 years old, the dojo owner's son, very
handsome, and the kindest, most loving, sweetest person I have ever known. He
is amazingly talented in karate and in kickboxing (holds numerous national
titles and several world titles) and not in the least at school. All his
years in school he never got straight A's or anything close to it and it
didn't matter. His dad didn't fuss at him, nobody cared that he didn't have
even one academic patch on his gi. So it's not like there is a stigma
attached to not having the patch. My son Glenn just wants to earn one. I'm
trying to figure out how to help him meet that goal in some sort of manner we
can both be happy with. I'd prefer it if he didn't care about the patch, but
for right now he does, so that's what I'm going to work with. Thanks to
everyone who has given me your thoughts on this.
Priss
> What *I* would do would be ask the sensei to drop the program.or
> He probably wouldn't, right away, but down the line after the next glitch
> two, he probably would.the
>
> It's a damned shame to make school a factor in a non-school activity. If
> best karate student is NOT great at school it shouldn't matter. He shouldbe
> able to have a clean slate to succeed outside the stigma of his schoolIt's not really much of a factor. They do encourage the kids to study and
> problems.
>
> That's my opinion.
>
> Sandra
make good grades, but not very many kids get the academic patch. It doesn't
seem to be much of an issue. I've never heard any lectures about kids not
studying enough, or not enough kids earning the patch, or any negative talk
at all about less than perfect grades. If a kid does bring in report cards
with the A's and they get the patch they are congratulated, but it's pretty
low key. Glenn's instructor is a great instance of a non-academically
talented karate student. He is 19 years old, the dojo owner's son, very
handsome, and the kindest, most loving, sweetest person I have ever known. He
is amazingly talented in karate and in kickboxing (holds numerous national
titles and several world titles) and not in the least at school. All his
years in school he never got straight A's or anything close to it and it
didn't matter. His dad didn't fuss at him, nobody cared that he didn't have
even one academic patch on his gi. So it's not like there is a stigma
attached to not having the patch. My son Glenn just wants to earn one. I'm
trying to figure out how to help him meet that goal in some sort of manner we
can both be happy with. I'd prefer it if he didn't care about the patch, but
for right now he does, so that's what I'm going to work with. Thanks to
everyone who has given me your thoughts on this.
Priss
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/10/02 12:47:49 PM, sharonve@... writes:
<< However, many dojos sell their programs to parents on the basis of: Your
child's concentration will improve, their schoolwork will improve, their
manners (particularly respect for authority) will improve. >>
Ah! Than find one that doesn't.
<<It's acknowledged as an extra curricular activity.>>
By the school? By the parents?
Because for us, for Kirby, his karate is a main activity, the major learning
opportunity, not secondary. They wanted him to work Thursdays, but scheduled
around the travel time for his karate class that day, leaving the store open
longer on Thursdays so Pokemon League could still be two hours, but Kirby
could go to karate.
I think every time you say "But he doesn't GO to school" it will be that much
more education for all those other parents! (and the teacher).
Sandra
<< However, many dojos sell their programs to parents on the basis of: Your
child's concentration will improve, their schoolwork will improve, their
manners (particularly respect for authority) will improve. >>
Ah! Than find one that doesn't.
<<It's acknowledged as an extra curricular activity.>>
By the school? By the parents?
Because for us, for Kirby, his karate is a main activity, the major learning
opportunity, not secondary. They wanted him to work Thursdays, but scheduled
around the travel time for his karate class that day, leaving the store open
longer on Thursdays so Pokemon League could still be two hours, but Kirby
could go to karate.
I think every time you say "But he doesn't GO to school" it will be that much
more education for all those other parents! (and the teacher).
Sandra
Joylyn
sharonve@... wrote:
to help them gain ownership of their
education.
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>some were, some were not. It was an attempt
> I realize your students may have been
> absolutely sincere.
to help them gain ownership of their
education.
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
>>Because for us, for Kirby, his karate is a main activity, the majorThis is how gymnastics is for Casey. It's her time to be part of a team,
>>learning opportunity, not secondary.>>
work on specific skills, have an actual teacher (Casey likes this), set
goals and make new friends. Lots of the other girls are burning out by going
to school all day and then gym. When parent's ask what I would suggest, I
always say the kid is overscheduled. Time to drop school. ;-) You should see
the looks I get.
~Mary
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> although frankly statements like "going to have problemsNot too long ago, on another list that many of us here are also members of,
> here" or "hard to muster the desire to discuss anything" don't make
> a new member want to share much of anything.
>
someone played devil's advocate. She made up stories and argued with our
heartfelt responses. The discussion went on for days before she admitted that she
made everything up in an effort to see how we "really" felt. So, like Pam
suggested, if you want to talk about real kids, great. If I don't know if you're
being truthful or not, it may influence my decision to respond.
Mary J
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kay Alina
Is AlwaysLearning now a TCS discussion board?
*************************************************
We've not had a problem with seatbelts and our own children since toddlerhood, but sometimes with visiting children it's been an issue. My own kids are more likely to freak out if I even start the car before they're buckled in, but they've all resisted the carseat after age 3 or so. The most recent version of this is that Dan wants his carseat moved to the middle of the backseat (right now they each sit at a window). Sure, I could buckle his seat in there, but it would really crowd his brother. What do you say when the only reason you can't comply is fairness to others? He's never acknowledged it would be unfair to his brother -- I've just told him I won't do it.
I find my biggest challenge with consensual living is reaching a compromise when one of us wants/needs to go somewhere and others resist going along. My kids are too young to stay home alone, and we simply don't have the income to pay a sitter (besides where would I find someone mid-day on a weekday during the schoolyear?). It seems the more I try to convince for the activity or commitment, the more resistance I get. Fortunately, it's not terribly often, but invariably it's when I simply don't have the time to negotiate.
A recent example is that Andy has decided we doesn't want to go along to LaLeche meetings. I'm one of two leaders in our group, so skipping the meeting really isn't an option. I'm on call for the phones one day a week, and also listed online, so I sometimes get calls when it's not my day. When I interrupt or have to put off something he wants to take a call, he's very upset. This week, he's said several times that he'd like me to quit LaLeche League. That's not an option -- I really enjoy this and it's important to me.
And what do you do/say within TCS for those instances where two children are at complete odds over something and there's just no physical way to accommodate both?
Syl
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*************************************************
We've not had a problem with seatbelts and our own children since toddlerhood, but sometimes with visiting children it's been an issue. My own kids are more likely to freak out if I even start the car before they're buckled in, but they've all resisted the carseat after age 3 or so. The most recent version of this is that Dan wants his carseat moved to the middle of the backseat (right now they each sit at a window). Sure, I could buckle his seat in there, but it would really crowd his brother. What do you say when the only reason you can't comply is fairness to others? He's never acknowledged it would be unfair to his brother -- I've just told him I won't do it.
I find my biggest challenge with consensual living is reaching a compromise when one of us wants/needs to go somewhere and others resist going along. My kids are too young to stay home alone, and we simply don't have the income to pay a sitter (besides where would I find someone mid-day on a weekday during the schoolyear?). It seems the more I try to convince for the activity or commitment, the more resistance I get. Fortunately, it's not terribly often, but invariably it's when I simply don't have the time to negotiate.
A recent example is that Andy has decided we doesn't want to go along to LaLeche meetings. I'm one of two leaders in our group, so skipping the meeting really isn't an option. I'm on call for the phones one day a week, and also listed online, so I sometimes get calls when it's not my day. When I interrupt or have to put off something he wants to take a call, he's very upset. This week, he's said several times that he'd like me to quit LaLeche League. That's not an option -- I really enjoy this and it's important to me.
And what do you do/say within TCS for those instances where two children are at complete odds over something and there's just no physical way to accommodate both?
Syl
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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ADVERTISEMENT
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/24/04 10:36:32 AM, angelsguard@... writes:
<< Is AlwaysLearning now a TCS discussion board? >>
No.
It's really time to wind it down, I think.
Last call for other websites and discussion groups so those who are
interested can go there and continue.
Sandra
<< Is AlwaysLearning now a TCS discussion board? >>
No.
It's really time to wind it down, I think.
Last call for other websites and discussion groups so those who are
interested can go there and continue.
Sandra
eriksmama2001
Try [email protected].
Pat
Pat
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/24/04 10:36:32 AM, angelsguard@s... writes:
>
> << Is AlwaysLearning now a TCS discussion board? >>
>
> No.
>
> It's really time to wind it down, I think.
>
> Last call for other websites and discussion groups so those who are
> interested can go there and continue.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/24/04 11:20:33 AM, scubamama@... writes:
<< [email protected] >>
1 freethinking_unschoolers
KEYWORDS: homeschool homeschooling unschool unschooling natural learning
radical eclectic John Holt Summerhill Sudbury freethinker secular bright atheism
atheist agnosticism agnostic rationalism rationalist humanism humanist
pantheism pantheist cosmism cosmist cosmotheism cosmotheist UU universal unitarian
unitarianism zen pagan new age ... Freethinker \Free"think`er\, n. One who has
rejected authority and dogma in favor of rational inquiry and speculation;
especially, in the sphere or religion, ... more 216
Is there something more directly about TCS without the religious bent?
<< [email protected] >>
1 freethinking_unschoolers
KEYWORDS: homeschool homeschooling unschool unschooling natural learning
radical eclectic John Holt Summerhill Sudbury freethinker secular bright atheism
atheist agnosticism agnostic rationalism rationalist humanism humanist
pantheism pantheist cosmism cosmist cosmotheism cosmotheist UU universal unitarian
unitarianism zen pagan new age ... Freethinker \Free"think`er\, n. One who has
rejected authority and dogma in favor of rational inquiry and speculation;
especially, in the sphere or religion, ... more 216
Is there something more directly about TCS without the religious bent?
eriksmama2001
A friend found a site [email protected]
Looks very interesting. Have you seen it?
Pat
Looks very interesting. Have you seen it?
Pat
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/24/04 11:20:33 AM, scubamama@e... writes:
>
> << [email protected] >>
>
> 1 freethinking_unschoolers
> KEYWORDS: homeschool homeschooling unschool unschooling natural
learning
> radical eclectic John Holt Summerhill Sudbury freethinker secular
bright atheism
> atheist agnosticism agnostic rationalism rationalist humanism
humanist
> pantheism pantheist cosmism cosmist cosmotheism cosmotheist UU
universal unitarian
> unitarianism zen pagan new age ... Freethinker \Free"think`er\, n.
One who has
> rejected authority and dogma in favor of rational inquiry and
speculation;
> especially, in the sphere or religion, ... more 216
>
>
> Is there something more directly about TCS without the religious
bent?
eriksmama2001
I am a card carrying member of La Leche. (Literally have a card with
the North Carolina law with statue number and exact law stating that
a women has the right to breastfeed in any public or private place
that she has a right be.) I was devoted to helping other new mothers
learn to breastfeed.
But my son is apparently an introvert or at least he was very
disturbed by all the people and activity in such a small room in
which we had our La Leche meetings. I am an extravert. I NEED people
to discuss ideas with. I NEED the social contact with other adults.
But, I chose to get my needs met elsewhere. I still offer my support
to breastfeeding mothers but we can't be in such a small room for an
hour or two. We meet other La Leche moms at the park. We chat and e-
mail. I untangled what each of our priority needs and wants were by
searching for the answers within us through questioning and
observing.
Solutions are infinite when sought creatively through negotiation.
Some options do not initially appear comfortable. But one eliminates
possible solutions when something is "not an option". By keeping all
options open and confidence that "having to" or "making someone" is
going to obstruct the creative process of problem solving, one is
empowered to find a common preference.
What need are you trying to meet? What need is the child trying to
meet? Share this information. Ask for this information. Explain the
effects on you or others. Elicit their knowledge and feelings. Share
your knowledge and feelings. Ask for suggestions from others as you
have here, but also with the people involved.
Validate their desires and needs. Choosing to avoid the possibility
of "making them" empowers their ability to creatively solve problems.
Consensual living is a skill that they can learn to develop with
opportunities to practice. Why spend the energy to solve a problem
when they or you know that the solution is "not negotiable".
Pat
--- In [email protected], "Kay Alina" <angelsguard@s...>
wrote:
issue. My own kids are more likely to freak out if I even start the
car before they're buckled in, but they've all resisted the carseat
after age 3 or so. The most recent version of this is that Dan wants
his carseat moved to the middle of the backseat (right now they each
sit at a window). Sure, I could buckle his seat in there, but it
would really crowd his brother. What do you say when the only reason
you can't comply is fairness to others? He's never acknowledged it
would be unfair to his brother -- I've just told him I won't do it.
resist going along. My kids are too young to stay home alone, and we
simply don't have the income to pay a sitter (besides where would I
find someone mid-day on a weekday during the schoolyear?). It seems
the more I try to convince for the activity or commitment, the more
resistance I get. Fortunately, it's not terribly often, but
invariably it's when I simply don't have the time to negotiate.
skipping the meeting really isn't an option. I'm on call for the
phones one day a week, and also listed online, so I sometimes get
calls when it's not my day. When I interrupt or have to put off
something he wants to take a call, he's very upset. This week, he's
said several times that he'd like me to quit LaLeche League. That's
not an option -- I really enjoy this and it's important to me.
physical way to accommodate both?
the North Carolina law with statue number and exact law stating that
a women has the right to breastfeed in any public or private place
that she has a right be.) I was devoted to helping other new mothers
learn to breastfeed.
But my son is apparently an introvert or at least he was very
disturbed by all the people and activity in such a small room in
which we had our La Leche meetings. I am an extravert. I NEED people
to discuss ideas with. I NEED the social contact with other adults.
But, I chose to get my needs met elsewhere. I still offer my support
to breastfeeding mothers but we can't be in such a small room for an
hour or two. We meet other La Leche moms at the park. We chat and e-
mail. I untangled what each of our priority needs and wants were by
searching for the answers within us through questioning and
observing.
Solutions are infinite when sought creatively through negotiation.
Some options do not initially appear comfortable. But one eliminates
possible solutions when something is "not an option". By keeping all
options open and confidence that "having to" or "making someone" is
going to obstruct the creative process of problem solving, one is
empowered to find a common preference.
What need are you trying to meet? What need is the child trying to
meet? Share this information. Ask for this information. Explain the
effects on you or others. Elicit their knowledge and feelings. Share
your knowledge and feelings. Ask for suggestions from others as you
have here, but also with the people involved.
Validate their desires and needs. Choosing to avoid the possibility
of "making them" empowers their ability to creatively solve problems.
Consensual living is a skill that they can learn to develop with
opportunities to practice. Why spend the energy to solve a problem
when they or you know that the solution is "not negotiable".
Pat
--- In [email protected], "Kay Alina" <angelsguard@s...>
wrote:
>toddlerhood, but sometimes with visiting children it's been an
> Is AlwaysLearning now a TCS discussion board?
>
> *************************************************
>
>
> We've not had a problem with seatbelts and our own children since
issue. My own kids are more likely to freak out if I even start the
car before they're buckled in, but they've all resisted the carseat
after age 3 or so. The most recent version of this is that Dan wants
his carseat moved to the middle of the backseat (right now they each
sit at a window). Sure, I could buckle his seat in there, but it
would really crowd his brother. What do you say when the only reason
you can't comply is fairness to others? He's never acknowledged it
would be unfair to his brother -- I've just told him I won't do it.
>compromise when one of us wants/needs to go somewhere and others
> I find my biggest challenge with consensual living is reaching a
resist going along. My kids are too young to stay home alone, and we
simply don't have the income to pay a sitter (besides where would I
find someone mid-day on a weekday during the schoolyear?). It seems
the more I try to convince for the activity or commitment, the more
resistance I get. Fortunately, it's not terribly often, but
invariably it's when I simply don't have the time to negotiate.
>along to LaLeche meetings. I'm one of two leaders in our group, so
> A recent example is that Andy has decided we doesn't want to go
skipping the meeting really isn't an option. I'm on call for the
phones one day a week, and also listed online, so I sometimes get
calls when it's not my day. When I interrupt or have to put off
something he wants to take a call, he's very upset. This week, he's
said several times that he'd like me to quit LaLeche League. That's
not an option -- I really enjoy this and it's important to me.
>children are at complete odds over something and there's just no
> And what do you do/say within TCS for those instances where two
physical way to accommodate both?
>----------
> Syl
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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Letty
I am learning about unschooling. My question is: When people ask you
what grade is your child in? What do you answer?
Thank you,
Letty
what grade is your child in? What do you answer?
Thank you,
Letty
Jay
I just say they're homeschooled. If they persist, I just say we don't
do grades, since we don't follow a rigid curriculum. Usually that
suffices.
Jay
do grades, since we don't follow a rigid curriculum. Usually that
suffices.
Jay
--- In [email protected], "Letty" <lapalapaus@...> wrote:
>
> I am learning about unschooling. My question is: When people ask you
> what grade is your child in? What do you answer?
> Thank you,
> Letty
>
graberamy
When we first started I knew exactly what grade they were supposed to
be in. Now, I'm sometimes caught off guard and have to ask them. My
daughter usually knows, my son, couldn't care less.
Guess something close...they're probably just trying to make
conversation! Or just answer it w/ we homeschool and ask them a
question (what grade are you in, isn't this weather great).
amy g
iowa
be in. Now, I'm sometimes caught off guard and have to ask them. My
daughter usually knows, my son, couldn't care less.
Guess something close...they're probably just trying to make
conversation! Or just answer it w/ we homeschool and ask them a
question (what grade are you in, isn't this weather great).
amy g
iowa
--- In [email protected], "Letty" <lapalapaus@...> wrote:
>
> I am learning about unschooling. My question is: When people ask you
> what grade is your child in? What do you answer?
> Thank you,
> Letty
>
Joylyn
In our house, we skip around. Alexx needs to be in 9th grade for something, well, then, she's now in 9th grade. It's so stupid, this grade thing. Even in school, or especially in school, kids are very often not in the grade they "belong in" as determined by age. So many parents are holding kids back or starting them early. Kids skip a grade, or are retained, per some whim of a teacher or an administrator or a parent, so why should I not, as all three, also change grades per whatever whim I feel at the moment.
But, more on topic, Alexx's response is usually college, these days. Technically, by her age, she should have just finished her 7th grade year, but after two skips for whatever reason that seemed important at the time, she just finished 9th grade. But mostly, it doesn't matter.
Joylyn
---- graberamy <graber@...> wrote:
But, more on topic, Alexx's response is usually college, these days. Technically, by her age, she should have just finished her 7th grade year, but after two skips for whatever reason that seemed important at the time, she just finished 9th grade. But mostly, it doesn't matter.
Joylyn
---- graberamy <graber@...> wrote:
> When we first started I knew exactly what grade they were supposed to
> be in. Now, I'm sometimes caught off guard and have to ask them. My
> daughter usually knows, my son, couldn't care less.
>
> Guess something close...they're probably just trying to make
> conversation! Or just answer it w/ we homeschool and ask them a
> question (what grade are you in, isn't this weather great).
>
>
> amy g
> iowa
> --- In [email protected], "Letty" <lapalapaus@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am learning about unschooling. My question is: When people ask you
> > what grade is your child in? What do you answer?
> > Thank you,
> > Letty
> >
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/23/2008 10:35:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lapalapaus@... writes:
<<<My question is: When people ask you
what grade is your child in? What do you answer?>>>
Since my oldest is rather outgoing, the question is usually directed at him
and he usually just says, "We don't do grades, we homeschool", rather
matter-of-factly. If I get the question, I'm almost always alone, and I really don't
know, so I look confused, try to count, then I usually just give up and say
his age, hoping that's what they were looking for. Sometimes that's it,
sometimes they'll offer something like, "So, that's 3rd or 4th grade then?" or
something like that.
We sometimes get "teacher" questions, too, which Wyl likes to field. His
standard answer is, "I don't have teachers, I homeschool", and will clarify that
he learns on his own if people insist that of course his mom is his teacher.
:~)
Peace,
De
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lapalapaus@... writes:
<<<My question is: When people ask you
what grade is your child in? What do you answer?>>>
Since my oldest is rather outgoing, the question is usually directed at him
and he usually just says, "We don't do grades, we homeschool", rather
matter-of-factly. If I get the question, I'm almost always alone, and I really don't
know, so I look confused, try to count, then I usually just give up and say
his age, hoping that's what they were looking for. Sometimes that's it,
sometimes they'll offer something like, "So, that's 3rd or 4th grade then?" or
something like that.
We sometimes get "teacher" questions, too, which Wyl likes to field. His
standard answer is, "I don't have teachers, I homeschool", and will clarify that
he learns on his own if people insist that of course his mom is his teacher.
:~)
Peace,
De
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I live in the UK but was raised in the U.S. so I don't know what grade Simon and Linnaea would be in. If I were in the U.S. there would probably be a pause while I calculated what grade they would be in. In the U.K. I just say how old they are, or say something like they don't go to school. I don't tend to get asked that a lot. I imagine that Simon and Linnaea are more likely to be asked that by other children than I am these days.
Oh, I just looked it up. Linnaea would be in year 3 or year 4 and Simon would be in year 6 or year 7. So that prepares me for the next year, I guess.
You could just say if she was in school she'd be in grade X.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Letty <lapalapaus@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June, 2008 3:18:29 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Question
I am learning about unschooling. My question is: When people ask you
what grade is your child in? What do you answer?
Thank you,
Letty
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh, I just looked it up. Linnaea would be in year 3 or year 4 and Simon would be in year 6 or year 7. So that prepares me for the next year, I guess.
You could just say if she was in school she'd be in grade X.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Letty <lapalapaus@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June, 2008 3:18:29 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Question
I am learning about unschooling. My question is: When people ask you
what grade is your child in? What do you answer?
Thank you,
Letty
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MLewis
I usually just say how old my child is, since that's usually the
underlying question. If they want to figure out what grade that would
correspond to I suppose they could.
Mary
underlying question. If they want to figure out what grade that would
correspond to I suppose they could.
Mary
--- In [email protected], "Letty" <lapalapaus@...> wrote:
>
> I am learning about unschooling. My question is: When people ask you
> what grade is your child in? What do you answer?
> Thank you,
> Letty
>
Leah P
I am embarassed to say that I signed up for this group a looooong time ago and haven't opened it up again until today.
As I never did an intro to the group, I'll start with that. I am homeschooling my youngest child, and have homeschooled my oldest one although she is back in public school now (her choice). We live in a small town, my husband works a lot of hours and generally doesn't do any of the schooling with the kids unless there is a specific piece of a project that he wants to/is asked to do. I am a home daycare provider and so we are basically home bound most of the week.
I've not been unschooling but have always been interested in it. I always intended to look into it and see how it would work for us but just never got the chance. And then today, Alora out of the blue started talking about wanting to be in a wheel chair. It sparked a discussion about how life would change for her which turned into a discussion about accessibility. She went all around the house and pointed out all the things that would be difficult for her if she was in a wheelchair and is very interested in talking about it! So, then I realized that it would be awesome for her developing empathy to get her a wheelchair and let her spend a day or two trying to figure out how to get around during our daily activities. So I posted to our freecycle sites looking for a child sized wheel chair that we could borrow/have. Then all of the sudden I realized - "This must be what homeschooling is like!" We could spend days measuring areas of the house and designing accessible equiptment. I haven't seen her this excited about learning but she doesn't even seem to know that she's learning...so AWESOME!!
Here's the question - My big concern is that we'll commit to unschooling and then she'll decide to go back to public school next year and won't have learned yet the stuff that she'll need in order to transition back in. I'm also concerned that I can't with my schedule unschool successfully. I can't just up and go to the museum or a library to learn more about something she's interested in. We can't go for nature walks every day. We are stuck in this house for a good portion of most days, and I've always thought that unschoolers are able to do what they do because they have more opportunities to get out in the world. Is there anyone else who had these concerns/limitations when they started unschooling? If so....how did you get past them?
Thanks!
Leah
As I never did an intro to the group, I'll start with that. I am homeschooling my youngest child, and have homeschooled my oldest one although she is back in public school now (her choice). We live in a small town, my husband works a lot of hours and generally doesn't do any of the schooling with the kids unless there is a specific piece of a project that he wants to/is asked to do. I am a home daycare provider and so we are basically home bound most of the week.
I've not been unschooling but have always been interested in it. I always intended to look into it and see how it would work for us but just never got the chance. And then today, Alora out of the blue started talking about wanting to be in a wheel chair. It sparked a discussion about how life would change for her which turned into a discussion about accessibility. She went all around the house and pointed out all the things that would be difficult for her if she was in a wheelchair and is very interested in talking about it! So, then I realized that it would be awesome for her developing empathy to get her a wheelchair and let her spend a day or two trying to figure out how to get around during our daily activities. So I posted to our freecycle sites looking for a child sized wheel chair that we could borrow/have. Then all of the sudden I realized - "This must be what homeschooling is like!" We could spend days measuring areas of the house and designing accessible equiptment. I haven't seen her this excited about learning but she doesn't even seem to know that she's learning...so AWESOME!!
Here's the question - My big concern is that we'll commit to unschooling and then she'll decide to go back to public school next year and won't have learned yet the stuff that she'll need in order to transition back in. I'm also concerned that I can't with my schedule unschool successfully. I can't just up and go to the museum or a library to learn more about something she's interested in. We can't go for nature walks every day. We are stuck in this house for a good portion of most days, and I've always thought that unschoolers are able to do what they do because they have more opportunities to get out in the world. Is there anyone else who had these concerns/limitations when they started unschooling? If so....how did you get past them?
Thanks!
Leah
Kelly Halldorson
>Here's the question - My big concern is that we'll commit to unschooling and then she'll decide to go back to public school next >year and won't have learned yet the stuff that she'll need in order to transition back in. I'm also concerned that I can't with my >schedule unschool successfully.If you continue to think about things this way it's just not going to work right, act more as though the school doesn't exist.
>I can't just up and go to the museum or a library to learn more about something she's interested in. We can't go for nature walks >every day.Can you look things up online when you are home? Can you hang out in your backyard? Can you schedule a trip to the library? Can you find television programs and/or movies that are of interest to her? Are you able to engage with her in conversation when you are home?
>We are stuck in this house for a good portion of most days,Why?
>and I've always thought that unschoolers are able to doA couple of months ago we were without a vehicle. We stayed home most of the time. If there was somewhere we needed or wanted to go we found a way to get there...or at least get the kids the opportunity to get there. Often times there are options you didn't ever think of.
>what they do because they have more opportunities to get out in the world.
I think of "can't" much like Sandra wrote about "have to's"
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===My big concern is that we'll commit to unschooling and then she'll decide to go back to public school next year and won't have learned yet the stuff that she'll need in order to transition back in.===
How old is Alora? Unless she's quite young, you should be able to talk with her about this concern and let her know that if she decides to return to public school that she'll (likely) have to test in order for the school to determine which grade she'll return to.
That said, you can't commit to unschooling if you're worried about "what if she returns to public school". If, at some point down the road, she wants to go back to public school, cross that bridge when you get to it. Unschooling is not the same as learn-at-home homeschooling, though, so some deschooling is definitely needed. That might be a challenge if your home daycare is structured in a schoolish way, though.
===We are stuck in this house for a good portion of most days, and I've always thought that unschoolers are able to do what they do because they have more opportunities to get out in the world.===
If you're doing home daycare, that job becomes a priority over unschooling while the daycare kids are there, does it not? That would certainly restrict your ability to do things spontaneously away from home with your kids. It's not unschooling that creates the restriction; the same restriction exists doing school-at-home homeschooling, or when your older daughter is in public school.
Not everything has to be done during "office hours" (or whatever hours you do daycare). Walks can happen in the evenings or even at night (if your neighborhood is safe for that). If you live near water, going to the water at night is fun and so much different than going during the day. Museums and libraries are generally open on the weekends. I know our local library is open til 9:00pm some weeknights. If you have a Walmart there, poking around Walmart at night can be interesting -- the people watching alone is interesting! Very different crowd shopping at night than in the daytime.
Instead of looking at what you can't do, look at what you CAN. If you didn't do home daycare during the day, what kinds of things would y'all do away from home? Take that info and figure out which of those things can be done other than during your business hours.
By the way, "stuck in this house" is so very negative. You *choose* to do home daycare; it allows you to be at home with your kids, even though it doesn't necessarily allow for spur-of-the-moment things away from home. What kinds of things can you make available at home to get away from that "stuck" thinking??? If it's a hot climate, see about getting some type of backyard pool -- they start from really inexpensive - or make use of a sprinkler often. Have mud fights. Plug in a box fan outside and buy a big bottle of bubbles and various bubble wands and let the kids play with those in front of the fan. Have the kids help set up an obstacle course. Find ways to make outside fun.
There were a couple years when we were a one-car family and my husband would be gone for 1-2 weeks at a time. We live in Texas and it's HOT in the summer, so going for walks or bike rides wasn't remotely appealing, and there's not public transportation near us, so my son and I spent A LOT of days-in-a-row at home. We invested in an above-ground pool - best $100 we ever spent. We had internet, netflix, and video game systems that allowed us to connect with us people. When my husband was in town, we did lots of things away from home so that by the time a week he would be away from home rolled around, my son and I were ready for a stretch of days at home. We also have relatives nearby and my son was able to spend time with various cousins several days a week. There are ways to work around that stuck feeling that can come with being mostly homebound all week.
===So, then I realized that it would be awesome for her developing empathy to get her a wheelchair and let her spend a day or two trying to figure out how to get around during our daily activities.===
Is that something SHE wants to do? If so, just be sure that when she's ready to move on to something else, you let her move on without any strings attached. The fastest way to squash her interest is to try to force it to continue when she's ready to move on. Let her take what she wants from the discussion and using the wheelchair, and let it be fun!
Glenda
How old is Alora? Unless she's quite young, you should be able to talk with her about this concern and let her know that if she decides to return to public school that she'll (likely) have to test in order for the school to determine which grade she'll return to.
That said, you can't commit to unschooling if you're worried about "what if she returns to public school". If, at some point down the road, she wants to go back to public school, cross that bridge when you get to it. Unschooling is not the same as learn-at-home homeschooling, though, so some deschooling is definitely needed. That might be a challenge if your home daycare is structured in a schoolish way, though.
===We are stuck in this house for a good portion of most days, and I've always thought that unschoolers are able to do what they do because they have more opportunities to get out in the world.===
If you're doing home daycare, that job becomes a priority over unschooling while the daycare kids are there, does it not? That would certainly restrict your ability to do things spontaneously away from home with your kids. It's not unschooling that creates the restriction; the same restriction exists doing school-at-home homeschooling, or when your older daughter is in public school.
Not everything has to be done during "office hours" (or whatever hours you do daycare). Walks can happen in the evenings or even at night (if your neighborhood is safe for that). If you live near water, going to the water at night is fun and so much different than going during the day. Museums and libraries are generally open on the weekends. I know our local library is open til 9:00pm some weeknights. If you have a Walmart there, poking around Walmart at night can be interesting -- the people watching alone is interesting! Very different crowd shopping at night than in the daytime.
Instead of looking at what you can't do, look at what you CAN. If you didn't do home daycare during the day, what kinds of things would y'all do away from home? Take that info and figure out which of those things can be done other than during your business hours.
By the way, "stuck in this house" is so very negative. You *choose* to do home daycare; it allows you to be at home with your kids, even though it doesn't necessarily allow for spur-of-the-moment things away from home. What kinds of things can you make available at home to get away from that "stuck" thinking??? If it's a hot climate, see about getting some type of backyard pool -- they start from really inexpensive - or make use of a sprinkler often. Have mud fights. Plug in a box fan outside and buy a big bottle of bubbles and various bubble wands and let the kids play with those in front of the fan. Have the kids help set up an obstacle course. Find ways to make outside fun.
There were a couple years when we were a one-car family and my husband would be gone for 1-2 weeks at a time. We live in Texas and it's HOT in the summer, so going for walks or bike rides wasn't remotely appealing, and there's not public transportation near us, so my son and I spent A LOT of days-in-a-row at home. We invested in an above-ground pool - best $100 we ever spent. We had internet, netflix, and video game systems that allowed us to connect with us people. When my husband was in town, we did lots of things away from home so that by the time a week he would be away from home rolled around, my son and I were ready for a stretch of days at home. We also have relatives nearby and my son was able to spend time with various cousins several days a week. There are ways to work around that stuck feeling that can come with being mostly homebound all week.
===So, then I realized that it would be awesome for her developing empathy to get her a wheelchair and let her spend a day or two trying to figure out how to get around during our daily activities.===
Is that something SHE wants to do? If so, just be sure that when she's ready to move on to something else, you let her move on without any strings attached. The fastest way to squash her interest is to try to force it to continue when she's ready to move on. Let her take what she wants from the discussion and using the wheelchair, and let it be fun!
Glenda
Leah P
Thanks for your reply. You asked why we are stuck at home. I explained in my initial question that I run a home daycare. So, yes we get outside - we actually spend lots of time out there. We are limited to a small section of the yard that is fenced in, but we make good use of the space. We follow bugs and build things in the sand box. She swings on the swings and plays. After daycare hours I take her outside to garden with me. Usually she spends that time rolling down the hill near the garden....lol. I didn't mean to make it sound like we couldn't leave the house. We just feel a bit like caged rats sometimes - lol.
You are right that I've got to adjust my thinking. My issue with not being able to take spontaneous trips is I guess because I've just gotten the idea in my head that following the child in her learning interests would require that we are able to get out in the world and get the information that she seeks when she seeks it. Not "Well, this Saturday if you are still interested we can take a trip to <insert location> to learn more about that" She's 6...she doesn't stay interested in very much long enough to wait. So, we are missing opportunities. Using the computer is an option, but she doesn't have the patients for searching things on the internet. It's much more efficient to go to the library a find a book about what we want to know or run to a museum that has an exhibit about it. So we do use the internet if I'm fairly certain of where to find the info...otherwise she walks away saying "Nevermind" LOL
Anyway...obviously I've got lots more thinking to do about this. Thanks for the link...I'll check it out.
You are right that I've got to adjust my thinking. My issue with not being able to take spontaneous trips is I guess because I've just gotten the idea in my head that following the child in her learning interests would require that we are able to get out in the world and get the information that she seeks when she seeks it. Not "Well, this Saturday if you are still interested we can take a trip to <insert location> to learn more about that" She's 6...she doesn't stay interested in very much long enough to wait. So, we are missing opportunities. Using the computer is an option, but she doesn't have the patients for searching things on the internet. It's much more efficient to go to the library a find a book about what we want to know or run to a museum that has an exhibit about it. So we do use the internet if I'm fairly certain of where to find the info...otherwise she walks away saying "Nevermind" LOL
Anyway...obviously I've got lots more thinking to do about this. Thanks for the link...I'll check it out.
--- In [email protected], "Kelly Halldorson" <kelly@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Here's the question - My big concern is that we'll commit to unschooling and then she'll decide to go back to public school next >year and won't have learned yet the stuff that she'll need in order to transition back in. I'm also concerned that I can't with my >schedule unschool successfully.
>
> If you continue to think about things this way it's just not going to work right, act more as though the school doesn't exist.
>
> >I can't just up and go to the museum or a library to learn more about something she's interested in. We can't go for nature walks >every day.
>
> Can you look things up online when you are home? Can you hang out in your backyard? Can you schedule a trip to the library? Can you find television programs and/or movies that are of interest to her? Are you able to engage with her in conversation when you are home?
>
> >We are stuck in this house for a good portion of most days,
>
> Why?
>
> >and I've always thought that unschoolers are able to do
> >what they do because they have more opportunities to get out in the world.
>
> A couple of months ago we were without a vehicle. We stayed home most of the time. If there was somewhere we needed or wanted to go we found a way to get there...or at least get the kids the opportunity to get there. Often times there are options you didn't ever think of.
>
> I think of "can't" much like Sandra wrote about "have to's"
>
> http://sandradodd.com/haveto
>
> Peace,
> Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Leah P
Alora is 6 years old. My home daycare is not structured in a schoolish way. We are pretty loosey goosey around here. The kids eat and nap on a regular schedule but the rest of the day is up in the air. So, homeschooling the way that we do it is fairly easy around them. It's no different really than a large family. I only have 3 children besides my own enrolled in my daycare. It works well with homeschooling the way that we do it...and i guess i could figure out how to make it work with unschooling. So, yes, the daycare would have to take priority over unschooling in that diapers need to be changed, tummies need to be fed and naps need to be had. Other than that, the daycare kids can do whatever it is that we are doing.
I do understand that not everything has to be done during my daycare day. I'm repeating what I wrote in another post now, but I just thought that in order to unschool and follow the child we'd need the freedom to seek out the knowledge that she desires. Depending on the internet is just not something that will work for us at this point.
Anyway, thanks very much for your response. It's just going to take some thinking on my part, I guess. At the very least this thread has helped me to refocus my energy. I do have a somewhat negative attitude about our situation....and if nothing else - that needs to change!
Thanks!
Leah
I do understand that not everything has to be done during my daycare day. I'm repeating what I wrote in another post now, but I just thought that in order to unschool and follow the child we'd need the freedom to seek out the knowledge that she desires. Depending on the internet is just not something that will work for us at this point.
Anyway, thanks very much for your response. It's just going to take some thinking on my part, I guess. At the very least this thread has helped me to refocus my energy. I do have a somewhat negative attitude about our situation....and if nothing else - that needs to change!
Thanks!
Leah
--- In [email protected], "wtexans" <wtexans@...> wrote:
>
> ===My big concern is that we'll commit to unschooling and then she'll decide to go back to public school next year and won't have learned yet the stuff that she'll need in order to transition back in.===
>
> How old is Alora? Unless she's quite young, you should be able to talk with her about this concern and let her know that if she decides to return to public school that she'll (likely) have to test in order for the school to determine which grade she'll return to.
>
> That said, you can't commit to unschooling if you're worried about "what if she returns to public school". If, at some point down the road, she wants to go back to public school, cross that bridge when you get to it. Unschooling is not the same as learn-at-home homeschooling, though, so some deschooling is definitely needed. That might be a challenge if your home daycare is structured in a schoolish way, though.
>
>
> ===We are stuck in this house for a good portion of most days, and I've always thought that unschoolers are able to do what they do because they have more opportunities to get out in the world.===
>
> If you're doing home daycare, that job becomes a priority over unschooling while the daycare kids are there, does it not? That would certainly restrict your ability to do things spontaneously away from home with your kids. It's not unschooling that creates the restriction; the same restriction exists doing school-at-home homeschooling, or when your older daughter is in public school.
>
> Not everything has to be done during "office hours" (or whatever hours you do daycare). Walks can happen in the evenings or even at night (if your neighborhood is safe for that). If you live near water, going to the water at night is fun and so much different than going during the day. Museums and libraries are generally open on the weekends. I know our local library is open til 9:00pm some weeknights. If you have a Walmart there, poking around Walmart at night can be interesting -- the people watching alone is interesting! Very different crowd shopping at night than in the daytime.
>
> Instead of looking at what you can't do, look at what you CAN. If you didn't do home daycare during the day, what kinds of things would y'all do away from home? Take that info and figure out which of those things can be done other than during your business hours.
>
> By the way, "stuck in this house" is so very negative. You *choose* to do home daycare; it allows you to be at home with your kids, even though it doesn't necessarily allow for spur-of-the-moment things away from home. What kinds of things can you make available at home to get away from that "stuck" thinking??? If it's a hot climate, see about getting some type of backyard pool -- they start from really inexpensive - or make use of a sprinkler often. Have mud fights. Plug in a box fan outside and buy a big bottle of bubbles and various bubble wands and let the kids play with those in front of the fan. Have the kids help set up an obstacle course. Find ways to make outside fun.
>
> There were a couple years when we were a one-car family and my husband would be gone for 1-2 weeks at a time. We live in Texas and it's HOT in the summer, so going for walks or bike rides wasn't remotely appealing, and there's not public transportation near us, so my son and I spent A LOT of days-in-a-row at home. We invested in an above-ground pool - best $100 we ever spent. We had internet, netflix, and video game systems that allowed us to connect with us people. When my husband was in town, we did lots of things away from home so that by the time a week he would be away from home rolled around, my son and I were ready for a stretch of days at home. We also have relatives nearby and my son was able to spend time with various cousins several days a week. There are ways to work around that stuck feeling that can come with being mostly homebound all week.
>
>
> ===So, then I realized that it would be awesome for her developing empathy to get her a wheelchair and let her spend a day or two trying to figure out how to get around during our daily activities.===
>
> Is that something SHE wants to do? If so, just be sure that when she's ready to move on to something else, you let her move on without any strings attached. The fastest way to squash her interest is to try to force it to continue when she's ready to move on. Let her take what she wants from the discussion and using the wheelchair, and let it be fun!
>
> Glenda
>
Kelly Halldorson
>>I only have 3 children besides my own enrolled in my daycare.I'm sorry I missed that.
>>It works well with homeschooling the way that we do it...and i guess i could figure out how to make it work with unschooling. So, yes, the daycare would have to take priority over unschooling in that diapers need to be changed, tummies need to be fed and naps need to be had. Other than that, the daycare kids can do whatever it is that we are doing.I agree. I would try and look at things more like I was unschooling all of them. Try and make sure the daycare doesn't take priority over your own kids. I used to do childcare when my kids were little and found that was a constant struggle. I had to remind myself all the time that the reason I was doing the childcare was so that I could be home with them. At one point it just got to be too much and I found something else to do...while they were sleeping (web work & graphics) so I could be more attentive to my own children's needs during the day.
>>I do understand that not everything has to be done during my daycare day. I'm repeating what I wrote in another post now, but I just thought that in order to unschool and follow the child we'd need the freedom to seek out the knowledge that she desires. Depending on the internet is just not something that will work for us at this point.Maybe when she has something she is interested in and you can't leave then...maybe you can both go over to the calendar and pick a day to go and write it down right then. Keep the calendar out and she can see it and/or write things on it herself. Or draw pictures ; ) if she is not writing yet.
>>Anyway, thanks very much for your response. It's just going to take some thinking on my part, I guess. At the very least this thread has helped me to refocus my energy. I do have a somewhat negative attitude about our situation....and if nothing else - that needs to change!Cool.
peace,
Kelly
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